mike17l
Self-Admitted Duckoholic
Hey Kyle, Here is the HuffPo link if you would like: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/02/13/chris-matthews-i-felt-thi_n_86449.html
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ObamaCare and me By Zane F Pollard, MD
- Thread starter mike17l
- Start date
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Hey Kyle, Here is the HuffPo link if you would like: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/02/13/chris-matthews-i-felt-thi_n_86449.html
mike17l
Self-Admitted Duckoholic
Here is another link for ya:
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/brad-w...thews-obama-speech-caused-thrill-going-my-leg
KJUN
Well-known member
I like this part of that article: "MATTHEWS: -to an audience of people who were very probably liberal and probably anti-Republican. He said this is an American hero I'm running against. And then, of course, he went in to delineate his differences with him."
Soooooo, I read that as McCain was a person who fought FOR this country. He put his life and fortune at risk to defend this country against foreign enemies." Obama's differences? Well, he admits he isn't a hero, and the opposite of an American would be a Kenyan in this case....lol. He hasn't defended the country with his life, but he apparently acts like he has pledged his life to attacking this country. He hasn't risked anything, but he has made - along with the rest of his Chicago buddies - a fortune by stealing and raping the American economy and American taxpayers. Obama doesn't fight foreign enemies: his pisses off foreign friends and sucks up to foreign enemies until he is the person THEY want running America. To the good parts (and there are many good parts) of the American Health Care system, Obama seems to BE a foreign enemy.
When I hear Obama speak on the government take over of health care, I don't feel a tingle in my leg. I feel a strong tingle and a lot of pain in the left arm of our constitution.
tyflier
[Insert Witty Commentary]
Did you sleep through the last 8 years?
So...a person that isn't a war veteran isn't capable of being President? Where were you 8 years ago?
Obama and HIS buddies are stealing from the American Public? You do realize, of course, that while GW Bush was in office, gas prices were higher than they had ever been, and he and his buddies reported record profits as oil barons, right. You DO remember that far back, don't you?
People born in Hawaii are typically referred to as Americans. I guess you need a geography refresher, too.
What good parts of our medical system? The part where you can buy any level of care you want with enough money? Or the part where if you HAVE no money, you get no treatment? Which part do you think is good? Maybe you just like the part where they iognore the needs of the poor an underpriveleged, in favor of liposuction for fat rich asses.
I get a cringe everytime I read the drivel and drool you post in these topics. I swear you must have slept through the last 8 years. I didn't hear you crying much about Bush, and it seems evident to me that if you had your choice, you would have gladly put GWB's little Gilligan into office instead of Obama...give Cheney and GW another 4 years, wouldn't you?
Why don't you review the recent administration, the Constitutional Rights they repeatedly violated, the depth and level of theft they participated in, and the complete lack of regard for America, it's Citizens, it's Constitution, and it's people. You really need a refresher course. And while you're at it, you should learn the definition of "unConstitutional", because you obviously haven't a clue as to what that word means...
Can you even give me an ACTUAL example of some law, regulation, act, or ammendment that Obama has put forth that is remotely unConstitutional?? No...I didn't think you could. I'm sure you can make up a lot of garbage to spew, but...I DID say "actual", not made-up...
Drizzt80
Dakota Corns
Not quite as widely and unanimously accepted by the public as """they""" would have you think . . .
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jLuiHkZh_6jawpShuW9JXGMuMZ1gD9C0RPT81
D80
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jLuiHkZh_6jawpShuW9JXGMuMZ1gD9C0RPT81
D80
tyflier
[Insert Witty Commentary]
So...you're surprised that Americans want change, but not at their own cost? You're surprised that people want to feel protected, but not if it costs them more money? It's a shock that Americans support helping themselves, but balk at helping others?
This is nothing new. It's a nice article that gets right to the heart of the matter...Polls don't mean crap, people are "wishy-washy" and under-informed on their best days, and nobody wants to pay for someone else to get by.
Of course, the article makes no address of the actual content of the proposal...
I don't know about you, but I have known for a long time that the American Public, in general, are selfish, greedy, money-grubbing, and careless about anyone but themselves. 99% of the population couldn't give a rat's ass about anyon3e but themselves. Classic "Not in my backyard" sundrome..."We want something done NOW!! But we don't want to pay for it..."
Just like some of the people here that are convinced that the only taxes that will get raised are their own. Ridiculous.
And I guess KJUN had no response for the rebuttal of his ludicrous accusations...again...
tyflier
[Insert Witty Commentary]
And Brent, just for clarification sake, I hardly find an even split very "convincing" of anything in terms of popular opinion. I mean...40% per side doesn't make a very convincing argumant for anything, really. It doesn't show overwhelming support, you're right. But it doesn't show overwhelming opposition, either.
