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Motley and stripe questions.

jesserca

I may need snake rehab.
So I have good hold on genetics all except motley and stripe combos. So I have some questions about some snakes I own. I have a vanishing stripe normal who is just beautiful so is vanishing stripe its own gene or is it more a line bred look? If I breed it to a normal stripe would they be het vanishing or not? Also I have a butter who is motley but the motley forms a stripe, does he have a stripe gene or is it just a neat way his motley pattern forms? Thanks!
 
Vanishing is a line-bred-type trait. Sort of like how an animal can't be "het" for zigzag, and a zigzag can pop up in a clutch from completely normal looking parents.

Thus, two stripes can produce stripes with either a lot of striping, or little striping, depending upon the whims of the universe.

The type of motley you have is referred to as a "pin-stripe" motley. The motley gene can do the pinstriping all on its own.
 
Shiari is smarter than me, and has smacked me down on at least one prior occasion, so im going to agree with what she said....

...Although, unless you know the genetics of the parents of your pinstripe, it is possible thats its a het motley/stripe. But i know thats going to make you ask more questions, so just forget what i just said, ok?

:bang:
 
I've read that vanishing can just appear, or fail to appear, no matter what the parents look like. You can take two beautiful vanished snakes and get a bunch with full stripes. There is no het vanishing.

Also the pinstripe motley may or may not be het stripe; pinstripe is unrelated to stripe. Take my Zora for instance; she is motley/motley.
 
I've read that vanishing can just appear, or fail to appear, no matter what the parents look like. You can take two beautiful vanished snakes and get a bunch with full stripes. There is no het vanishing.

Also the pinstripe motley may or may not be het stripe; pinstripe is unrelated to stripe. Take my Zora for instance; she is motley/motley.

Pinstripe, which is selectively bred or a random occurrence, is related to stripe in that its motley, and motley is related to stripe.

Maybe i just miss the point youre trying to make?
 
Motley and stripe are at the same allele. A snake can have two motley genes, two stripe genes, or one gene of each.

Motley + motley = motley

Motley + stripe = motley (het stripe)

Stripe + stripe = stripe

Normal + motley = normal het motley

Normal + stripe = normal het stripe
 
That much i know. I guess the confusion lies in your "pinstripe is not related to stripe" comment. Are you saying that pinstripe the phenotype is not related to stripe? If so, then maybe i understand you now. Pinstripe has occurred enough and proven itself to be reproducible, so its a safe bet that your pinstripe ISNT het stripe, BUT you never really know unless you have the genetics for the parents on hand.

ps- im confused and this is just how i interact with people on the new. im NOT trying to be a terrible person. not right now, anyway.

:)
 
I'm _saying_ that a snake from generations and generations of motley parents, who are all homo motley, can be pinstriped. It has no striped genes, homo or het.

We don't know what the OP's butter pinstripe is, though- homo motley or motley het stripe, unless we know what the parents were.

There are three possible scenarios which would produce a motley snake:

Motley/motley x motley/stripe = 50:50 motley/motley or motley/stripe

Motley/motley x stripe/stripe = 100% motley/stripe

Motley/stripe x motley/stripe = 100% motley/motley
 
I picked Nimue for her stripes and then she shed and lost a third of the pattern at once. I am not sure if she was a stripe or a cube. When I look back on her old photos she has a long thin stripe going straight down her spine and a few dashes on her neck. This stripe is completely gone now along with much of her side stripes one dash remains right behind her head. It makes me wonder if the Vanishing stripe is misnamed and if I should breed her to stripes or cubes. Should we call them patternless if they are not actually stripes.
And after Nimue's last shed I am no longer questioning if she is a ghost, she is. I'll wait until she sheds again before posting an update pic.
 
patternless is a whole 'nother can of worms.
I have 2 Ghost stripes. Sherm, you can barely tell he has them, and you might say he is patternless stripe. Silvia is a Vanishing. She definately has stripes on her neck, but they totally aren't there by halfway. And in 3 sheds w/ me her pattern is fading, so to me seems that's common.
IIRC, no guarantee you can reproduce cubes from stripe x cubed. Someone with experience can chime in on that.
 
I only know that cubes are a type of motley. Corncalc doesn't have a slot for them so if they are line bred I hope someone tells me. It will be many years before she hits 300 g the rate she's growing. I just find the genetics aspect fascinating.
 
Tiny correction, Nanci. Stripe and motley are two of the three alleles (the third being the "normal" allele at this locus) that reside at the same locus.

To answer the OP, stripe is a genetic mutation, but the "vanishing" phenotype of that genotype can be thought of like a line-bred thing. And, as Nanci said, apparently cubes are, genetically, stripes--another phenotypic expression of the same gene. (See here? I should have said "another phenotypic expression of the same allele. Everyone does it!)

The same is true with your motley whose pattern is stripey. Pinstriping can be thought of as a line-bred expression of the motley gene. (Should read allele.)

Both the stripe gene and the motley gene (alleles) seem to have a great deal of variation in phenotypic expression. Where a particular individual that possesses those genes (alleles) lies on that phenotypic spectrum is dependent on other, as-of-yet-unknown factors (probably other genes, but who knows).

One thing that hasn't been mentioned yet, though, is that motley is dominant to stripe.

There are some nice explanations of this by Chuck Pritzel on Chuck's and Connie's forum.

Reason for Editing: Edited to correct places where I used "gene" when I should have used "allele." Lots of times, we use "gene" and "allele" interchangeably, but really that's just being a little lazy. There is nothing that is interchangeable with "locus," though, even in shorthand.
 
So just to clarify... if I breed stripe and motley I'll get motley? That confuzzles me but thanks for all the replies!
 
So just to clarify... if I breed stripe and motley I'll get motley? That confuzzles me but thanks for all the replies!

Think of it like eye color in people. Green is recessive to blue is recessive to brown.

Brown is "wild type" or "normal" in humans. Blue is like the motley gene. It is recessive to the "wild type" so if there's only one copy, the person has brown eyes. If they have two copies of the blue-eyed gene, they have blue eyes.... and if they have one blue and one green gene, they'll still have blue eyes.
Just as if someone has only one copy of the green gene, and the other is "wild type", they'll have brown eyes. One copy of blue and green, they'll have blue eyes. Two copies of green, and they have green eyes.
 
According to that, only one of me and my two sisters is the child of both of my parents! Mom had brown eyes, Dad blue, one sister with brown, one sister with blue, me with green.
 
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