Transparent Hypo? Blue Ice?

Hi Carol

Hi Carol,
That is the same Striped Lavender that you saw at the San Diego Show. I will post a photo of him when he was born. When you saw him, he was about 4 months old. They change very dramatically as they grow. The striped gene has a lightening effect when it is combined with other genes and the snake is double homozygous for both. It is not like a hypo gene and I do not understand it, but something is definitely going on. All of mine so far have a lot of pink, so they are basically just lavender and pink striped snakes. I am sure that we can get more contrasting stripes bred into these guys. The lavenders without pink would most likely have more contrasting stripes. If you like the faded stripes, then I guess we have them already. I think I like the extremes of both the perfect contrasting stripes and the almost solid colored snakes.

I expect that the other Striped Lavender Corns that you have seen pictures of are just as nice as these guys are. It will be nice to have Striped Lavenders available from different sources. I am sure this is not the first time a new morph has been created by different people at approximately the same time, but in this case unrelated hatchlings will be available in the beginning, so the Striped Lavenders should have a strong start. I know they are all distantly related, because they all have the lavender and striped genes, but you know what I mean.

As far as the Hypo Striped is concerned, turn off your computer for a year and you would miss a lot too. I have been purposely keeping away for longer than that, so I was not up to date on all of the new morphs out there. I guess I need to get started on Trans Hypo Stripes and “Blue Ice” Stripes. I should have some Trans Hypo Lavenders next year. I will be anxiously awaiting to see the hatchlings. Hopefully, the will look much different than the Hypo Lavenders. They will most likely be very similar, but a little different.

Thank you for the complements. I would have to agree with you, but I am very bias.

Hatchling Lavender Striped Corn Snake

The first of its kind as far as I know.

Sorry guys, I get disconected every time I try to post a picture here . I don't seem to have a good connection with this site at this time. Email me with a request to see the Striped Lavenders hatchling photo that I posted earlier if you want to see it. I will try to get it on here later, but have become frustrated.

Hatchling Lavender Striped Corn Snake

One more try.

You must have really been hopping up and down when you saw THAT baby crawl out of the egg!!!

Very nice, indeed!

"Paradox" Blue Ice yearling

This yearling Paradox Blue Ice Corn Snake has black tips around its blotches all over its body. Don’t ask me how this is possible on a hypo snake, because I have no idea. It is not suppose to happen that is why it is a paradox.

Paradox Trans Hypo Hatchling

This Paradox Tran Hypo has a considerable amount of black wash scattered around in his blotches and normal black areas.

Paradox Blue Ice Hatchling

This hatchling Paradox Blue Ice has black pigment on its neck.

Test Breeding Proposal with Hypo Corns

Test Breeding Proposal with Hypo Corns:

I was thinking about all of the possible different genetic hypomelanistic corn snakes that are out there in the corn snake world at this very moment. I know there are at least three different hypo genes. We can call them Type “A” (Regular) Type “B” (Sunkissed) and Type “C” (Transparent) for now if we wish. There are many more names attached to hypo corn snakes than the different known genes of hypo. Is a Dream, Ultra and Transparent Hypos the same or perhaps the Dream, Ultra and Regular hypo the same. The Dream and Ultra may be different than the other three and we don’t know it. There may be some breeders out there that have bred a Dream or Ultra, to a Regular or Sunkissed Hypo and could report their findings to clear up some of this mess. I personally would like to take our hobby up a notch and find out what hypo genes we are talking about and try to keep better track of it in the future.

My proposal to everyone interested in corn snakes is to test breed the different hypos together next year and find out which line is related to which. If we work together, we can do a great deal of test breeding next year. We can eliminate most of the questions we all have about the different hypo lines next year and not stay in the dark any longer. We will need a coordinator. Someone who is above average in their knowledge of genetics and that we all trust. This coordinator can help set up the needed test breedings that he/she thinks is necessary through volunteers and keep track of the test breedings results that are reported to him/her. It is very possible to do hundreds of test breeding next year if it is coordinated correctly. There is definitely the possibility of errors, either my accident or intentionally, but if enough test are done, the statistics will point to a high probability of accuracy.

