Hypo Compatibility Tests

(I intend to keep this thread updated when we come across new information. Hopefully it will be a place to point people who want to know the latest on hypos.)

Given test crosses that have been performed so far, we can categorize the hypo-like traits in 5 main genetic groups:
· Hypo/Dream
· Sunkissed
· Lava
· Ultra/T+
· Christmas

Strawberry, Pumpkin, and Christmas have not really been tested against much so far, so here is the grid of what remains to be done on those. Please note that Strawberry might also turn out to be a selectively bred variation, and testing on that is also being done.

It would also be nice to see results that confirm Christmas and Pumpkin as simple recessive (as opposed to selectively bred) traits.


If you have gotten results that contradict or confirm the above, post something here.


Thanks to Joe Pierce for organizing the project, and Carlos and Kat for doing a bunch of the crosses. We learned some neat things in 2004 and 2005, and hope to learn more next year.

intresting. I wish i could help. Not that i can't if someone was willing to provide the snakes i'm really intrested in the ultra lavas. Plz do keep us updated!

Wow ,I must of missed the whole thread on the T+ . The only time I heard it mentioned was when Joe Pierce was sugesting his lavas may be T+. If there is more on this could someone link it? Thanks
Serp, cool graph . I have a hard time just posting pics or starting a poll. lol

Hi Jason, There is some info in the Ultra Mystery thread about the T+. There will be more in there soon from another breeder. Some people, including myself, suspect that the T+ Hypos are one and the same as the Ultramels. Strange results have occurred when they have been bred with amels, much like the Ultras. It makes sense that if a new hypo is an allele with amel, then it is most likely Ultra. We could find a third allele with Amel and Ultra, and I am sure that we may, but at this time it seems very unlikely.

Serp,

Great looking chart
super easy to understand and read~!

Great job for all that has put in a bunch of effort in breeding these hypos out!
Around of appliase for all of you!

Too bad that I am in Canada and can't be nearly as involved as you guys are......sigh~

Lava X hypos . .

I bred one of Joe's lavas to a hypo from a line I have been breeding here at SMR for over four generations. I didn't get any hypos. Out of 15 eggs, I got six amels and nine normal looking corns.

I bred that same lava male to a hypo motley I got from Walter and out of 12 eggs, I got three albinos and nine normal looking ones. No hypos there either.

None of them are remarkable in pattern or color and since I've been breeding my hypo line since the 80s, I deduce that my line (presumably from the original hypos) is not compatible. Not knowing what form of hypo my hypo motley is (I presume the same hypo A), I can only speak for this female, but surely it's the original hypo A.

Don
www.cornsnake.NET

i hate to bump a really old thread, (sorry rich) but this is one that seems to be an ongoing topic. Hypos of all sorts seem to be popping up. I was wondering if any of you all had any more test breedings planned to prove/disprove compatibility among any of the other forms of hypo.

This will be an on going thread. The results of a very exciting test is coming up very soon. Serp has eggs due to hatch in a week or two from a Hypo Corn het Amel (or a Het Hypo/amel X Dream. This is an ingenious test, since it will test the Dreams compatibility with Standard Hypo and Ultra at the same time. It will test the Dreams for compatibility with Ultra because we already know that Ultra and Amels are alleles, so if the Dreams are Ultras, some Ultramels will be produced.

I think most of us are expecting the Dreams to be compatible with Standard Hypo. There does seem to be a lot of variability within the Dreams, such as some have ruby colored eyes and seem to be more extreme, so some of them may even contain a couple of hypo mutants at this time. I think that Serps Dream is directly from Tony, before Tony got out of the Dreams. Tony has acquired some more of his line, but who knows what they may have been bred to in somebody else’s breeding program.

It should also be very easy to test the Strawberry Hypos compatibility with Ultra the same way. All that is needed, is to breed them to an Amel and see if Ultramels are produced. I am sure this will get done this year. Don S has the opportunity to do this test as well as a few other people. Jim at SWR, should already know this info, but avoids the subject when I talked with him on the phone. He has told Carlos that the Strawberry Hypo is Ultra and Jim called many of his Homo Hypos, Ultras a few years ago, but has renamed them to things like Ultra Ghost to Ruby Eyed Ghost. Carlos bred Strawberry Hypos X Ultra last year and I will have to review the results again. Carlos is a very knowledgeable Corn Snake Breeder, but we can have a little communication problems at times.

Agreed, this thread will probably continue to be occasionally bumped for a few years.

The Dream X Normal het Hypo/Amel was laid on 2-8-05 and started with 13 good eggs, all of which still look good.

