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The US flag is offensive ...

Camby said:
Too many times, too many times in fact, people speak out of ignorance rather than knowledge. Ricky, your statement quoted above may be the most ignorant in this entire thread.
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Geez, I hope so!. I don't make ignorant statements like that to come in 2nd place. Seriously; I stated it offended me. Clearly you have an opinion and that's fine, but the Confederate flag is offensive to me. The "learn your history" argument is redundant, and I will never appreciate or respect any of what that flag stands for. You can't tell me that flag wasn't a symbol of the Southern Confederacy, and you can't tell me the Southern Confederacy wasn't willing to go to war to maintain slavery. It was designed in the appeasement of a racist institution, period!.
 
Vetusvates, I take it you have not read anything I've posted since that post you are quoting. Please do. I've answered all those questions already.
 
Nova_C said:
Vetusvates, I take it you have not read anything I've posted since that post you are quoting. Please do. I've answered all those questions already.
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Nova, I have been reading all of this silliness, much of which was my own contribution, all along.
But I had to say what I had to say to underline the pettiness and lack of foundation of your argument.....because you so militantly insist on hanging on to this narrow, shallow, small, over-simplified idea of what you have stereotypically imprinted in your own mind regarding the silly confederate flag.
We've tried to DE-demonize the darn thing for you, but you resist in a very unenlightened jejune manner.
I honestly insist on thinking more highly of you than this.
 
Ricky87 said:
Geez, I hope so!. I don't make ignorant statements like that to come in 2nd place. Seriously; I stated it offended me. Clearly you have an opinion and that's fine, but the Confederate flag is offensive to me. The "learn your history" argument is redundant, and I will never appreciate or respect any of what that flag stands for. You can't tell me that flag wasn't a symbol of the Southern Confederacy, and you can't tell me the Southern Confederacy wasn't willing to go to war to maintain slavery. It was designed in the appeasement of a racist institution, period!.
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No they weren't willing to go to war to maintain slavery. Slavery was not an issue in the beginning of the war. That was already stated. My ancestor DID NOT own slaves! Not a one! Yet he fought anyway! Explain that one to me,please? Eric's ancestors DID NOT own slaves yet fought anyway! Why? Could it be the Civil War was about more than the right to own slaves? If our ancestors didn't own them anyway then surely they would've cared less about fighting for the right to own them,right? And yes, it was a symbol of the Southern Confederacy, nobody has argued that.

Oh what the heck!! I guess I may as well go get a big 'ol Confederate Flag tattooed across my chest with the words "Big 'ol Racist Southern!" under it! I'll take pics when it's done by of course someone drinking out of Budweiser can while doing it out of his garage with an ink pen and sewing needle!
 
I'll give my lowly reply from my smalltown Wisconsin point of view. I probably won't reply after though, as this thread is getting a little too heated/serious for my liking.

I don't mind people who use the confederate flag as a symbol of the south, a symbol of their southern roots, pride etc... However it should also be noted that not everyone is as good natured as all us fine folks, and I have seen it also used outright as a symbol of bigotry. And by that I don't mean that that is how I interpreted it...I mean that is how that person or person's intended it to be taken. I've seen it waved in front of a black kids face in school (yes in school), I've seen people in trucks laden with the confederate flag as they drove down the street shouting the N word.

So no matter how we look at it, some people are going to use the confederate flag as a symbol of hate. However, I don't think that means the confederate flag is bad. I don't dislike the flag for what it is, but rather I dislike the people who use it for their hate-filled purposes. There are many symbols that are used in different ways...be they good, bad, or neutral. The symbol itself means nothing...it is the meaning the person using it attributes to it.

I don't use the flag myself in any means, because I don't have a connection to it...I'm a native american from the far north that I'm practically in Canada. But like I said I don't see anything wrong with the people who do have a connection to it and use it as a symbol in terms of their southern roots, etc...
 
Ricky87 said:
Geez, I hope so!. I don't make ignorant statements like that to come in 2nd place. Seriously; I stated it offended me. Clearly you have an opinion and that's fine, but the Confederate flag is offensive to me. The "learn your history" argument is redundant, and I will never appreciate or respect any of what that flag stands for. You can't tell me that flag wasn't a symbol of the Southern Confederacy, and you can't tell me the Southern Confederacy wasn't willing to go to war to maintain slavery. It was designed in the appeasement of a racist institution, period!.
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And Ricky,...you! You are a great and witty guy. If you really really do find that "symbol" offensive,...well I guess I can and have to accept that.
But I really wish it did not offend you. I honestly never think about the confederate flag. Don't own one, never have. I do think about slavery, and what an awful thing it was. My german professor used that often enough as so relatively recent an example of cruelty on this side of the Atlantic.
I really do wish it did not bother you, though.
Gosh, I may do other things that bother people and they just never tell me.
Now that bothers me. I am totally serious.
 
ZoologyGirl said:
I'll give my lowly reply from my smalltown Wisconsin point of view. I probably won't reply after though, as this thread is getting a little too heated/serious for my liking.

I don't mind people who use the confederate flag as a symbol of the south, a symbol of their southern roots, pride etc... However it should also be noted that not everyone is as good natured as all us fine folks, and I have seen it also used outright as a symbol of bigotry. And by that I don't mean that that is how I interpreted it...I mean that is how that person or person's intended it to be taken. I've seen it waved in front of a black kids face in school (yes in school), I've seen people in trucks laden with the confederate flag as they drove down the street shouting the N word.

