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Are RI's in snakes an airborne illness?
- Thread starter Taxidermy
- Start date
Tula_Montage
It's Jager time!
Regardless of the cause of the RI (whether it was bacterial or viral, stress related or triggered by a less than ideal environmental issue) they can be highly infectious, especially between boids. You are probably best quarantining the boa away from the rest of your collection and implementing strict hygiene procedures.
I had a royal python last year with an RI and it was passed onto a carpet python that was lodging at my house due to a slip up in my quarantine procedures. It happens, and it is very difficult to ensure that bacteria doesn't pass from one snake to another especially since RI's are a "hands on" illness in snakes.
To help for the moment, I would up the temperature in your boas cage to 95 but DON'T dry the cage out, you need to balance the relative humidity. You must have been misting like a mad woman to give a boa an RI due to high humidity. My boas are kept relatively dry and I NEVER mist until the last few days of a shed. Although too dry can also irritate the lungs and trigger an RI.
Heres a fabulous article that may help.
Having seen numerous postings over the last few weeks on RI in pythons, I thought I would post a few comments on the subject. Laura made a good observation a few days ago about environmental stressors in captivity and on the fact that the causative organisms are ever present.
More than 95% of all captive boas and pythons are already carrying the gram negative bacteria that are the cause of most RI’s in captive boids. If one of the pythons in a collection has an RI, then the entire collection has already been exposed to that causative organism well before the symptoms showed. This would be primarily from previous exposure from the source it was acquired, or from simple maintenance procedures within your own collection. The reason that these organisms typically don’t cause issues is that unless the animal is physically or environmentally stressed in some manner, the organism is kept in check by the snakes immune system. The main stressors include sub-optimal temps, high or low; sub-optimal humidity, high or low; or lack of security causing nervousness and stress, etc., to name a few. A healthy, non-stressed python will not acquire an RI from contact with an infected python. If it does, then it is under the same stressors that compromised the initial infected python originally.
Seeing that the organisms are already present, if RI’s are showing up in a collection, then look for the stressor source that is compromising the animal and weakening it’s immune system to the point that the bacteria are able to multiply unchecked. Too low humidity is probably almost as common a stressor as temps that are too low or too high as far as respiratory issues with pythons. The biggest issue is in the winter when temps are kicked up slightly in collections and the warm cage interiors rapidly drive humidity out into the low humidity room. Because the amount of water vapor the air can hold increases rapidly with temperature, the relative humidity actually decreases rapidly with increasing temperature, unless the evaporation potential can be met. This means that unless the rate of evaporation can keep up with the demand for moisture brought on by the rising air temperature, there will be a rapid net loss in relative humidity within the cage. Unless you have a good source of cage humidity in the drier winter months, you can sometimes risk RI’s in your collection even when maintaining optimal temps. And that brings up the point that you should never lower humidity on a python with an RI. Low humidity air dries the lung tissue of tropical pythons and this damages the tissue making it more susceptible to bacterial infection. I’m not saying keep it overly high, but in the 60% to 75% range depending on the species. When temps are good, sometimes the appearance of initial RI symptoms are caused by lung irritation due to low humidity, and many times it can be resolved before progressing into an actual RI by raising the cage humidity and maintaining temps in the proper range. Usually this initial phase manifests itself as opened mouth breathing without the presence of heavy mucous as is seen with an actual RI. However, observe closely so the appropriate action can be taken if the problem progresses.
I had a royal python last year with an RI and it was passed onto a carpet python that was lodging at my house due to a slip up in my quarantine procedures. It happens, and it is very difficult to ensure that bacteria doesn't pass from one snake to another especially since RI's are a "hands on" illness in snakes.
To help for the moment, I would up the temperature in your boas cage to 95 but DON'T dry the cage out, you need to balance the relative humidity. You must have been misting like a mad woman to give a boa an RI due to high humidity. My boas are kept relatively dry and I NEVER mist until the last few days of a shed. Although too dry can also irritate the lungs and trigger an RI.
Heres a fabulous article that may help.
Having seen numerous postings over the last few weeks on RI in pythons, I thought I would post a few comments on the subject. Laura made a good observation a few days ago about environmental stressors in captivity and on the fact that the causative organisms are ever present.
More than 95% of all captive boas and pythons are already carrying the gram negative bacteria that are the cause of most RI’s in captive boids. If one of the pythons in a collection has an RI, then the entire collection has already been exposed to that causative organism well before the symptoms showed. This would be primarily from previous exposure from the source it was acquired, or from simple maintenance procedures within your own collection. The reason that these organisms typically don’t cause issues is that unless the animal is physically or environmentally stressed in some manner, the organism is kept in check by the snakes immune system. The main stressors include sub-optimal temps, high or low; sub-optimal humidity, high or low; or lack of security causing nervousness and stress, etc., to name a few. A healthy, non-stressed python will not acquire an RI from contact with an infected python. If it does, then it is under the same stressors that compromised the initial infected python originally.