What the article DOES show is tremendous support for reform, as long as it doesn't cost any money...which NEVER happens. What it DOES show is that in general, the American Publuic is easily led by fancy commercials, high dollar lobbyist groups, and fancy ad-campaiogns that dazzle the eyes, but don't really make any sense. Mention how people are getting screwed by big companies, and everybody scfraems and hollers. Mention how much it will cost, over 10-15 years to fix, and all of a sudden...it isn't so bad. Makes for an easy debate...
Reform Side-"You're a thief and need to be regulated!" Anti-reform Side-"You're right, but it will cost a billion dollars to control me." Guess who wins...
And really...that's nothing new...
What the article DOES show is tremendous support for reform, as long as it doesn't cost any money...which NEVER happens. What it DOES show is that in general, the American Publuic is easily led by fancy commercials, high dollar lobbyist groups, and fancy ad-campaiogns that dazzle the eyes, but don't really make any sense. Mention how people are getting screwed by big companies, and everybody scfraems and hollers. Mention how much it will cost, over 10-15 years to fix, and all of a sudden...it isn't so bad. Makes for an easy debate...
Reform Side-"You're a thief and need to be regulated!" Anti-reform Side-"You're right, but it will cost a billion dollars to control me." Guess who wins...
And really...that's nothing new...
mike17l
Self-Admitted Duckoholic
So the question must be asked again, why is it my responsibility to pay for someone else? Not why should I? I know why I should, what I do not know it why it is my responsibility.
tyflier
[Insert Witty Commentary]
Nobody EVER said you should. That's not even a remote part of the debate.
Listen...IF this gets passed and taxes go up...THEY GO UP FOR EVERYONE...not just you and KJUN. That's what you are missing. If this passes, MY taxes go up, too. ot just yours.
The only people whose taxes won't go up are those indigents that are jopbless/homeless/whatever, and illegals. And this proposal doesn't change their situation...they will still recieve free medical coverage, just like they ALWAYS have, on MY dime(and your dime).
All the whining about the reform, based on the fact that taxes will go up, is just closed minded. EVERYONE'S taxes go up. So what's your problem? You don't want your taxes to pay for medical reform? Move out of the U.S. Because brother, the US is founded on the principles of equal rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, above EVERYTHING else. In the mind of any sane individual, this includes health caer, and access to it.
All this crying and whining over a bill, and not even remotely crying and whining over the LEGHITIMATE issues within it, just crying and whining about stuff that you have made up in your own mind.
Do you REALLY think that YOU are the only person whose taxes are going to go up? I support reform. My taxes will go up, too. Imagine that...
I don't know how I can make it more clear. Medicaid already pays for indigents, jobless, homeless, and illegals to recieve medical treatment. You and I both pay for that with our taxes. This reformation isn't going to change that one iota. This reformation is going to give people that work, and must choose between food and insurance, an opportunity to have both.
If you think that is too much for someone to ask, than you simlpy have no conscience. Period.
Drizzt80
Dakota Corns
How is obama-care the solution? How about we fix the real problem? Outrageous health care costs. I had a nice 3 hour tour of the emergency room for a kidney stone this summer that ultimately cost over $4000. For a kidney stone. With my health insurance I still end up paying $800 for that little visit. For a kidney stone. Explain how obama-care will fix the real problem. Me paying for someone else's health care is ridiculous when I still have to pay for my own.
D80
D80
KJUN
Well-known member
Read.
So what? I bet mine go up more that yours - and some people's will go up a LOT more than mine. So what? If doesn't matter. If you want to give more, give to a charity. Don't make me give a lot more because you want to give a little more - or at least that you feel it is OK that you are forced to give more.
I will LOSE if this passes - and pay more for it. I worked HARD for what I have. Those that made worse decisions than me don't deserve more because of my better personal decisions.
I agree. The system is broke. Why increase the size of the broken system a hundred or so fold. The fact that it is broke is not justification to INCREASE the size of the system - that is insanity.
It is more about the .gov FAILING every time it tried to do something better for less. Most of us are complaining LESS about increased taxes than we are that it will cost more AND be LESS EFFICIENT. Most of us, I beleive, would agree to more taxes if it benefited those that paid taxes. Since it will be worse for almost all Americans - including those that don't pay taxes - than what we already have, I feel that throwing this down out throats is tantamount to an overthrow of the constitution of these united states.
Actually, that statement is a lie. That is why we wanted to be free of British oppression. The government of these united states, however, was formed to protect those rights that would otherwise be lost and to deal with international events. The TAKE OVER of health care by a communist temporarily (I pray!) in office is NOT the intent of the constitution. Period. Your statement is also a false tautology. You might as well have stated, "I like grapes, and that means to most people the government should run health care." It would be as EMPTY of a statement.