Well, I'm on a list for a pair of christmas corns which should be here in July. Then only two more years after that and the male can be testcrossed to some girls. If anyone wants to supply girls for testcrossing I won't object. :grin01:

The only time I have ever heard of T+ was a the herp show at the Puyallup fairgrounds in Washington. A guy had some amels labeled T+, they looked like reverse okeetees with really wild intense lime green coloration where the white should have been. He was asking around $400 each for them though, so much to his frustration none sold.

IMHO, those "T+" snakes at the Puyallup fairgrounds were probably amelanistics (which are T-) with something odd going on in the iridophores.

I hope the "T+" name gets dumped. It is a horribly unspecific name. As hypomelanistic, ultra, lava, sunkissed, etc have some melanin pigment, they are all "T+" snakes. So are anerythristic and charcoal corns, for that matter.

I agree with Paul 100% except the “T+ Albinos” are most likely Ultramels. I have often heard of the border areas described as greenish, when it looks like Obsidian milky gray to me. We have Rainbow Obsidian around here that can have green, blue and pinks in it. I am sure that we will see varying colors in the normally black areas of Ultramels.

So a possible name for our next anerythristic Corn may be “T+” Anery. Great idea Paul! I wonder what the Boa World would say to this suggestion? More to the point, I wonder how they would explain that they are not T+? :shrugs:

LOL! Or T+ scaleless. :crazy02:

what of the double hets

Hey Serp nice work on the chart! My primary question is what becomes of the potential double hets. It’s possible that they could be bred together producing hypos of unknown genotype further confusing the issue. Other than lack room (and intellectual curiosity) this was one of the reasons I didn’t initially outcross the “Dreams” to the original line of hypo and decided to market them as a strain. BTW I haven’t been big into corns for some time and its just amazing how many lines of hypo are out there now. It will be interesting to see how this all comes out in the wash.

I have am starting to try to work out some hypo test with Carlos and went back through some of his emails from last year and thought that I would put a few quotes here.

Joe. Lava X Sunkeesee, 13 normal (okeetee) babies, they are not the same hypo.

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Carlos repeated my test of Lava X Sunkissed and they were not compatible. I appriciate Carlos testing the Lava X Sunkissed and Don S repeating my test with the Lava X Hypo to confirm my original results.

Ultra hypo X Christmas a bunch of normals and 3 that I have to check on then very carefull, they look like amel, but they are different. Keep in contact. Carlos.

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Carlos Christmas are het for Amel, so I believe that he produced 3 Ultramels from this breeding. This test actually was a double test. It proved that Ultras and Christmas are not compatible by producing a bunch of normals and since Carlos Christmas are het for Amel, they can not be Ultras.

Yes I talk to Jim several times he is a good friend and we think that his Strawberries are a product from the Ultras that he got from Mike several years ago.

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Carlos has talked to Jim at SWR many times and Jim has linked his Strawberrys to Ultra on several occasions. This is one of a couple of reasons that Strawberrys are suspected to be Ultra.

I breed the Strawberry to the Lava male and get 7 normals and 1 anery out of 8 good eggs..

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Strawberry and Lavas are not compatible

Joe. Anery LavaX Christmas. 12 normal Babies. I will send you pictures as soon all of them get out of the eggs.

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Lava and Christmas are not compatible.

I just got an email from Carlos. He is going to breed the Strawberrys from Jim X Ultras from Shivers line and see what happens. He is also going to breed the Christmas X Sunkissed as well.

Both of these breedings may reveal quite a bit. The Christmas have been test bred to Ultra, and Lava for sure. A few Hypos came out of one of the Ultra X Christmas breedings, that looked nothing like the Christmas, which suggested both of the parents were het hypo which is very possible and likely.

I am pretty sure that the originators of the Christmas line bred them to Ghost and produced normals, so if we can get that test done again to confirm the results, the Christmas may test out to be something new. Since the Christmas go back to wild caughts from an island, this would not surprise me.

Is there anybody else out there that can do some of the test above that Serp has listed that need to be done?

Sorry to revive this old thread, but is there any update?

(I just had to see the original date!)

SerpDerp- you should buy The Cornsnake Morph Guide. It's available digitally.

On 04-03-2005, 04:40 PM

Serpwidgets said:

Agreed, this thread will probably continue to be occasionally bumped for a few years.

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:bowdown:

Oh great teller of the future, please give me some winning powerball numbers...

If I get a hold of Christmas or strawberrys a male ill cross them to my sunkissed which is also het for Carmel and of my butter. I think they're cool looking snakes.