Does anybody want to volunteer to be the coordinator or nominate someone. I personally, barely have enough time to take care of my family and my animals as it is so I do not want the job. I can also say that my knowledge of genetics is no greater than anyone else can learn from other breeders in the hobby. I am willing to give several adult Trans Hypos to the parties that the coordinator selects in an effort to answer our questions about the hypomelanistic corn snakes. I happen to have several adult males and females of the Trans hypo line to offer to this project.

Do you think we can do it? Do we have the desire to do it? I bet we can generate an enormous amount of statistical data in one year and the coordinator can organize it and present his or her findings in this forum to all of use in as short a time as the end of next summer. Any and all comments and suggestions will be appreciated and help to achieve our goal, if we choose to do so.


Joe

I think Kat would be a great person to play with that, since she already has access to hypo a, hypo b, and a "ultra hypo". (sorry if I used the wrong term.) I hope she doesn't mind my nomination, lol.
One question I've been wanting to ask...
I don't know if you are aware of the fact that someone else at that same San Diego show was selling corns that were labeled either T- or T+ hypos. Sorry guys I still haven't had time to read up on exactly what these are claiming to be. These hypos looked much like yours. I don't know if you made any "rounds" and talked to any other vendors but I was curious if you got a chance to see those T+/T- hypo corns? I am really curious to see if these would be compatable with yours. They were in one of the front "rows" of the show and if you were looking towards the front of the show from your table last year they were on the right toward the front. I regretfully did not grab a card from them. The snakes were definately different looking than the average hypo, they looked like amels with grey borders and the eyes were dark but with a glowing red about them too. Very hard to describe, much like your animals. I left the show feeling you both had something different, but was uncomfortable putting the $$ on the line at that time.

Hey Joe,

I'm willing to help with the breeding trials in terms of offering the information I have. We don't necessarily have to require the breeding trials/loans/whatever be soley with adults. People could trade hatchlings of the unknown hypo forms, and then pair them up as they mature.

I have a male Ultrahypo motley adult (only adult I've got carrying that gene), if you don't mind loaning a female, I'd be willing to breed them and report on the findings. I can't loan him out, though, as he's the only one I have, and I need him for some other projects. I -can- tell you that he's not carrying Hypo A... I bred him to an amber from Don S. this year and got normals, caramels, and amels... no hypos of any kind. Alternatively, I can offer a male 'het' offspring in trade for a male het transparent hypo, and pair the het trans hypo with my female holdback when she's old enough.

I say 'het' because I only have the breeder's word that what he calls 'ultrahypo' is recessive... I can elaborate on that more if you like, but it boils down to that it /probably/ is recessive based on what several people have said, but I want to see it for myself before I start selling 'het for ultrahypo'. And I want to test it against sunkissed as well... (I have a female sunkissed to test against him, but she's already earmarked specifically for another project, one that I don't feel comfortable postponing... so I won't know on Ultrahypo/sunkissed until 2005.)

Anyway... that's where I stand.

-Kat

Hi Kat!

Hi Kat,
So you have bred the Ultra Hypo with an Amber and did not get any hypos. That is excellent. I would conclude, as you did, that the Ultra is not combatable with the “Regular” hypo. Some people may need more proof than that, so it would be great if someone else has already bred the two hypos together as well. For me, that is one test breeding down with the Ultra and two more to go. I am sure that there are many more people who have bred two different type of hypos together that will come forward soon. I personally do not know of anyone else who has test bred the “Regular” Type “A” hypo with the Sunkissed Type “B” hypo except Rich Z. What else does Rich Z know about the compatibility of hypos with different names?

It sounds like you are a willing volunteer to do some test breeding with an Ultrahypo Motley Male. I can send you a Trans. Hypo Female and a Sunkissed Hypo female “on loan” ,as you said, to do test breeding with next year if you wish. We could discuss the details by private emails. If all went well for you, next year you could test the Ultra against the other two know types of hypo.

I think ideally, it would be nice if many more people volunteered to do test breedings as well. The more test breedings that are done the more conclusive the results will be. I had someone in mine to be a coordinator when I made the proposal. I thought someone else would nominate him, but they haven’t yet so I will. It is someone who already has a genetics site up and running. I think Charles Pritzel would be a great candidate.

