stingsmom
New member
It's Getting Hot in Here!
I can probably assume I'll regret this, but it bugs me when relatively small discrepancies in viewpoints turn into raging debates. :flames: I always wish everyone could take a step back or a few deep breaths and realize that most of the "buttons" being pushed weren't really intended to be offensive.
Raiden started off with a seemingly legitimate gripe about stores marketing inappropriate supplies and dispensing incorrect information, which is certainly not an unusual report on this forum. Perhaps the comment about disgusting incompetence was a bit inflammatory, but I could appreciate his frustration. Several folks chimed in with their own stories of bad experiences. Although some (e.g. Brooklynite & Bobo's Mama) presented a bit more balance (leaving behind the bad advice, and finding a good and trustworthy source), the thread was headed into pet-shop-bashing territory from the start.
When "aka" posted his gripe about passing over the starter kit, it seemed perfectly in keeping with the thread - like, "yeah, I got some bad advice and wasted some money." I don't blame him for being miffed that he spent extra money to get a less desirable setup, or for listening to a live person over his understanding of the conflicting advice he'd seen. He wasn't claiming that he put a snake in danger, or that he ought to sue the store for negligence; he was just annoyed that he wasted his money. Sure, he could have done more research to sort out the confusion. Sure, being young and impulsive may predispose a person to this type of error, but I don't think it justifies equating him with the "Oh what a cute snake, I'll take it home today and THEN figure out how to care for it" shoppers. Sometimes when digesting all of the information about a new topic, a newbie does miss some of the pieces. It probably would have been preferable for AKA to have purchased the cheaper kit than the separate components, and to have a UTH instead of a lamp. Speaking for myself, I had purchased and read two corn snake books, including Kathy Love's "Manual" before buying any supplies, but I still didn't know the UTH required regulation, until I had the whole system set up and realized my temp was at 100F. Because I was proactive, this was all resolved before my snake arrived, but it still shows that a beginner is prone to miss a few details even after a reasonable amount of preparatory research. Is the employee liable for his waste of money, or would she be responsible if his snake was harmed by the lamp? No - the buyer IS responsible for making sure the conditions are appropriate before putting a creature in a cage. But I don't see that his gripe was inappropriate - listening to her advice DID cause him to waste some money on a less-optimal setup, which is all he really claimed.
Isn't there more common ground on this thread than contention, really? Here's a list of positions presented in the course of this thread, which I assume are largely acceptable to the entire group:
Anyway, it IS nice to have a forum available for people who want to do things right to get some guidance from people with directly relevant experience. Sometimes you can find that in a store or specialty shop; often we learn from mistakes. I really think all of the posters on this thread are reasonable, intelligent persons trying to take good care of our animals AND pass along the insights gleaned from experience. It's too bad that a few "hot buttons" got punched along the way.
oke: :twohammer
I can probably assume I'll regret this, but it bugs me when relatively small discrepancies in viewpoints turn into raging debates. :flames: I always wish everyone could take a step back or a few deep breaths and realize that most of the "buttons" being pushed weren't really intended to be offensive.
Raiden started off with a seemingly legitimate gripe about stores marketing inappropriate supplies and dispensing incorrect information, which is certainly not an unusual report on this forum. Perhaps the comment about disgusting incompetence was a bit inflammatory, but I could appreciate his frustration. Several folks chimed in with their own stories of bad experiences. Although some (e.g. Brooklynite & Bobo's Mama) presented a bit more balance (leaving behind the bad advice, and finding a good and trustworthy source), the thread was headed into pet-shop-bashing territory from the start.
When "aka" posted his gripe about passing over the starter kit, it seemed perfectly in keeping with the thread - like, "yeah, I got some bad advice and wasted some money." I don't blame him for being miffed that he spent extra money to get a less desirable setup, or for listening to a live person over his understanding of the conflicting advice he'd seen. He wasn't claiming that he put a snake in danger, or that he ought to sue the store for negligence; he was just annoyed that he wasted his money. Sure, he could have done more research to sort out the confusion. Sure, being young and impulsive may predispose a person to this type of error, but I don't think it justifies equating him with the "Oh what a cute snake, I'll take it home today and THEN figure out how to care for it" shoppers. Sometimes when digesting all of the information about a new topic, a newbie does miss some of the pieces. It probably would have been preferable for AKA to have purchased the cheaper kit than the separate components, and to have a UTH instead of a lamp. Speaking for myself, I had purchased and read two corn snake books, including Kathy Love's "Manual" before buying any supplies, but I still didn't know the UTH required regulation, until I had the whole system set up and realized my temp was at 100F. Because I was proactive, this was all resolved before my snake arrived, but it still shows that a beginner is prone to miss a few details even after a reasonable amount of preparatory research. Is the employee liable for his waste of money, or would she be responsible if his snake was harmed by the lamp? No - the buyer IS responsible for making sure the conditions are appropriate before putting a creature in a cage. But I don't see that his gripe was inappropriate - listening to her advice DID cause him to waste some money on a less-optimal setup, which is all he really claimed.
Isn't there more common ground on this thread than contention, really? Here's a list of positions presented in the course of this thread, which I assume are largely acceptable to the entire group:
- One can't blindly trust the information obtained at the average pet store, because a lot of workers know very little about the specific area you are asking about
- The good information is accessible to anyone who wants to look for it (online, in books, comparing answeres from multiple sources, etc.)
- There are plenty of stores &/or employees who DO dispense good advise to customers (and they should be acknowledged and thanked)
- There ARE people out there who buy living creatures on impulse without making adequate provisions for their care (and of course this is unconscionable to the dedicated folks who inhabit internet forums devoted to animal care!)
- We cannot reasonably expect that either bad information or impulse buyers can be eliminated
- Taking up legitimate and more serious concerns with store / chain management offers the best liklihood of fostering change, compared to complaining to our friends and computers
Anyway, it IS nice to have a forum available for people who want to do things right to get some guidance from people with directly relevant experience. Sometimes you can find that in a store or specialty shop; often we learn from mistakes. I really think all of the posters on this thread are reasonable, intelligent persons trying to take good care of our animals AND pass along the insights gleaned from experience. It's too bad that a few "hot buttons" got punched along the way.
oke: :twohammer