Looking for some input on Stubbs

[cguarino30]

This is Stubby. She was purchased as a problem feeder, but it turned out she just didn't like pinkies. She's been pounding chick thighs ever since. It was pointed out to me at the time that she had kind of an odd body shape, and over the last year or so, this has become even more apparent. I half expected her to keel over dead at some point during the year, but she seems as healthy as ever. She is almost a year old, eats well, is healthy in every way, but despite her age and weighing 50 grams, she's only 16 inches long. Anybody have any thoughts on this? is she extra thick or extra short? Has anyone ever heard of any kind of genetic dwarfism in corns (or any other snake for that matter)? Any input, knowledge, or wildly speculative conjecture is greatly appreciated. Thanks.

 

[albertagirl]

Very different and interesting. My 50g boy is 26 inches. Can't wait to see what others say.

 

[hypnoctopus]

I have never heard of anything like that. She sure is cute, all short and stubby.

 

[cguarino30]

Very different and interesting. My 50g boy is 26 inches. Can't wait to see what others say.

That's a very useful frame of reference. Thanks. How wide would you say he is?

 

[cguarino30]

I have never heard of anything like that. She sure is cute, all short and stubby.

Thanks. I like her too. I was surprised to see her make it through the year, but now that she has, I really hope she goes the distance. I can't find any other issues with her. Eats, grows, poops, sheds fine. Aside from the obvious abnormality, she's the picture of health.

 

[albertagirl]

That's a very useful frame of reference. Thanks. How wide would you say he is?

I don't know the etiquette around posting pictures on other people's threads, so I posted the picture on my thread, and here is the link to it.
http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1690986#post1690986

It's a picture of him on a ruler so that you can estimate his width. This picture was taken June 24th, and he hit 50 grams July 4th if I remember correctly. He will also be a year old at the end of the month, so about the same age as yours as well.
By the way, I think Stubbs is the cutest little anomaly.

 

[cguarino30]

That's very helpful, thanks. So he's about a half inch wide if I'm looking at that correctly. Ill have to try to get a width on her soon, but I expect it to be similar. Proportionally, they look about the same, just the length issue.

And for the record, please feel free to post anything you like. Etiquette is of little consequence here. Haha.

 

[albertagirl]

Yes, I think that's about right.

 

[LMS68]

What a pretty girl!

 

[cguarino30]

Thanks.

So, she shed out last night and I decided to take a few more photos. She was definitely a little more cooperative today now that she's shed. It looks as though she's a hair wider than normal, at about 9/16 of an inch wide, but still, that's not a tremendous deviation. I got a good shot of her lined up against a measuring tape (I told you she was being cooperative today) and it looks like she's a little over my 16" estimate. She might be as much as 17 inches, but still, substantially shorter than normal.

Another thing I managed to get a good shot of is that her tail looks fairly normal. Right at the cloaca, everything tapers off dramatically, and her tail seems as normal and gracile as any other yearling corn's would be. In comparison to the rest of her body, it almost looks as though it doesn't belong.

Something else that I noticed while working with her today as that she doesn't appear to be as agile as a normal corn snake. It seems as though she has less range of motion and is less capable of climbing type behaviors. It doesn't affect her day to day, as she is more than limber enough to turn around and constrict prey, but when manipulating her to get her to be hanging over corners and things, there was a tendency for her to lose grip or start to fall. Obviously, I was always careful to catch her before she really fell, but I think she wouldn't be as good as a normal corn at say, climbing up branches. Not sure if that's a separate issue (more rigid spine, perhaps) or just a secondary effect of being so much shorter (less area with which to grip and bend).

 

[crackerhead]

An x-ray of her spine would be very helpful. Maybe she isn't a dwarf but has a compressed spine or is missing some vertebrae?
Can you ask the breeder if they observed any other sibs displaying the same features?
Terri

 

[cguarino30]

I'll ask to be sure, but I'm fairly certain she was one of a kind. I had also considered a spinal compression or similar situation (like with balloon mollies). Though I would have assumed that something like that would be very evident in a snake, as it usually causes curvature of the spine, and she doesn't have any kinks.

Fewer vertebrae could definitely be it, though.

I'll post the breeder's answer when I get it.

 

[cguarino30]

Heard back from the breeder. Out of three breedings, there were no other offspring of this type.

 

[DollysMom]

There is no reason that there can't be dwarf snakes. I agree that it would be interesting to see what her internals are like, but if she's not otherwise sick there is probably no good reason to put her through that. I think that her lack of agility in certain ways, does point to an anomaly of some kind. She's a beauty but she definitely is different.

Am glad she has a good home with someone who is experienced and can tell if she's getting too fat, etc., vs just what is a normal body shape for her.

 

[hypnoctopus]

I checked some of my records and two of my snakes were 25 inches when he was 53 grams, and she was 24.5 inches at 51 grams. The tail on your snake looks normal, but unless she really had to poop in your pictures, the drop from body to tail is very dramatic.

 

[cguarino30]

There is no reason that there can't be dwarf snakes. I agree that it would be interesting to see what her internals are like, but if she's not otherwise sick there is probably no good reason to put her through that. I think that her lack of agility in certain ways, does point to an anomaly of some kind. She's a beauty but she definitely is different.

Am glad she has a good home with someone who is experienced and can tell if she's getting too fat, etc., vs just what is a normal body shape for her.

Thanks. I do remember thinking I wished she was amel when she was younger, so that I could hold her up to a bright light and check out her internals, haha, but I agree that an xray, while it would certainly be informative, is probably a bit excessive if not medically necessary.

I checked some of my records and two of my snakes were 25 inches when he was 53 grams, and she was 24.5 inches at 51 grams. The tail on your snake looks normal, but unless she really had to poop in your pictures, the drop from body to tail is very dramatic.

Thanks, that certainly helps as a frame of reference. And there was a fresh one in there, so I don't think she has to poop. Also, she looks like this all the time, despite defecating regularly and normally, so I'm assuming it's just another part of whatever her condition is.

 

[DollysMom]

I checked some of my records and two of my snakes were 25 inches when he was 53 grams, and she was 24.5 inches at 51 grams. The tail on your snake looks normal, but unless she really had to poop in your pictures, the drop from body to tail is very dramatic.

You know, I've often thought that a big old thread with lengths and weights, and ages if you have it, would be useful. Just to add a data point my snake is 28 grams and 22 inches. I don't have an age. The point is he or she is 20 grams lighter but 5 inches longer. More data points like these would help start to develop graphs where anyone could see where their snake lies.

 

[cguarino30]

You know, I've often thought that a big old thread with lengths and weights, and ages if you have it, would be useful. Just to add a data point my snake is 28 grams and 22 inches. I don't have an age. The point is he or she is 20 grams lighter but 5 inches longer. More data points like these would help start to develop graphs where anyone could see where their snake lies.

Like growth charts for babies. Makes sense. And one would expect a little deviation here or there, but Stubbs would be way off the curve no matter who you put on it.

 

[Lightning]

I agree with DollysMom; I searched for such a thread late last year when I first acquired my corn snake. I found individual statistics in several posts, but no collection of data.

 

[DollysMom]

Stubbs fascinates me. The more and more I look at the side picture where her tail joins her body, I notice the huge break in the side stripe. It goes from wide to almost non existent. It almost looks like her tail is glued on at that point after a chunk, a part that would taper to the tail, was taken out of her body. I'm no good at morphs and don't know what her's is. Can someone else with a similar snake morph/pattern take a pic of that part of the body to compare? Of course I can't say why, but to me that's a what.