Interesting Ghost

This little guy popped up in an F2 breeding. I had no idea one of the grandparents was het for some type of Anery. He is definatley Hypo, but I am not sure if he is Anery A or B. I suspect Anery A only because all the other Phantoms I have seen have been MUCH lighter. He has got a lot more silver coloration in him than usual ghosts, but that could be because he has 1/4 Upper Keys in him. I plan on breeding the first generation male to a Snow corn next season to see what comes of it. I suspect this has come from the original male, since others who have corns from the same line has seen this pop up as well, but they didn't have many answers to which anery it was. I am also trying like mad to grow up a Charcoal Ghost female for test breeding. What do you think?

That is intresting,but a very beautiful ghost

Alex

He is very odd looking. His pattern is very different and he has a co-dominant belly pattern going on.

He is very different looking than any of my Anery A based Ghost.

What breeding did he come from?

My very first reaction, of the thumbnails, was that it looked like a charcoal. There's obviously something else going on with pattern and belly markings. I also agree that it looks too dark to be a charcoal ghost 'in appearance'. As to what it is . . . you got me as well. Don't you just love these hidden little gems!?

D80

What a stunning little critter!

What is the genetic lineage of the ancestors, as far back as you can track?

Huh... he's patterned like a hognose or something. Maybe he's part bull/pine/gopher snake? If he's pure corn, that's sure a cool pattern.

-Kat

Heh heh. For the record, my first guess is that it's neither anery or charcoal.

Can you show it alongside some clutchmates?

Kat said:

Maybe he's part bull/pine/gopher snake?

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That's what I thought.

We'd all like to hear the ancestry of that snake...It's pattern is very Emory-ish looking IMHO...pretty little critter irregardless :*)

Yeah, agreed. I'd also love to know the ancestry of that snake.

And yes, also, the first thing that came to mind when I saw it was blood het and emoryi.

Cool critter, whatever it is.

You mentioned some Upper Keys blood in that snake?

Man, if I could, I'd try to buy that beauty off you. Wow. It just looks amazing.

I'm with CKA my first thought when I saw it was great plains rat in the mix
now don't get me wrong. I am the first to get angry at the suggestion of hybrid or intergrade every time a different looking snake is pictured.
So I am not suggesting it is an intergrade.
I was just thinking it has that emoryish look.
But there is one section of color on one of the curves that has a look I have seen before. maybe in an anery bloodred

I am fairly positive it is pure corn. The original pairing was
1. Mother= Upper Keys X Hypo Corn purchased from Rich Z (EGG97G26)
2. Father= Hypo Miami purchased from Don Soderburg (EC366)
I kept back 1.1 Definate Hypos and 1.2 that I believe to be 1.0 Hypo and 0.2 Normal, but it is aweful hard to tell who is hypo and who just has some Upper Keys lightening influence. In F1 I got 30 hatchlings that were either Hypo or Normal, no Anerys, no Amels.
I only bred the 1.1 Hypos from my holdbacks this year because one of the normal females did not make breeding size and the other just plain refused to breed.
These Hypos were the absolute lightest hatchlings of the entire clutch so I am pretty confidant they are both Hypos. It was very shocking to breed them and see Amels and Anerys pop out. What was frustrating was that I had a whole waiting list full of people who wanted Hypos from the clutch. I didn't meet many of my orders. And by some breif moment of insanity, I sold the female Anery that I hatched and only kept back this male. At least she was purchased by a reputable person so she will be very well cared for. And of course I wasn't lucky enough to hatch a an animal that was homo for Amel and the Anery, at least then I would have a better guess on if I had a Snow or a Blizzard.
I emailed Don and he says he has hatched a very few like that from the same line my Hypo Miami came from. He seemed just as puzzled by them. I guess only breeding tests will tell. They are pretty unique even if they turn out to be regular 'ol ghosts.
Ufortunatley, my computer is very ill at the moment and I am working off of a laptop. I don't have any access to my photos, but I did find a pretty good pic of the Mother by searching the forums, and a ho-hum pic of the father right after he bruised himself up escaping.
http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=3210
http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=5453

the pattern is very interesting...it is rat looking, but not. The saddle pattern looks corn, but its odly interrupted. What is even more odd is the belly pattern and the slight fading of the side saddle...much like a blood. At first I would say anery b because of the contrast between ground and saddle color. The hypo seems to have a very odd effect though...almost like the speckled anery project that VMS has been working on.

