Studies on dog behavior!

[Michael823]

These are great reads for those who may be unsure or unaware of these particular dog behavior studies, and proper training philosophies. I found them to be very informative, and thought some here might too.

Debunking the dominance myth.

http://dogpublic.com/articles/article.aspx?sid=14&pid=1640

Punishment.

http://www.understandingdogs.net/lib/File/AVSAB_punishment.pdf

Dog aggression.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/02/090217141540.htm

 

[Lennycorn]

Cool I have to read up on this...

Thanks

 

[Ricky87]

This is the sugar!!!.

 

[mike17l]

Here are some more:

For your reading and listening pleasure. I'm sure you won't, but oh well.
http://www.familydogs.com/informationPage.asp?whichOne=4
http://www.pacesettertrainingkennel.com/electric_collar.htm
http://www.uwsp.edu/PSYCH/dog/LA/castle3.htm
http://leerburg.com/qaelectric.htm

 

[mike17l]

I typed in "dog training" in the ol google machine. Here are links to the first 10 or so, some of them may not have anything to do with anything, but some may.

http://www.dog-obedience-training-review.com/
http://www.uwsp.edu/psych/dog/dog.htm
http://www.dogproblems.com/
http://www.sitmeanssit.com/
http://www.freedogtraininginfo.com/
http://www.dogtraininghq.com/
http://dogtrainingreviewblog.com/
http://dogtrainingways.com/
http://animal.discovery.com/tv/its-me-or-dog/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog_training

and this one I looked up for ya:
http://www.cesarmillaninc.com/

 

[Drizzt80]

Don't forget the millan videos showing him choking the crap outa dogs!!

Here's your wonderful Millan:
http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/series/dog-whisperer/3252/Overview#tab-Videos/05198_00

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAJkFhOw6p4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfZMVzckClE

D80

 

[Drizzt80]

Here are some more:

Those were really good too Mike. I read through all of them and they gave very very good information, probably the best, about using e-collars and how effective and harmless they truly are to the dog. One of the links also has audio podcasts that talks you through the steps necessary.

I had a friend once, happens to be a professional horse trainer, that told me everything I need to know about training dogs. He's a master in his field and so am I now because I breathed the same air he did for about 20 minutes. I know everything there is to know about training dogs, really, go ahead ask me. I'll tell you I am.

D80

 

[Drizzt80]

For those that would actually like to read a book: (novel idea I know!!)
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=Richard+Wolters&x=0&y=0

One of the best!
D80

 

[Drizzt80]

Hey Mike, maybe this new thread will help get your question answered . . .

You make mention of "failure" or "set backs", how would you, using only "positive reinforcement", train a dog to not go up to a rattlesnake? In South Texas, Western Diamondbacks are very prevalent, it is essential to the life of the dog that they do not put their face (or other body part) in a rattlesnake's strike zone. The only way I have ever effectively seen a dog learn to flee from a rattlesnake is with the use of an e-collar and negative reinforcement. Now I am not going to say that I have seen more dogs trained than you, because well that would be arrogant of me, but I will say that I have seen many many dogs trained to avoid snakes, as well as I have trained many dogs to avoid snakes. The fact is, the only effective way to "snake break" a dog is with the use of an e-collar. A rattlesnake will very rarely give a dog a second chance.

:shrugs:
D80

 

[Drizzt80]

This is the sugar!!!.

No, this is sugar:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sugar

http://www.sugar.org/

http://www.naturalnews.com/sugar.html

http://www.healingdaily.com/detoxification-diet/sugar.htm

Sugar is really bad for you. I should know because I used to work in a sugar factory. I had a friend once who told me everything I needed to know about sugar (and dog training), and really you shouldn't be throwing around the word sugar like that just happenstance. It's really a drag on society to do that. Just ask me anything you'd like to know about sugar I can tell you that I know everything about it.

D80

 

[Drizzt80]

Did you know a spoonful of sugar doesn't really make the medicine go down? That was just some stupid song written by the elitist republican government at the time to further sugar sales in the country because they owned stock in them? Really. A friend told me.

D80

 

[Michael823]

I posted information and an actual formulated opinion about training through my experience and success with positive reinforcement training, and to Mike's credit (I thank you very much by the way) he posted actual information and opinions on his method of training, as opposed to criticism and sarcasm.

 

[diamondlil]

I got confused on the other thread (In which i only actually wanted to see the puppy). Which of you is going to become a dog trainer?

