Viv security -- evaluations please.

Needless to say that ever since my precious Dolly escaped and went missing I've been totally paranoid.

Cleo now lives in Dolly's old viv (Dolly will get a new viv upon his hoped for return). I just dumped the screen cover Dolly escaped from and replaced it with a Zilla Fresh Air screen cover. It is secured at either end with a Zilla heavy duty screen clip and two one wrap Velcro straps around the middle.

Here's a pic:



I can't budge the cover, but does anyone have experience with this lid? I can't budge it or flex it as currently configured. I don't see an escape route, but does anyone else see something I've missed or should beef up before Cleo (13 grams) gets bigger, or that she could slip through now?

I know there is no such thing as escape proof, but I want to make it really difficult. The thought of losing another scale baby is really difficult.

Thanks in advance.

To me it looks almost like Alcatraz Jokes aside ... I read your topic and secretly hope for your little baby to return too. I would test it with just my middle finger (as strongest finger at hand) and try to push, nudge, squirm around the lid with a LOT of force (of course not enough to actually break the lid) to see just how strong the snake would have to be when trying to do the same. It's similar to how I read about testing the "pillowcases" for sending lie reptiles through FedEx, aka push your fingers hard against the corners to see if they will hold, if they will, the snake can't escape (speaking about adult in that case who is stronger than baby).

Don't have real experience with this type of lid as I have "cupboard-like" viv which I dare to claim to be snakeproof unless human factor makes a mistake, but as I said above, to me this looks really sturdy maybe a sticky to the edge of the lid saying "CLOSE ME TIGHT" or something for extra layer of security, so you won't forget that by accident

Arrgh ... my mistake, not middle finger, I meant index finger ... >.> sorry about that >.>

I think it looks good. I'd double check and make sure there's no gaps at the corners.
Other than that, I would think it would be fine.

Thanks Jitt. I really think that 90% of what they sell in this country is not snake secure. I found that out the hard way.

I've pushed up all the way around the cover really hard with all my fingers and it doesn't budge.

Anyone have any experiences with babies and the corners? I can't see gaps between the cover and rim of the viv when I look up and through, but I'm not a baby corn.

As to stickies, I'd have to remember to read them.

Sadly, there was an escape from Alcatraz, so that's not good enough, lol! I do think of it as Cleo's fortress, however.

MysticExotics said:

I think it looks good. I'd double check and make sure there's no gaps at the corners.
Other than that, I would think it would be fine.

Click to expand...

I can't see any gaps, but that's a concern of mine, too. Any suggestions as to how to reinforce that area proactively?

I've tried Velcro in the corners, but then the lid doesn't go down elsewhere. If I Velcro the whole rim (and I have the industrial Velcro) I know I won't be able to get in (though that thought has crossed my mind). I've also thought of just taping her in with blue tape all around the outside, besides the clips and straps, but that seems a little unrealistic.

(Yeah I know... pretty extreme thoughts... but not a day goes by that I don't grieve Dolly's loss)

I'm breaking the nothing sticky in the viv rules, but Velcro on the rim to seal it breaks that, too. This is weather stripping cut narrow to deter her from cruising the rim to and accessing the corners.

Comments? Concerns?

I think I just figured it out. If I hot glue the weather stripping down, I eliminate the sticky factor.

I don't have a glue gun so I'm buying one. They are cheap enough for sure.

Any thoughts or concerns are still very appreciated!

I made my viv myself from the scratch, am lucky for having a really crafty dad who took it as a very ... generous project XD the moment my viv will be sending me texts about current temps and pestering me about adding more water will probably become my personal nightmare XD (behold the michrochips ... XD)

Anyways; seeing that last picture with insulation "tape" of sorts, if you will go for that solution, I would doublecheck the middle sections in that case as you might bump into exactly opposite problem = middle not fitting to the rim due to raised corners.

If you are set up on using that "tape" I would run it along the whole lid = that way the glass will cut into the tape more or less as needed, providing the intended "added security layer" without fear the gap appears somewhere else.

