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An Educational Opportunity

tyflier

tyflier

[Insert Witty Commentary]
Last night, in a borrowed car, my girlfriend, my daughter and myself were driving back to my house on a backroad we often see snakes on. We rolled up on this guy, obviously hit, but still alive:
arrival.jpg


Of course, this is a borrwed vehicle...so we have no hooks, no tongs, no bags...nothing. There isn't a single tool with which to work this snake off the road, and I can see he is writhing around.

I grabbed a stick and tried to move his head out from under his body and he made a very lazy, obviously painful strike at me:
strike.jpg

This shot was pure luck...You can see the esophagus, the Jacobson's organ, the tongue, the throat, and the fangs all in one shot.

Not wanting to miss an opprtunity with my daughter, I decided that this guy was not a serious threat, even though he was alive, so I pinned his head with the stick and went in for "the grab":
pickup.jpg

Now...I NEVER do this. This is absolutely the first time I have ever tried to grab the head of a rattlesnake. My daughter was VERY upset with me. But she wanted to see the fangs, so I explained to her that this snake was very close to being dead, his head had been run over on one side, and that I was safe.

Than...we had the opportunity to get up close and personal with this guy:
fang1.jpg

fang2.jpg


It was very sad to see such a BEAUTIFUL sub-adult Panamint rattlesnake writhing in pain, but I couldn't have asked for a better opportunity to show my daughter those fangs, and let her see why these animals are to be respected. She was enthralled with the fangs as they stuck out, and she was uber-excited to be able to witness this animal...her first adult-size rattler. It was sad that this animal finally succumbed to his injuries while still in my hand...but it was an experience I wouldn't trade. I'm sorry he had to die...but I'm glad we had the chance to see him and observe him.

Thanks for Looking!
 
Unfortunate that he didn't make it :(
It's cool that you were able to just grab it, and check it out while it was incapacitated. Thank you for sharing :D
 
Too kewl!! Congrats on the seizing the Educational Opportunity.

At this time, I am telling my 12 year old son to NEVER grab a rattler... under any circumstances!!!! I'm sure you told your daughter the same... LOL.
 
The_Thunderer said:
Too kewl!! Congrats on the seizing the Educational Opportunity.

At this time, I am telling my 12 year old son to NEVER grab a rattler... under any circumstances!!!! I'm sure you told your daughter the same... LOL.
Click to expand...

Yea...she knows. She loves snakes, but she has a very healthy respect for rattlesnakes. She loves finding them...she just stays back and observes from a distance...which is precisely as it should be, for now.

She also knows that this activity is not something that I condone. She's never seen me do it before, and may never see it again. I frankly have no interest in becoming comfortable with handling hots with anything less than a hook...
 
While I realize that it was an educational opportunity for you, that snake probably couldn't have been in more pain while it was in your hands. It would have been better if you had found some way to completely kill it first before picking it up as it was dying, I think, and more humane.
 
What a great way to illustrate, tyflier, just HOW CLOSE the fangs can get to your fingers, even when holding the head properly.

Even though the snake died, I know seeing these pics would sure make me think twice before grabbing a venomous snake like that!
 
tesiacoil said:
While I realize that it was an educational opportunity for you, that snake probably couldn't have been in more pain while it was in your hands. It would have been better if you had found some way to completely kill it first before picking it up as it was dying, I think, and more humane.
Click to expand...
The snake died in my hands. The only option I had for killing it any quicker was to run it over with the truck, and I thought that would be far too gruesome with my daughter there. Had I been alone, I probably would have simply run it over to completely kill it, and then thrown it off to the side to be consumed later. But with my daughter there, I would not smash it with a rock, or run it over with the truck. While you and I, as adults, can understand that it truly would have been more humane, I seriously doubt my daughter would be able to forgive me had she seen me act in a way that to her is very cruel. She's only 4, and does not yet comprehend the ideals of humane. Someday she will...but not yet.

Drewby07 said:
What a great way to illustrate, tyflier, just HOW CLOSE the fangs can get to your fingers, even when holding the head properly.

