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Question about Ultras?

SickPyth7

SickPyth7

Snakes
I'm just trying to grasp what Ultra's are? What is a ultra? In other words where does it begin, with a normal ultra? An Ultra Amel?

They seen to be one of the better genes to have in your corns but I'm trying to figure out if its a pattern, color, or some kind of improvement gene?

Please help me?
 
Ultra is one of the many types of hypo that is out there. The unusual thing about it is, it's compatable with amelanism. That means that if you breed an animal that is homozygous for ultra to an amel, instead of getting all normals het for amel and ultra, you get ultramels. Genetically they are het for ultra and amel, but since the two genes are compatable they appear really bright, somewhere between a hypo and an amel.
 
SickPyth7 said:
I'm just trying to grasp what Ultra's are? What is a ultra? In other words where does it begin, with a normal ultra? An Ultra Amel?

They seen to be one of the better genes to have in your corns but I'm trying to figure out if its a pattern, color, or some kind of improvement gene?

Please help me?
Click to expand...

Like was said, ultra is a hypo-like trait. It happens to be an allele to amelanism, so when you breed an ultra to an amel you get ultramels, which is something in the middle of an ultra and an amel. Much lighter than an ultra, but darker than an amel. Basically an amel with some black, if you can picture that. There are threads with plenty of pictures if you want to do a search.

Ultra is not a pattern or an improvement gene. It's just a hypo-like gene that's pretty new. I think everyone agrees that the original ultras were actually hybrids and that ultra is linked back to a grey rat cross.

It begins with a normal ultra, and then expands from there. If you cross with an amel, you get ultramels. You can cross with a butter and get ultramels het caramel, and then breed those back and get some golddusts (ultramel caramel). There's plenty that you can breed ultras to that hasn't really shown up yet. Ultra bloodreds, ultra lavenders, ultramel bloodreds, ultramel lavenders, ultra charcoals, etc.
 
Sisuitl said:
That means that if you breed an animal that is homozygous for ultra to an amel, instead of getting all normals het for amel and ultra, you get ultramels. Genetically they are het for ultra and amel
Click to expand...

I think it should read "you'll get ultramels or hets amel OR ultra"...They can't be hetero. for both, it's either one or the other :*)
 
Im not so sure about that....

Joejr14 said:
Ultra is not a pattern or an improvement gene. It's just a hypo-like gene that's pretty new. I think everyone agrees that the original ultras were actually hybrids and that ultra is linked back to a grey rat cross.
Click to expand...
I for one, DONT agree that the original ultras were hybrids with Grey Rat or anything for that matter. As a matter of fact, I think if you go back and look at the orginal very HOT debates on these snakes most of the folks who have them and keep them dont in fact believe they are hybrids at all. This was largely based on an email from a disgruntled breeder who in my opinion knew he shot himself in the foot when he sold the collection. I'm pretty sure some of the big names out there, guys who paved the way in this hobby would NOT have kept them in their collections if they really believed they were hybrids. I think you're slightly off the mark when you say that "everyone" agrees that they are hybrids. Best of luck.
 
Mike Panic,
Ok so Ultra is just another line of Hypo out there, BUT it is completely compatible w/Amelanistics!

Do you have a picture of a regular Ultra and an Ultramel?
 
cka said:
I think it should read "you'll get ultramels or hets amel OR ultra"...They can't be hetero. for both, it's either one or the other :*)
Click to expand...
Nuhuh, ultramels are heterozygous for ultra and amel. (There is one amel gene, one ultra gene, no wild-type genes present.) Amel X Ultra (since they are alleles) produces ultramels:
a<sup>a</sup>·a<sup>a</sup> X a<sup>u</sup>·a<sup>u</sup> = a<sup>a</sup>·a<sup>u</sup>

Everything that is het is het for two things at that locus. (If the two alleles are different from each other, you can't have one type, hehe.) This generally means it's het for a mutant and a wild type gene, but the wild type is left out and it's just said that "it's het for the mutant." With ultra and motley scenarios, being het does not necessarily mean there's a wild-type gene in the mix. :)