Coming from you, I vote this as the most ironic statement of the week....and it is only Tuesday.
Do you really think the government can do a better job? List three example where government inflation of its intrusion obviously helped in the last 4 or 5 decades. I don't mean "made it more socialist" because I know you act like that is a good thing. I mean, "where did it make it more efficient, cheaper, and increased the liberty of the people of this county?"
So, the system is broken. Let's make it bigger and FORCE us to pay MORE into a broken system to make it an even bigger fiasco...and force those that DO like their system to give up more without due compensation. (Isn't their an amendment against that one?) Makes sense, comrade!
Work harder. Give up the TV. Give up the cell phone. Give up the internet. You are wrong. People want everything - including their luxuries - and act like it is due to them no matter how little their efforts earn those things for them. Anyone online posting that they can't afford health care if they are PAYING for their internet are being a little bit hypocritical, don't you think, since they can afford a LUXURY instead of spending the money on something you state they need more. Shrug?
remember, you have the right to pursue happiness. You don't have any rights to ACHIEVE happiness!
If you think it is OK for someone to unwillingly be forced to pay for a benefit to someone else that they have not earned and takes it from the first person against their wills and against THEIR rights, then you are a thief without a conscience! Exclamation point!
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tyflier
[Insert Witty Commentary]
I do. I comprehend, too. You should try it...
So what if your taxes go up more than mine? Whenever there are tax breaks doled out, I'm quite certain that yours are worth a whole lot more than mine. Seems fairly even in that regard. I'm not asking you to give more than your fair share, to ensure that all the citizens of this country have access to the same medical treatment. Like I said before...if you think that is too much for someone to ask, than you have no conscience.
What will you lose? You will still be able to select which private insurance company you want to use, you will still be able to select which doctors you want to lose. The ONLY thing this will change for you is your taxes, and how rich your insurance company can get off of you and others like you.
It's justification to CHANGE the way it has been failing. Period. You can't change it by letting it slide. You can't change it by following the status quo. And as history teaches us, you can't expect big business to regulate itself for the betterment of anything but it's own profits. So the government MUST step in and FORCE changes, otherwise they don't occur. This is the first step.
You're complaining about a public option that has not been realized. In fact, most recently the news is that the public option most likely will NOT be realized. So what are you really complaining about? :shrugs:
How is providing insurance to most citizens that do not currently have it worse for ANY of them? And since 99.9% of those people work and pay taxes, it seems that it absolutely WILL benefit those that pay taxes. So...what are you even talking about?
And how is it remotely unconstitutional? It is the government's job to fix society when it breaks. That what government does. How you see this as "unconstitutional" is beyond me. There is nothing in this bill requiring you to do anything but pay taxes. That doesn't seem very unconstitutional to me, but...I realized long ago that we obviously live on 2 different planets. Mine is called Earth. What's yours?
Really? The country wasn't founded on the rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness? Geez, I could have sworn that was in an important preamble to some historical document of ours.
This "takeover of health care" is not what you are making it out to be. The same hospitals and doctors will still exist. The same private insurance companies will exist, providing they don't go out of business of their own malfunctions, and those with private insurance will continue to pay(probably lower rates) for their private insurance. This is merely regulations preventing the thievery of billions of dollars per year by insurance companies, coupled with options that will alloow ALL working citizens acces to the same level of care that those with private insurance already have.
Only in KJUN-land is that a communist takeover. Can you even properly define communism? How about socialism? Nah...I didn't think you could, because neither one have any place in this conversation...
Take it however you'd like.
I'm not asking the government to do a better job. I'm asking the government to force insurance companies to do a better job. This is where you disconnect from what is actually happening and what you think is happening...
And for starters, any regulations that prevent big businesses from leveraging debts to 9X their value, refusing to pay on contractual obligations, taking money for services never rendered, and basically steakling from the citizens of America sure does seem like a good thing.
And just so you know...that's not socialism. It's regulating capitalism. Having laws in place so that businesses can't rob people blind isn't socialism...
See...you're missing a HUGE point...again. Nobody is taking anything away from you. There is NO EFFORT being made to remove private insurance. There is NO EFFORT being made to destroy private insurance, and there is NO EFFORT being made to create government insurance as the ONLY insurance. That's part of the stuff you are just making up...
And even if this was communist Russia, you and I will never be comrades...
remember, you have the right to pursue happiness. You don't have any rights to ACHIEVE happiness![/quote]
What about life? I have a right to life, don't I? Doesn't that mean that I have a right to the same medical care that you do?