Seeing that the organisms are already present, if RI’s are showing up in a collection, then look for the stressor source that is compromising the animal and weakening it’s immune system to the point that the bacteria are able to multiply unchecked. Too low humidity is probably almost as common a stressor as temps that are too low or too high as far as respiratory issues with pythons. The biggest issue is in the winter when temps are kicked up slightly in collections and the warm cage interiors rapidly drive humidity out into the low humidity room. Because the amount of water vapor the air can hold increases rapidly with temperature, the relative humidity actually decreases rapidly with increasing temperature, unless the evaporation potential can be met. This means that unless the rate of evaporation can keep up with the demand for moisture brought on by the rising air temperature, there will be a rapid net loss in relative humidity within the cage. Unless you have a good source of cage humidity in the drier winter months, you can sometimes risk RI’s in your collection even when maintaining optimal temps. And that brings up the point that you should never lower humidity on a python with an RI. Low humidity air dries the lung tissue of tropical pythons and this damages the tissue making it more susceptible to bacterial infection. I’m not saying keep it overly high, but in the 60% to 75% range depending on the species. When temps are good, sometimes the appearance of initial RI symptoms are caused by lung irritation due to low humidity, and many times it can be resolved before progressing into an actual RI by raising the cage humidity and maintaining temps in the proper range. Usually this initial phase manifests itself as opened mouth breathing without the presence of heavy mucous as is seen with an actual RI. However, observe closely so the appropriate action can be taken if the problem progresses.
toyah
Snakes in designer genes
Although RIs can be infectious in some rare circumstances, as in the article Elle posted they are usually not infectious.
All snakes carry multiple bacteria that can cause respiratory illness, they're part of the natural load of bacteria snakes have. In snakes, for them to cause illness, they need another factor to allow the bacteria to multiply.
This is how inappropriate husbandry can result in an animal getting a respiratory infection. Cold conditions or inappropriate humidity can't possibly create a bacteria out of nothing - they can only serve as catalysts to allow natural and normal bacteria already present on the animal to take hold. Incidentally, this is how RIs sometimes seem infectious, as chances are if one snake isn't in kept in appropriate conditions, then the snakes beside it aren't either.
So chances are, both snakes already have been exposed to the same bacteria anyway. If you have another area that you can move the unaffected snakes to that is suitable, then it can't hurt to do that (I wouldn't move the affected one as I'd be trying to keep his conditions as stable as possible), and obviously keeping utensils etc. used for feeding/cleaning snakes should be separate anyway.
Good luck at the vets. It might be worth asking your vet to take samples for sensitivity testing before they administer antibiotics. There are lots of different bacteria that can cause RIs, and chances are that initially you will be given a wide spectrum antibiotic that will work on most of them. Cultures would then allow the vet to move the snake onto a more targetted antibiotic once the specific cause of infection is identified which will speed recovery.
All snakes carry multiple bacteria that can cause respiratory illness, they're part of the natural load of bacteria snakes have. In snakes, for them to cause illness, they need another factor to allow the bacteria to multiply.
This is how inappropriate husbandry can result in an animal getting a respiratory infection. Cold conditions or inappropriate humidity can't possibly create a bacteria out of nothing - they can only serve as catalysts to allow natural and normal bacteria already present on the animal to take hold. Incidentally, this is how RIs sometimes seem infectious, as chances are if one snake isn't in kept in appropriate conditions, then the snakes beside it aren't either.
So chances are, both snakes already have been exposed to the same bacteria anyway. If you have another area that you can move the unaffected snakes to that is suitable, then it can't hurt to do that (I wouldn't move the affected one as I'd be trying to keep his conditions as stable as possible), and obviously keeping utensils etc. used for feeding/cleaning snakes should be separate anyway.
Good luck at the vets. It might be worth asking your vet to take samples for sensitivity testing before they administer antibiotics. There are lots of different bacteria that can cause RIs, and chances are that initially you will be given a wide spectrum antibiotic that will work on most of them. Cultures would then allow the vet to move the snake onto a more targetted antibiotic once the specific cause of infection is identified which will speed recovery.
Taxidermy
everything under the sun.
she had a minor RI - though I don't see how that is considered Minor ... also the vet there confused me a bit. He said these snakes were used to 100 percent humidity, from what i've read and been told, it should never be that high? Also, I didn't like how they were handling her, they were a bit rough. I don't think I will be going back to that vet clinic. But she has had her shot, even though she has to get another tomorrow, we will see how that goes. I don't want to bother her while shes trying to get over the RI
toyah
Snakes in designer genes
I know nothing about boas, but from a quick look around online 100% humidity is too much - it should be somewhere around 55-65%? I would tend to stick more round there, but as long as the temperature is good (it should be at the upper end of the acceptable range right now without being ridiculously high) then I wouldn't worry too much .. just don't dry her out or soak her.
Sorry to hear the vet wasn't handling her well, could she have just been nervous if she's a big snake? Also remember vets don't get training in individual species so may be mixed up or mistaken - but don't be afraid to correct her if needs be.
If you go to another vet ensure you give them the details of the original vet, so they can ensure that the medication given in the new place is the same if possible (the WORST thing to do with antibiotics is give them irregularly or not give a full course). If you need to give shots regularly to your girl then any decent vet should be able to talk you through what to do so you can give the shots at home, rather than stressing the poor girl out with a vet visit each time.
You can also buy a small nebuliser quite cheaply online, and I've read great things about nebulising with F10 disinfectant (www.f10biocare.co.uk) as a treatment alongside antibiotics to help with RIs.
Glad to hear the vet thinks it's minor though, sounds like you got to the vet quickly which is the main thing
I'm sure she'll be fine in no time.