So no matter how we look at it, some people are going to use the confederate flag as a symbol of hate. However, I don't think that means the confederate flag is bad. I don't dislike the flag for what it is, but rather I dislike the people who use it for their hate-filled purposes. There are many symbols that are used in different ways...be they good, bad, or neutral. The symbol itself means nothing...it is the meaning the person using it attributes to it.

I don't use the flag myself in any means, because I don't have a connection to it...I'm a native american from the far north that I'm practically in Canada. But like I said I don't see anything wrong with the people who do have a connection to it and use it as a symbol in terms of their southern roots, etc...
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Thank you, Heather. Well said.
You have given out too much Reputation in the last 24 hours, try again later.
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vetusvates said:
Gosh, I may do other things that bother people and they just never tell me. Now that bothers me.
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The way your hair is done in your avatar really bothers me...it looks so stiff, like it's made of stone, too much hairspray I think :grin01: :laugh:
 
I've repped too much within the last 24 hours to offer any to Zoology girl. Good post and I hear ya!

This thread really infuriates me... I had a whole thing written up, but don't feel that I can write it eloquently enough... and don't feel like it'll make a hill of beans to anyone anyway so I deleted it.

This thread and the way lines can be drawn so quickly on either side doesn't give me much hope for mankind and therefore my children and I want a good future for them.

Again, the ONLY way we can truly overcome such disdain for each other is to try to NOT interpret the intentions of each other. To try to see things from each others POV. To walk a mile in each other's shoes. It really is a shame that we can't.

LOL... Perhaps I should just spend my time on FB and let my mind rot while playing those silly games. LOL.
 
Just a case in point that the way you interpret or attach meaning to something may not be the meaning the person uses it attributes to it.

Snakes.

There are people out there who attach devilry, evil, satan, etc.. to snakes. I'm sure all of us on the forum do not see it this way...but there you have it. Does that make us who own this 'symbol' bad, because that's how some people view it? Absolutely not. Likewise, just because you may view something as bad (as in some people viewing the confederate flag as bad), doesn't mean that is how the person using it views it :) Things just get lost in translation.
 
MmHm! I said the same thing in one of my earlier posts! Like I said,I'm sure every single one of us is offending SOMEBODY out there with our snakes and images of snakes. We are probably viewed by some others as devil worsippers,satan's children,what-have-you. But I know I'm not and I guess that's all that matters. I refuse to be stereo-typed!
 
Don't give up on us too quick, Fred.
I honestly have been racking my brain trying to figure what words or symbols would elicit anger and/or revulsion in me. In a socio-cultural context.
My mind drifts to being gay. Something that society in general prefers to use the "Don't Ask Don't Tell" policy on. Many even here on this forum. Sometimes in life, one can feel the tension as if it could be cut by a knife. Oh, but nothing must be said.....
Even if a gentle word or jest would offset the awkwardness.
Growing up was a difficult and elegant exercise in not heaping hate onto people or symbols.
If I disliked or resented everyone in the world who disliked, disapproved of, or hated me for who I am.....I would have a very small population to fall back on. If I took aphorisms or epithets to heart, I would be a mean, bitter person.
It brings me peace to diffuse and 'un-demonize' cruel words and hateful stereotypes.
That's just my humble attempt to empathize.
 
MinLynn said:
And Eric,it really bothers me that you won't wear a big cornsnake pendant to work! ;)
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DYK, well...I am the boss, so I suppose I could do worse. :D
I've had my employees walk into my office with a big giant bloodred or ATB on my computer screen at CS.com, and look at me kind of funny. But then ask..."what are you looking at?.....tell me about it"......
 
So it's okay that my brother and his boyfriend encourage me to tease them about being gay?! LOL! Well, not really tease but......okay,here's an example:

A couple of nights ago,while they were visiting with me and my kids, my youngest was being extremely obnoxious and I said I was sending him over to their house for a week. Tristan then looked at me and said "Sorry hon, we don't recruit anymore." I died laughing! Why? Because they were able to make fun of the stereo-typing!
 
vetusvates said:
Don't give up on us too quick, Fred.
I honestly have been racking my brain trying to figure what words or symbols would elicit anger and/or revulsion in me. In a socio-cultural context.
My mind drifts to being gay. Something that society in general prefers to use the "Don't Ask Don't Tell" policy on. Many even here on this forum. Sometimes in life, one can feel the tension as if it could be cut by a knife. Oh, but nothing must be said.....
Even if a gentle word or jest would offset the awkwardness.
Growing up was a difficult and elegant exercise in not heaping hate onto people or symbols.
If I disliked or resented everyone in the world who disliked, disapproved of, or hated me for who I am.....I would have a very small population to fall back on. If I took aphorisms or epithets to heart, I would be a mean, bitter person.
It brings me peace to diffuse and 'un-demonize' cruel words and hateful stereotypes.
That's just my humble attempt to empathize.
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I hear ya, Eric... its just that threads like this one... where arguments are so circular and WE KNOW they'll be circular just go on and on. LOL.

If I disliked or resented everyone in the world who disliked, disapproved of, or hated me for who I am.....I would have a very small population to fall back on. If I took aphorisms or epithets to heart, I would be a mean, bitter person.
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Sometimes, I feel like this is where I'm heading - many people have recently called me a very mean person. LOL. Fortunately, I still have the ability to come back around and apologize for some small rudeness that I've offered - but it is getting harder and harder to do so. LOL.

Anyway, I do know this... there were REASONS for me to avoid political threads and threads like this. :laugh:
 
The_Thunderer said:
where arguments are so circular and WE KNOW they'll be circular just go on and on. LOL.
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Reminds me of a song
lambchop.jpg
 
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