Amber...

[Amanda E]

I dont think thats a amber, but hey I think carmels are very pretty myself, especially the ones that cast alot of green color, I have a few carmels and they vary alot some almost look like ambers to me,if you like it thats all that matters,I think it is a very nice looking snake . :cheers: Stephen

You're right. I doesn't really matter. In fact, sometimes I think I like Caramels better. I'm happy no matter what he is.

 

[carol]

I'd like to see some comparison photos. I am suprised people arn't more open to the possibility that this may be a hypo. I have a Hypo Miami line that if I am dealing with hets, I have a very difficult time telling the dark hypos from the light normals. Normal and Hypo hatchlings have so much variance even in single clutches it can be very hard to tell. "Hypo" just reduces the black, it does not reduce the same amount in all animals, and not all animals have the same amount to reduce. In English.... It could be a very dark line to begin with, throw in a a "not so extreme" hypo, and you may see an animal like this. I am not saying it is, or is not a hypo... but I don't think it is totally out of the question.

 

[Serpwidgets]

I've seen several threads on this and another forum where someone identified similar-looking snakes as hypos, and then crossed them to other "hypos" and were all confused when their "hypo X hypo" cross produced less than all hypos... I just hope we don't see such a thread in a couple years.

On the other hand, I guess he could just be an anomaly, and just a super light caramel, but that really screws up the whole "identification at hatching" thing.

Honestly, it doesn't look to me like a super light caramel, or even a little light for a caramel. My caramel motley is waaaay lighter than that.

The borders on that thing are HUGE. I've never even seen a hypo Okeetee with borders that thick. If any hypos should have big borders, it would be hypo Okeetees. I'd like to see a pic of a proven hypo Okeetee that even comes close to that. So far, I haven't yet.

Maybe you are only looking at the ground color or something, but those saddles are very dark and scream "not hypo" at me. :shrugs:

 

[carol]

I agree is doesn't look like an Amber, but I have seen Ghosts with borders like that. Maybe I am a little more open because I hatch hypos that look like the attachment after thier first shed.. and end up looking like this in a few months.
http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17334
Also I think Amanda would be aware of the problem if she bred it to an Amber and didn't get all Ambers, but you are right we do have to be careful what we say. I really am not saying it IS an Amber, but I don't know if I'd risk eating my shorts over it. However, if I had to vote one way or the other I WOULD go with Caramel.

 

[gardenmum]

Well, I have to say that I agree with Serp and a few others here that it does look to me like a caramel. I do realize that ambers can be darker but it does seem like this particular one is a bit too dark with too much black for amber. As you said, though, it is beautiful and it really makes no difference in the liking of it for what it is.

Of course, all our opinions are just that and the answer will be positive when it is bred to another hypo.

I have a couple of my caramels that were/are really light. I got a caramel boy and caramel motley girl from Don last year. The first picture is when I first got them. The second pic is of the male only. He was pretty light as a hatchling and still is.

I also got a caramel motley boy from Rich in '02 and the third pic is of him when I received him and the fourth taken a couple months ago. So, caramels can get pretty light colored. The last pic is of an amber for comparison, the pic was taken last week.

Like I said, we all can surmise from looks but breeding will be the only answer.
I wish you the best in that breeding trial and hope you prove those of us on the caramel side wrong.

 

[Edmund]

Gardenmum, that Serpeco caramel mot is amazing! It's settled, I've got to get one now. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Jimmy Johnson]

Amanda

I know this has probably been asked and answered but I don't see it in this thread.
What EXACTLY were the parents?
Wouldn't this allow for the total possibilities and give a pretty good idea just which direction to point?
I do not have caramels or ambers so my opinion would be an uneducated guess at this point so I will not give it.
I wouldn't discount any possibility within the available gentics, though.

 

[Amanda E]

Okay guys... I think it's time for me to admit that I must have screwed up somewhere by labeling this guy as an Amber and not a Caramel.

I just went to go take some comparison photos and I got him out and thought, yep, Amber. Then I got out my Caramels... well, I must say that I was shocked to see how similar they all look now. I haven't had them side by side since hatching, so I was very surprised by what I saw. He IS lighter, but not by as much as right after they hatched. I remember he looked like a Caramel while his sisters looked like Anerys, therefore I labeled him as an Amber and the females as Caramels (hope that didn't confuse anyone).

Anyway, I'll re-label him as "Caramel, possibly Amber". Either way I'm sure he'll make lovely Ambers in a few years, as he is Het Hypo if not Homozygous Hypo.

Here's 2 comparison photos of him (on left) and one of his caramel sisters (on the right). The colors aren't exactly right, but they were the best I was able to get:

Jimmy: The parents were Hypo Het Caramel x Het Hypo Het Caramel

 

[Standard]

They are very nice snakes, either way that's for sure.

I had a question though-- if ambers are hypo caramels, and butters are amel caramels, would it be possible to have a hypo butter? Even though the black would already be minimized, could the hypo still intensify the animal's other colors?

Does anyone have a picture of this?

 

[Amanda E]

I would think a hypo butter would be different than a normal butter, because hypo snows look different than regular snows.

 

[Serpwidgets]

Ya, I'd think they could be different. I don't think hypo is the "just-the-reduction-of-melanin-and-nothing-else" trait that many people take it for.