As for checking for the possible gaps ... all I can think about is to cover the whole viv with cardboard (including lid) and let the light shine through. If you won't see anything around the lid lip, then the light couldn't get out (best done in dark room of course). Otherwise it will give you hint where might be possible gap

Two more cents ... my soon to be 4 month old corn is unable to pull through 2mm wide gap in the ventilation grid and I watched him try that plenty of times. Might give you some thoughts about what is "secure" and what is "too much" too

As for the stickies ... make sure to make them extra big, they will be unmissable

No, no raised corners. It simply fills the space and blocks the corners better. I'm still grateful for your input. Yeah, I will test further with a flashlight for sure before I glue it down.

Congrats on a dad who can build a viv! Glad he takes an interest. It may be a little annoying sometimes, but his heart is in the right place. That's what counts!

Yeah, I am just sometimes his inputs regarding the construction were a bit overkill ... XD I'm looking forward to the programming part though Will be fun to try and create terrari Ferrari

Good luck with snakeproofing I spent nights and days watching my viv when I put Romeo inside out of worry he will indeed squeeze through the vents ... he tried. Failed too which made me rest at ease space between the sliding glasses I have for now secured by strip of cardboard stuffed between and wire hook is keeping the glass in position. Though my construction is entirely different from yours

Jitt said:

Yeah, I am just sometimes his inputs regarding the construction were a bit overkill ... XD I'm looking forward to the programming part though Will be fun to try and create terrari Ferrari

Good luck with snakeproofing I spent nights and days watching my viv when I put Romeo inside out of worry he will indeed squeeze through the vents ... he tried. Failed too which made me rest at ease space between the sliding glasses I have for now secured by strip of cardboard stuffed between and wire hook is keeping the glass in position. Though my construction is entirely different from yours

Click to expand...

Whatever it takes to keep them in and safe! Love the terrari Ferrari. I want pictures of that.

I think it looks great! My Atlas was an avid ledge climber when he was first brought home but seems to have grown out of it, either that or has convinced himself that he can't get out from that direction! I don't know that there's much else that you can do other than watch your new baby carefully for possible 'misses' in your security as they explore.

I've always wondered, are the clips hard to remove? I wasn't sure if I could deal with them so that's why I went the Velcro route for my viv.

Kalista said:

I think it looks great! My Atlas was an avid ledge climber when he was first brought home but seems to have grown out of it, either that or has convinced himself that he can't get out from that direction! I don't know that there's much else that you can do other than watch your new baby carefully for possible 'misses' in your security as they explore.

I've always wondered, are the clips hard to remove? I wasn't sure if I could deal with them so that's why I went the Velcro route for my viv.

Click to expand...

The clips took me a few minutes to figure out, but there's a diagram on the package that helps. I think these are easier and stronger than some designs but without the Velcro there could be a little give with them. You can adjust them a bit tighter by bending them. They reinforce and give me a sense of extra security on the ends, but the Velcro wraps are certainly the primary closure.

So far she hasn't found the ledge as far as I know, but there is so much time in the dark that I can't observe, like when I'm asleep. I never saw Dolly anywhere near the latch he opened before he got out. Velcro straps would have prevented the lid opening even with the turned latch.

So much goes on in the dark or other times we are not looking! And I don't think for a moment that they don't know when we are watching or not. They know.

I do feel better with the closed cell foam weatherstripping helping to block the corners and the lid strapped down really tight. They are so good at being snakes!

You could just consider replacing it with a Critter Cage, with the sliding locking lid. Then there just is no question about whether it is secure or not, as long as you pull back on the lid to test it every single time you close the viv.

The weather stripping would worry me. I can't say I have never broken the no sticky in the viv rule, but I have only ever used tiny strips of aluminum tape, which is barely sticky. I had a hatchling escape last year, and _die_ stuck in duct tape which was holding something together elsewhere in the room. So yeah- I don't trust tape at all anywhere.

Thanks Nanci.

