Hypo 03' female

Here is a hypo I got from Corncrazy. She is a pretty little girl and eats like crazy. Her name is Spirit.

She has

the oddest colored belly which I think is pretty neat. It is mostly white with a few brownish checks in the upper 1/3 of her body then goes to this neat orange color with some checks along the edges. Not sure what caused it but it is a really pretty color.
Thanks Terri, I really like this girl.

This is a shot of most her belly. It isn't the best shot but you can kind of see the few checks in the upper part of her.

And a good one

of part of the lower two thirds of her belly.

it has frosted too~
look at the speckles around her blotches~
isn't that great?
and lovely belly pattern!

All those are great looking photos !!!

um thats a crimson you may have asked for a normal hypo but that snake is a crimson for sure (hypo miami) it has all the markings and colour associated with them. The belly colouration is normal for a crimson

Nice snake

OK...I asked the breeder about the parents of this snake (and the others I have). They all came from Serpenco Hypos...not crimsons. The father however, may be a bloodred outcross?? I'm not certain, though. The father has no belly checkers and gets red toward the tail like this one does.

I have some babies from the same clutch that have even less checkering than this one (which I didn't know I had until gardenmum asked me about the bellies). I am attaching a picture...sorry it's not a great picture!

They have the same belly pattern that I have heard described by people with bloodred outcross hatchlings. Gardenmum's snake's belly is more red than most of the ones I have, by the way.

Maybe Rich can shed some light on this???

I hope so as all the crimsons i have seen over here in uk look exactly like that baby, esp the belly colouring . which means that were all buying richs standard hypos not crimsons which would be really annoying ! i'll post 1 of my crimson's and you can see how similar they are.

the crim above is a boy and the one below is a girl (the other snake is a het pewter)

Don't know if this helps, but I have a snake with the same belly. Not all of the snakes from that clutch had the same belly but it is pretty neat. They are a result from breeing a Hypo Miami (from Don) to a Upper Keys x Hypo female I got from Rich. I have seen that belly pattern in bloodred outcrosses, keys corn out crosses, and banded crosses. However, the infusion of color makes me think keys corn, since my keys outcrosses tend to have a lot of that and my pure keys corns have it very strong even as tiny babies. Hopefully Rich will respond though, he is the expert. BTW, great pics garndenmum, what camera are you using to show of your beauties?

Actually I may be part of the problem. I get lots of Hypomelanistics that are from my Silver Queen Ghost line that are VERY nice looking animals, and depending on the day of the week, I alternate between calling them Crimsons, or just plain Hypomelanistics. Some of these will have those reddish colored abdomens as seen in the above photos. LOTS of my Silver Queens are turning up with patternless abdomens as well, but of course, they are silver gray colored rather than red as in the Hypos.

Many of the Upper Keys corns will have patternless abdomens as well. This past season I bred a Hypo Blood Red into one of my Upper Keys females and got 6 or so eggs to hatch. All of the babies were Hypo Blood Reds. Figure that one out....

We have SO much to learn yet....

I think it is kind of humorous that while us poor peons in the corn snake arena are trying to figure out what exactly these oddities are and be technically correct about them, the people over in the ball python arena are slapping names on things with wild abandon (along with mind boggling price tags), and not taking the time to figure out what they really have. I had one guy quote the following in a message on FaunaClassifieds recently:

"I count 63 proven genetic mutations at this time that I know of personaly."

Click to expand...

Sorry, but I just can't swallow that one. In order for someone to lay claim to genetic mutation number 63, they would have to breed this line against everything else prior to it that was a likely candidate in order to prove that it was not just a variation of an existing genetic line. There is just no way that could have happened.

I guess the difference is that we are trying to understand this and unravel the mystery, whereas that other camp has just gone money crazy. IMHO, of course.

Heck, I think I'm going to put up one of my more unusual corns I have hatched out recently up for sale for $20,000.

So crimsons could come from hypo miami's and from the silver queens which i beleive you said throw out miami looking normals
ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh lol (i realise silver queens are hypo)

so we could have either over here in good old blighty! ahh well at least they look good and to end who cares

dont suppose you knwo which ones you sold to people over here ? eh Rich ?
(figuring that one out would probally be less trouble then figuring out the hypo confusion)

Rich Z said:

Many of the Upper Keys corns will have patternless abdomens as well. This past season I bred a Hypo Blood Red into one of my Upper Keys females and got 6 or so eggs to hatch. All of the babies were Hypo Blood Reds. Figure that one out....

Click to expand...

Actually that doesn't suprise me much, I'd love to see pics of those hypo bloods. I recently got a pair of keys corns and not only does the clean belly have me wondering, the male has a very grey head just like a bloodred. I've been noticing that outcrossing the "bloodred" gene(s) causes the look to degenerate some. Or in your words create grade "B" bloodreds. So perhaps keys corns are related to the original bloodred stock and the pattern has just subdued a bit even though they carry the genetics. Maybe these keys are just a bunch of wild "grade B" bloodreds? And the hypo part... didn't Don say he crossed hypo to keys and got hypos. Very interesting, thanks for the input Rich.

Yes...definitely thanks for the input, Rich. It's really appreciated!

It's nice to know that we still don't know what we have!

So these could be "regular" hypos, crimsons (hypo miamis) or hypos thrown from silver queen ghosts (which would still be crimsons?).

i guess with that guy /girl then its a case of waiting till it grows up and call it by what it appears to be - or once again resign yourself to breeding trials

The Crimsons actually originated from Hypo Miami stock I have been working with for a long time. The Silver Queens also came from a particular line of Miami Phase corns. I actually traced them back to one single founder animal I got back in the late 70s. Some of the Hypos that came out of them were well within my own internal definition of what a Crimson should be, so the best ones got that name applied to them.

Interesting thing is that I have bred those Crimsons from the Silver Queen line into my original line, and results were not all that interesting. Got all Hypos, so at least the Hypo gene in that instance was the same, but just had lack luster results to show for it. Yet if you keep the two lines separated, they will each produce some very nice results.

Probably another generation was needed to get everything to gel in the correct way, but I can only put up with so many Crimsons before I feel inundated with them. Besides, there was another line of them that was producing the more maroon colored blotching and high contrast that I liked enough to forget about the other offshoot projects.

Having Crimsons with plain red bellies would probably be neat, but from what I have seen in the Silver Queens, I would likely lose some contrast in the dorsal colors as a tradeoff.

And of course, there are all of those other projects I am working on that are way higher on the interest scale anyway......

Thanks

for the great info Rich and everyone. I didn't realize putting a picture of my little girl would cause so much debate but I am glad to read all this great input.
Rich, that is very interesting about the crimsons. I didn't realize that you could get them from the silver queen line and certainly didn't realize that the silver queens came from a Miami phase line.

I do have an 02' crimson from you Rich, she is a beautiful rich color but does not have any orange on her belly. I guess I will have to do some breeding with this little hypo girl to see what she throws, but all I really cared about was her nice hypo colors when I saw the picture of her, the belly color is just a neat little added trait. But I will have to do some trial breeding now because you all got me curious.

And Carol, thanks for the compliments on my pictures. I am, at this moment, using a Sony P30 which is only 1.3 mp but takes wonderful close up shots. I am planning on upping to a 4 or 5 mg camera in the near future. Then I hope to even have better pictures.