We may just keep in contact on the forum and let people know what is going on and be able to solve many of the mystery’s with the hypos in that way. I contacted Don Soderberg, who I sold a pair of Trans Hypo Okeetees to many years ago. I was hoping that he had done some test breeding with them. I learned that he had some trouble with them and the female ended up dieing egg bound. He farmed out the male but wasn‘t sure where it went without doing some digging. There is another known Trans Hypo male out there floating around producing who knows what. I wanted to replace the pair of Trans Hypos that he had trouble with and I ask him if he would be interested in an adult male Trans Hypo to do some test breedings with. He said that it sounded like a great idea and is going to breed the Trans Hypo male with at least the Type A and Type B hypos next year. He also has several other Hypos with different names that he may be able to breed him to. Many other people have several different named hypos in their collection and could begin some test breedings of their own.

Well Charles, what are your thoughts on this subject?

Joe

test breeding

out of curiosity ,what do you do with the double hets if no hypos are prodused from the test projects? Wouldn't it cause more confusion in the long run if thier is a lot of mixed hypo hets out there? It seems that the only way to avoid that would be to destoy them.

Sure, Joe. My email is [email protected]. You might want to get back in touch with Serpwidgets (once he gets settled in from moving and shows back up online), as he has the 'Dream hypo okeetee', a female, who may or may not be of breeding size next year.

Here's a pic of my ultra hypo motley... just took it 5 minutes ago. Looks amel, doesn't he? Buuut...

-Kat

...here's a comparison pic of him with an amel (he's in shed in this pic). Quite a difference, when put side by side.

-Kat

Hi Gridfinder

Hi Gridfinder,

I think that you are right, but the benefits may out weight creating more “Space Garbage”. For me and others who keep track of the linage of the hatchlings we produce, the Normals Corns that I produced this year are Normals double het for Type B and Type C hypo. If the people who bred hypos know what hypo line they have, you will be able to buy a certain type of hypo from them, if that is your interest in snakes. It will also help in determining which hypo genes exists, therefore; which morphs exist. It will make it easier to create more morphs which is what we have been discussing in this forum.. Having snakes that are double het for two hypo types floating around in space will add to the confusion. I am sure they already exist.

I definitely see your point when these hatchlings are raised up and bred together. I may not have any idea which hypo is which. I see the possibility of a homozygous snake for Type A, B, C and snow. Perhaps we can remove more color and combined with other genetic factors who knows. How do they get a Glass Fish anyway? We may not be able to tell much of a difference at all. I have heard that a double homozygous snake for hypo type A and B is not working out. I assume that meant that there was no discernable difference that would get us excited.

There are a couple of factors to consider, when we debate what to do with the hatchlings when they are produced. I personally see no reason to destroy them. Have you ever went to a snake show and watched the crowd? The mix of different types of people with completely different types of interest in keeping snakes in captivity is surprising at times. They can range from professional people in business suits to the Goth look. The guy in the suit may buy several corns and put them in a tank an accidentally get eggs. He can hatch them out and then just takes them to the pet store and sells Space Garbage. The Goth may fall in love with snakes and become a breeder and keep track of the linage of snakes and develop new morphs. It could be the other way around of course. My point is that there are only a few people who become serious breeders who are interested in snakes and the others are pet owners that can cause space garbage and it will always be that way.

Another factor is the wholesalers. I think they are a necessary evil, if you want to put it that way. I don’t know how you feel about people making money off of snakes. I know the opinions will vary as much as the different type of people involved in snakes. There are not too many people who maintain a business and generate enough cash flow to keep it operating in the snake business. If the people who breed snakes do not make money from them, then the entire world of the snake hobby as we know it would not exist. No forum, no snake sites, no snake shows, no snake magazines and the list would go on and on. The pet industry is huge in the US. Snakes are a very small part of the pet industry, but without pet stores and wholesalers selling reptiles and related supplies, there would not be enough money generated to maintain the hobby as we know it today.

In a vary short time, the wholesalers will be selling snake hatchings het for many other new genes other than hypo. They are already getting normals possibly het for Striped Lavender and perhaps Striped Butters. So the mess, will get even more confussing. If we know what genes exists, such as hypos, and attempt to keep track of them, the serious breeders will have a handle on it and I think it will be a good thing in the long run.