As for the rest of your rant...you show me an insurance policy that actually provides coverage for something other than major accidental injuries for the same price as internet, and I'll buy it. When I DID have good insurance, I paid close to $400 a month for it...
People in this country unwillingly pay for things all the time that are of no benefit to themselves. It's called taxes. This country couldn't survive without them.
Medicaid doesn't do me any good. I'm assuming it does you no good. We both pay for it.
Social Security will be worthless by the time I need the moeny I've been paying into it. I won't get 1/10th of what I've paid into it, because it is currently being swallowed whole by the preceding generations.
Your final paragraph is so shallow, closed-minded, and narrow in it's scope, I won't even waste any more time addressing it. It's even more worthless than the REST of your posts in this topic...
I guess I'm done with you. You better go buy as many guns and bullets as you can, and hole up in a cabin in the woods somewhere. You got a looooooooooong disappointing fight ahead of you...
mike17l
Self-Admitted Duckoholic
tyflier
[Insert Witty Commentary]
Really? Ok...than provide me with one legitimate link that describes this bill as intending to remove private insurance companies all together, and forcing people to purchase government run insurance. Further, show me one legitimate shred of evidence that shows that this is the ultimate goal. Show me one legitimate link that shows where this bill will provide for illegal immigrants, welfare recipients, homeless and/or jobless individuals. Show me one shred of evidence that states this bill will intentionally remove private insurance and practice as a choice for the public.
Having a hard time finding that, aren't you?
From the beginning of the debate, proponents have repeatedly stated that private insurance will still be an option for those wishing to keep it. From the beginning it has been stated that this bill is not intended to replace or renovate Medicaid. From the word "go" this bill has been constantly and repeatedly touted as a [reformation of the current regulations surrounding the insurance companies, and ONLY as a means to ensure that ALL working citizens of the US have access to affordable insurance, and an equal level of medical care.
Everything you guys are talking about, as I have said from the beginning, is all in your head. And since none of you seem capable of comprehending what the bill is actually trying to do, you complain, cry, whine, and moan about the pretend things you think the bill is trying to do.
Now that IS some irony for you...
tyflier
[Insert Witty Commentary]
I feel your pain. After making your monthly payments, paying your office and specialist co-pays, and covering your deductible, that would seem absolutely ridiculous to me...
...which is why I support reform...duh...:shrugs:
By "obama-care" and "paying for someone else's care", I will assume you are, again, addressing the dead horse of a public option which is not any more real than it was 3 months ago. So I'll stop lowering myself to the least common denominator and addressing it. You can go ahead and keep pretending that a public option and government run insurance is the only thing the bill is about. If it makes you feel justified in your bigotry and anger...go for it. It's fake...pretend...make believe...but if it makes you feel better... I mean heck, my daughter plays make believe to feel better, so I suppose you have that right, as well...
I haven't read this entire thread, so please forgive my ignorance to what has already been posted, argued and/or addressed. However, I recently ran across a physician's practice that, in light of the proposed bill, institued their own version of reform. To be accepted as a patient in this practice, one has to fork out $2K up front, and then still pay for office visits, scripts, etc. He no longer accepts private insurance. I don't know if this is legal or not, I simply declined and sought out another practice, but my hope is that this isn't a sign of things to come. Doctors here do not seem exactly thrilled with the proposed bill.
tyflier
[Insert Witty Commentary]
Yea...something seems just a little "off" about that...
tsst
Deuce is watching!
Good news the U.S Preventive Services Task Force (a gov sponsored group) has determined breast cancer is no longer a concern. No more self exams, no more mammograms before 50, and only every couple years after that. Also no screening needed after 74, that money will be used for end of life counseling.
Maybe a preemptive strike by the gov so they have something to point to under the new gov insurance why they won't pay for it. :shrugs: Odd thing though there are no oncologists on the task force. Oh well I am sure the gov has our best interests at heart, or in this case boob. (sorry ladies I am not intending to make lite of a serious situation)
Maybe a preemptive strike by the gov so they have something to point to under the new gov insurance why they won't pay for it. :shrugs: Odd thing though there are no oncologists on the task force. Oh well I am sure the gov has our best interests at heart, or in this case boob. (sorry ladies I am not intending to make lite of a serious situation)
Drizzt80
Dakota Corns
Shame on you for not providing a link. 
(You know ""they"" will need it otherwise it's just heresay and right wing propoganda.)
http://professional.cancerconsultants.com/oncology_main_news.aspx?id=44300
D80
(You know ""they"" will need it otherwise it's just heresay and right wing propoganda.)http://professional.cancerconsultants.com/oncology_main_news.aspx?id=44300
D80
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