As soon as my computer is up, I'll get pics of his Auntie she has some strange pattern as well. This Hypo Miami grandfather really throws some strange patterns dorsally as well as ventrally. I plan to crossbreed the parents of this ghost to thier other sibling holdbacks to see if the other 3 are carrying either gene.

OK, Thanks to the Computer Whiz hubby, here are some pics from the archieves. I'll definatley owe the site another donation after all these pics!

Here is what I could dig up,
1. Pic of the F1 Hypo Pair as hatchlings
2. Contrasting pic of thier bellies
3. Pic of F1 Normal female with weird pattern, she got the short end of the Miami colored stick, but sure made up for it in pattern. This is the one that refused to breed.
4. Pic of Grandpa (Original Hypo Miami male used)
5. A cute photo I found of the clutch after thier very first shed. It contains the Ghost in question, a Ghost sister, some Amels, and Hypos.

The reason I asked is because that animal is very similar to a line I have been working with over the last few years. I will finally have some adults to breeding size this upcoming season.

They came from that Hypo x Upper Keys cross I did years ago. The Upper Keys was a wild caught that I got from a guy who was up at the only Birmingham Alabama show we ever attended. He was a resident of the Upper Keys and said he caught her himself.

Anyway, when I bred one of the male Hypo x Upper Keys males back to that original female, I would get a few Anerythristic looking animals that are very similar to what you have. But as they began maturing, the color changed on them quite a bit. The blotches on them would turn almost a mahogany color.

In 2003 I bred that heterozygous (Hypo x Upper Keys) male to several type 'A' Anerythristic females and got NO anerythristics to hatch out. In 2003 I bred him to a few Charcoal females and got NO Charcoals in any of the clutches.

My suspicion is that it is a new Anerythristic gene we are dealing with, but I don't have 100 percent irrefutable proof of it.

What is interesting about this is that your animal is apparently homozygous for Hypomelanism as well, and looks real similar to mine, which are apparently only homozygous for the single "anerythristic gene".

Now before anyone asks me for photos, it's just not going to happen anytime soon. With my neck/spine problem, I don't even have the strength in my right arm to hold up my camera. And I have doctor's orders to do NOTHING at all that would put strain on my neck.

But anyway, that is my suspicion about what you have based on the ancestry you have shown. Maybe you can breed that animal to Charcoals and 'A' Anerythristics to try to confirm what I am seeing.

But of course, there is no guarantee at this point that it actually IS the same thing I am working with. Particularly if Don says he is getting some of the same things.

Ya, that is why I kept the male, to test him out. I may be able to get this guy to breeding size by next season, but for sure by 2006. In the meantime I will test the Male from Don with a Snow and a Charcoal if I can get her big enough. Perhaps I will put the F1 Definate het Father of this Ghost in with the original Upper Keys X Hypo female, that would help pin-point where it came from. But heck, maybe Don's line started from similar WC stock?? Anything is possible. I'll have to really do a lucky dance though, last year the Upper Keys X Hypo female layed a huge clutch, but they all went bad. :shrugs:
Thanks a million for the info Rich!

carol said:

3. Pic of F1 Normal female with weird pattern, she got the short end of the Miami colored stick, but sure made up for it in pattern. This is the one that refused to breed.

Click to expand...

I LOVE that pattern...the big side blotches that alternate with the dorsal blotches. Outstanding!