Even though the snake died, I know seeing these pics would sure make me think twice before grabbing a venomous snake like that!
Click to expand...

Yea...it's definitely dangerous stuff, and something I definitely DO NOT CONDONE!! I believe the pictures have fore-shortened the perception a little bit, as my thumb is more than an inch from the fang tip...though it certainly does appear much closer in the photo.

In hindsight, this is something that I probably won't be doing again. It was a great experience and a great bit of education...but it's very risky, and not something I anticipate doing again...
 
I can't really be one to talk when it comes to educational purposes though. I do work in a research laboratory, and we do experiments on rats, and me being a vegetarian it was a big decision for me to take the job to decide to do this, but in the end I believe it's for a better, more beneficial cause.

I understand you not wanting to kill it in front of your daughter. Still, it makes me very sad to see it suffering and bleeding, and you can understand why I feel so badly for the snake. At the same time, I'm glad she got to see something so cool and herself, didn't understand the level of it's suffering.
 
It was awsome that you took the time to educate your daughter about these great creatures. Most people would'nt have even thaught of doing that. That beauty served its purpose with the help of a great father
 
Drewby07 said:
What a great way to illustrate, tyflier, just HOW CLOSE the fangs can get to your fingers, even when holding the head properly.

Even though the snake died, I know seeing these pics would sure make me think twice before grabbing a venomous snake like that!
Click to expand...

ye very true only tonight i was watching a programme about vipers and often they will bite through there bottom jaw in order to strike the person handling them.... just goes to show u always have to be on your guard with them
 
Chris, what are your temps? Do you still have active snakes on the roads?

You knew that complaint was coming didn't you? You're guttsy
 
wade said:
Chris, what are your temps? Do you still have active snakes on the roads?

You knew that complaint was coming didn't you? You're guttsy
Click to expand...

It's cooooooold here. It's been in the single digits at night, and only the low to mid 30's during the day.

I haven't seen an active snake on the roads since mid-October.

The complaints here are nothing compared to what was thrown at me on another forum specifically for field herping. You woulda thunk I had my fingers wrapped around the fang to hold a writhing snake...these guys here were tame...;)

The funny part of the whole things was...the people that were most adamant and derogatory towards me for these pictures...all had been bitten in the past. I guess they wanted to show me that it can happen to anyone, but...I found it amusing that all of their stories started with "The time I got bit...".
 
I do feel bad for the snake :( Poor guy, I hate seeing animals suffer. I am glad you got to educate your daughter a bit though..
 
well everyone says its in pain. but ive been told when i was a kid that snakes dont really focus pain and senses like that. like it can sit on a hot rock and get its belly burnt without it knowing and such. and other snakes in the wild i see are constantly kinked with bad vertebra and they dont even seem to notice or care. so how are we to know it feels pain. yes it could, but im just going what my uncle told me when i was a kid. but good decision to teach her up close and personal. best way to learn
 
pwargcm said:
well everyone says its in pain. but ive been told when i was a kid that snakes dont really focus pain and senses like that. like it can sit on a hot rock and get its belly burnt without it knowing and such. and other snakes in the wild i see are constantly kinked with bad vertebra and they dont even seem to notice or care. so how are we to know it feels pain. yes it could, but im just going what my uncle told me when i was a kid. but good decision to teach her up close and personal. best way to learn
Click to expand...

As far as we know, snakes and other reptiles do not process pain in the same manner as mammals. But really, it's a matter of conjecture. It's nearly impossible to prove one way or the other. We do know that they do not react to painful stimuli the same as mammals do, and that is about all we know. That doesn't mean they don't feel pain...it just means they feel it differently...
 
tyflier said:
As far as we know, snakes and other reptiles do not process pain in the same manner as mammals. But really, it's a matter of conjecture. It's nearly impossible to prove one way or the other. We do know that they do not react to painful stimuli the same as mammals do, and that is about all we know. That doesn't mean they don't feel pain...it just means they feel it differently...
Click to expand...

ahhh. that would make a bit more sense. thanks for explaining that. lol. i learn a lot of new stuff everyday.
 
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