 

[Drizzt80]

Sugar Ray Leonard was THE best boxer hands down, ever, all time. No question about it and you can't tell me there was anyone better. I should know, I used to train with the best of the best. Muhammad Ali wouldn't have been Cassius Clay if it wasn't for Sugar Ray. Tyson? Hah! He was a chicken. Sugar Ray was the Leonard of Tommy Hearns.

D80

 

[Michael823]

Hey Mike, maybe this new thread will help get your question answered . . .


:shrugs:
D80

Surprise, another "answer the question speech". I think I have thoroughly explained my position on training, please share actual training tips and sources of information of your own if you would like to be heard.

Don't forget the millan videos showing him choking the crap outa dogs!!
D80

I don't agree with all of Caesars methods, but he knows dog behavior, and rehabilitates dogs with great success. He works with otherwise dangerous dogs, and sometimes extremes are necessary to curb dangerous behaviors. I was debating the use of negative reinforcement tools to train a puppy, which you provided little to no insight of your own on, then expect people to think you know how to be a "pack leader" and can properly use an e-collar.

Sugar Ray Leonard was THE best boxer hands down, ever, all time. No question about it and you can't tell me there was anyone better. I should know, I used to train with the best of the best. Muhammad Ali wouldn't have been Cassius Clay if it wasn't for Sugar Ray. Tyson? Hah! He was a chicken. Sugar Ray was the Leonard of Tommy Hearns.

D80

Yay, more sarcasm!

 

[Michael823]

I got confused on the other thread (In which i only actually wanted to see the puppy). Which of you is going to become a dog trainer?

I'm in an apprenticeship program right now. I'm not sure whether I will become a career dog trainer, or just use the skills to help others and occasionally offer courses, as there are many people who just need a little help.

 

[mike17l]

I was debating the use of negative reinforcement tools to train a puppy

We weren't. And, that was the whole point. We never said to use negative reinforcement on a puppy. You assumed we were talking about using an e-collar on a puppy. But, if you had actually read the posts we made, not once did we say that one should use an e-collar or negative reinforcement training on a puppy.

 

[diamondlil]

I'm in an apprenticeship program right now. I'm not sure whether I will become a career dog trainer, or just use the skills to help others and occasionally offer courses, as there are many people who just need a little help.

When you say 'offer courses', would that be like a free-lance employment?
My friend has completed her exams for schooling horses and teaching riders, but before she could go freelance officially she had to affiliate to the reguatory body to get her idemnity and insurance.
I help her unofficially, as in I'll sometimes school a horse under her supervision as part of her training programme for me. I'm covered by my own insurance as a leisure rider but not as an instructor, so it's on the understanding from the horse's owner that it's a lesson for me but just an exercise session for the horse.

 

[Michael823]

We never said to use negative reinforcement on a puppy. You assumed we were talking about using an e-collar on a puppy. But, if you had actually read the posts we made, not once did we say that one should use an e-collar or negative reinforcement training on a puppy.

And quote below. Besides, it is about using positive reinforcement on a puppy to not require more strict training on an unruly adult dog, not to train a dog through negative reinforcement. I can understand the use of more harsh methods of training to control dangerous and unpredictable dogs as a last resort, not for the benefit of quickly controlling a dog through fear based training.

My pup will be fine, and will get the rod IF needed. Because I am the pack leader. A dog learns via experience, good AND bad, just like children.

D80

Pack leader uses a rod, very interesting. http://dogpublic.com/articles/articl...id=14&pid=1640

 

[Michael823]

When you say 'offer courses', would that be like a free-lance employment?

If I was to offer courses it would most likely be through the humane society, so it would be covered by them.

My friend has completed her exams for schooling horses and teaching riders, but before she could go freelance officially she had to affiliate to the regulatory body to get her indemnity and insurance.
I help her unofficially, as in I'll sometimes school a horse under her supervision as part of her training program for me. I'm covered by my own insurance as a leisure rider but not as an instructor, so it's on the understanding from the horse's owner that it's a lesson for me but just an exercise session for the horse.

That's great, working with horses must be very rewarding. I've only just officially started the apprenticeship program, though I have been working with my other trainer for a couple of years. So I'm not exactly sure what type of insurance procedures I will need, but I will cross that bridge when the time comes. And if I just do pro bono "free lance" work to help friends, or friends of friends, I'm sure I would just have to get them to sign some simple waver.