If you cross an ultramel to a normal, the offspring will be het for either amel OR ultra.
a<sup>a</sup>·a<sup>u</sup> X A<sup>+</sup>·A<sup>+</sup> =
A<sup>+</sup>·a<sup>a</sup> (normal-looking)
A<sup>+</sup>·a<sup>u</sup> (normal-looking)
 
As far as the hybrid issue goes, the way I read those emails, it sounded like there was an original wild-caught corn carrying the ultra gene, and it was crossed to a hybrid to found one group of snakes, and crossed to "pure corns" (butter motley or something similar) to found another set of lines. I do not believe that all ultras are hybrids. (Although I don't care even one little tiny bit if they are hybrids. ;)) It is my understanding that the story says "some are and some are not." :santa:
 
female ultramel

i just took some pics when i got home from dinner. here is a female 04 ultramel....hope you like um. these guys should give us hours and hours of fun for years to come!
 

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Joejr14 said:
I think everyone agrees that the original ultras were actually hybrids and that ultra is linked back to a grey rat cross.
Click to expand...

How about my popping the GBB's bubble? :rolleyes:

Sorry, Joe, but no, not everyone agrees with that statement.
 
SickPyth7 said:
Mike Panic,
Ok so Ultra is just another line of Hypo out there, BUT it is completely compatible w/Amelanistics!
Click to expand...
Yeah And!? Its not "just" another form of hypo. Its a bit bigger than that if you've been paying attention. Go back and read all of the threads. Its very interesting.
 
mike panic said:
Its not "just" another form of hypo. Its a bit bigger than that if you've been paying attention.
Click to expand...

What is the big thing with Ultra? ...the yellow heads? :grin01:

I think "a new form of Hypo that has the nice characteristic to be allelic to Amelanism and interacts co-dominant to it" describes very well what Ultra is. The interesting discussions around and about the gen may be interesting for the geeks, but I think for a novice that's the facts that are enough to arrange Ultra with his genetical/morph knowledge.
 
ChristopherD said:
is it possible that the ultra amel is a T+Poss. Amel. meaning: tyronsinaise possitive(spell?) an amel w/ some black.Chris
Click to expand...

That T+ may be a good label for boas to raise the price, but the "true" intense with this test was to distingush the equal looking different amel genes in the black rats.

First we would have to test if Ultra is T+.
If it is not, I woudn't expect the Ultramels to be T+. I won't think of anythink different... :eek1:

If it is, then we could test the Ultramels. But, what does that say to us?
Case1) Ultra in combination with Amel builds some Thyrosine cause of a "mix up" effect and one allel influences to other to produce some thyrosine
Case2) Ultra and Amel act completely co-dominant, so that Amel is still T- and Ultra T+ and so a bit of Thyrosine is build, but just through the Ultra Allel

So, imho the T+ doesn't bring us much in the direction of how the co-dominance works between Amel and Ultra. If it's just interesting IF they are T+ or not, then simply ignore my posting :santa:
 
ChristopherD said:
is it possible that the ultra amel is a T+Poss. Amel. meaning: tyronsinaise possitive(spell?) an amel w/ some black.Chris
Click to expand...
Just for the record, "T+ albino" does not specify "an amel with some black." Melanin can't be produced without tyrosinase, so anything that produces melanin is T+. It's redundant to say that something which produces melanin is T+. It would be like saying a running gas engine is "spark plug positive." ;)

There are two non-allelic types of complete amelanism in black rats that look identical. When you breed the two types together, you get normals het for both types. As Menhir said, Bechtel was using the presence/absence of tyrosinase as a way to tell the difference between the two, as that was pretty much the only test available to him at the time. Once it was found to be an indicator of which line was which, the advantage of that test (if you had access to such a test) was that you could tell without having to breed it.

Since ultramels are visibly different from amels, there is no reason to perform that test in a lab... they already perform that test in their skin, and the result is positive because you can see the melanin. :) (Same as in lavas, hypos, motleys, anerys, etc...)
 
I think the rule of thumb that might come in handy is a quick and dirty visual test of which animals are "Ultras" and which are "Ultramels". You can pretty much tell by breeding results, but even that is subject to Murphy's Law. But generally with breeding plans, most people prefer not to have to work with hindsight as their only guide. :)
 
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