Joe

Hi Carlos,

Hi Carlos,

I do not know what kind of hypo you have except that it is very beautiful. The white borders are very attractive. None of my hypos have white on them. I do not believe that any of my normal corns do either. Someone else may be able to provide information about a normal phase that has white on them. The only white on any corn that I have is an amel of some sort.

I would have to assume that your hypo is a Type A hypo until proven otherwise. Most hypos that are sold are Type A. You really do not need to specify Type A hypo when you sell them. It is pretty much understood that a Hypo Corn is a Hypo Type A. Your hypo looks most like the Crimsons that I have. Considering how much a normal corn can vary, we would expect to see the same amount of variation in a Type A hypo. Perhaps that is where most of our confusion is coming from with the hypos. We get an exceptional one or one that looks different and we think it is caused by a different gene, when it is most likely just a difference of appearance in the normal look of the snake it is coming from. This is why a new Type of hypo that is announced is questioned so much.

Joe

Actually I have bred Ultra Hypos a fair number of times and found the results, well let's say "confusing".

I have a couple of what I thought are regular Hypos that when I breed Ultra Hypo to them, will produce two distinctly different looking Hypo babies. I have bred Ultra Hypo to Sunkissed and gotten all normals, as this was one of the earlier tests I did to try to figure out what Sunkissed actually was. And when I have bred Ultra Hypo to a couple of Ambers (which were supposedly just regular Hypo combined with Caramel), I got ALL normals hatched out. I have bred Ultra Hypo to Hypo Lavender and gotten some Hypos and some normals.

Ultra Hypo bred to Ultra Hypo has always produced Ultra Hypo babies for me.

Good luck figuring that out....

Oh and as a side note, it is not all that unusual to get Hypos with black borders around the blotches. I was feeding some Sunkissed babies last night and noted that many of them had strong black borders around the blotches. They are beginning to get pretty sharp looking. I may have to keep a few of them myself now that they are starting to color up quite a bit.

HYPO CORN SNAKE NAMES

HYPOMELANISTIC CORN SNAKE NAMES:

I have been doing searches on my computer and have came up with a few names associated with Hypo Corn Snakes. WOW, there are a lot more than I thought and more I am sure. Anybody want to help with the list? I ran out of time today.

TYPE “A” HYPO CORN
Hypo Corn, Rosy Corn, Pink Corn, Scarlet Corn, Super Hypo.

TYPE “B” HYPO CORN
Sunkissed Okeetee, Sunkist Okeetee

TYPE “C” HYPO CORN
Transparent Okeetee, Transparent Hypo.

HYPO CORN SNAKES WITH DIFFERENT NAMES BUT QUESTIONABLE TYPE
Pumpkin, Dream, Ultra Hypo, Ultrahypo, the last two I assume are the same

TYPE “A” COMBOS AND HOMOZYGOUS:
Hypo Okeetee, Hypo Motley, Hypo Striped, Hypo Bloodred, Hypo Miami,

Crimsen (A x Miami) Ghost (A x Anery A), Striped Ghost (A x Striped x Anery A), Phantom (A x Anery B), Platinum (A x Anery B), Amber (A x Anery C), Butter (A x Anery C x Amel) Butter Motley, (A x Anery C x Amel x Motley), Striped Butter, ( A x Anery C x Amel x Striped) Cotton Candy/Hypo Lavender (A x Lavender) Striped Hypo Lavender (A x Lavender x Striped), Silver Queen (A x Anery A x Miami), Sunglow (A x Amel) Sunglow Motley (A x Amel x Motley) Dayglow (A x Amel)


Any more we should add?

Hypo A does not have anything to do with Butter... Butter is strictly Amel + Caramel. Furthermore, not all sunglows utilize hypo at all in their look.

Other than that, I believe you have it right...

(And yeah, AFAIK Ultra hypo and Ultrahypo are the same thing... I just have a bad habit of combining words when I type sometimes...)

Just a couple of questions for you though...

1) Who is Gridfinder? Did you mean Gryffendor?

2) Carlos hasn't posted in this thread that I can see... whom are you referring to in your last post?

-Kat

I take it that "Anery C" equals "Caramel?" I've never heard it referred to in that manner before.