I've had no luck finding where to buy Critter Cages. I looked extensively when I first got Dolly and could only find a kit with heat lamps etc, at PetSmart. A Critter Cage would have been my first choice when I got him. I can't find them available to ship online. Maybe I'm looking in the wrong stores?

Anyone who knows where to buy Critter Cages locally or online please help. I'll get one if I can find one.

I will be hot gluing the weatherstripping in the corners to eliminate that tape danger later today as soon as I get and learn how to work the glue gun. I'm not comfortable with anything sticky in the viv, either. Cleo will be secured in her little keeper while I do that of course.

PS I just looked again and I can now find Critter Cages, just not the 20 gal long size. I can't currently fit a 36 in long tank (next larger appropriate size) in the space I have which is 34 inches between dresser and wall. Very small house. I plan to rearrange room and build stand to accommodate larger tank eventually, but can't do it at the moment.

Seems to be working

Good news. The corner blocks made of weatherstripping are working!

First, the adhesive was easy to rub off of them with my thumb. Then I cleaned any residue with isopropyl alcohol. A little hot glue later and they were installed and snake safe.

So this evening my little girl was very active. I kept walking in on her and catching her in the vines, stretched out on the substrate, etc. The last time I walked in she was on the ledge just under the lid but she couldn't access the corner. She went right around the blockage.

Boy, the babies sure do like that rim ledge and without being blocked I know she would have been poking her nose into the corner. I'll keep checking but so far so good.

What a cute monkey she is.

I think you've got all the bases covered! My 1st snake always found that ledge and I'd have my heart skip a beat more than once trying to find him before finding him lying up there! That's why I hot glued the dowel rods all the way around the edge. Loopy tried this once or twice (remember this pic?) but doesn't do it anymore, it's too hard with no where to lie down! And when they get bigger it's impossible. I just got some Velcro too and will be putting some on the cover and sides to keep it down. Right now I'm just weighing it down, and I can do that now, but it's amazing how strong these snakes are. I can't trust that too much longer! I have the same cover that you just got, and I think it's great. What size viv do you have by the way?

Cleo's viv is a 20 gallon long. I hope to get a larger viv in a year or two when she is bigger, but that will involve new furniture to hold it and rearranging the current furniture to accommodate something 36 inches long. I'm planning at least a double stand at the moment . I'm just a few inches shy in the current room configuration.

Yes, I do remember that picture of Loopy! It was too dark in the room to get a pic of her last night (don't want to use the flash on her), but Cleo looked much the same on the ledge.

If in doubt at any point put straps on. They are easy to get really tight, really fast, once you get the knack. They don't look that bad, and are way better than the alternative.

Funny how when they are babies they can escape because they are small, and larger, they can escape because they are strong. So bottom line is they can always escape!

Just checked and Cleo is safely in her log, sleeping off the night's escapades. The snakey halo is shining in there for sure! Such a sweet baby.

DollysMom said:

Thanks Nanci.

I've had no luck finding where to buy Critter Cages. I looked extensively when I first got Dolly and could only find a kit with heat lamps etc, at PetSmart. A Critter Cage would have been my first choice when I got him. I can't find them available to ship online. Maybe I'm looking in the wrong stores?

Anyone who knows where to buy Critter Cages locally or online please help. I'll get one if I can find one.

I will be hot gluing the weatherstripping in the corners to eliminate that tape danger later today as soon as I get and learn how to work the glue gun. I'm not comfortable with anything sticky in the viv, either. Cleo will be secured in her little keeper while I do that of course.

PS I just looked again and I can now find Critter Cages, just not the 20 gal long size. I can't currently fit a 36 in long tank (next larger appropriate size) in the space I have which is 34 inches between dresser and wall. Very small house. I plan to rearrange room and build stand to accommodate larger tank eventually, but can't do it at the moment.

Click to expand...

Try looking at Pet Supplys Plus That is where I get all my tanks. I love the sliding lids! I feel much safer with them. I googled them and there looks to be several up in the chicago area. And they often have a sale running on them. I got mine a lot cheaper than the other stores around here for pets.