Bowel Obstruction

[Raiyne]

I haven't posted here in years. When I signed up, it was because the snake I had bought at the pet store was sick. The kind folks around here gave me support during her illness and eventual passing. Having learned my lesson about pet stores, I acquired a beautiful and healthy female from one of the breeders here. I named her Shesha.

That was about five years ago. She's been doing great over the years. She hasn't refused a single feeding... until today. It's my fault for not paying more attention to her. By the time I realized something was wrong, it was VERY wrong. I got her to the vet within an hour, and the X-Ray showed a bowel obstruction. The vet was able to remove it, but she's got a lot of feces to pass before she gets better. The vet said if she didn't pass it by the end of the week, that it may be best to have her euthanized. She showed me the bruises on Shesha's sides from being distended so severely, and that her restless behavior was likely due to pain.

I feel awful for not noticing it earlier. Thankfully the vet gave her something for the pain, and told me I should "swim" her several times a day (I guess that's the term for putting a snake in the tub to promote exercise). I asked about raising her temperatures, and the vet said it'd be a good idea to raise it by about ten degrees for forty eight hours in case she's fighting any bacterial infections. I'm also supposed to withhold feedings for a month or so, if she makes it past the week.

I had her eating small rats, because of how big she's gotten (and she downs those so easily, I've fed her a few medium rats). When all of this is over, I wonder if I should decrease the size of her meals for a while. Is it possible the larger meals led to the obstruction? The vet didn't talk about possible culprits. I always feed Shesha in a cardboard box, free of any substrate and I keep her water as fresh and clean as possible from debris. I just don't know what I did wrong.

 

[heatwave]

I'm not an expert in bowel obstructions having never faced one in a snake, but a good rule to follow is don't feed another meal until the snake poops its last feeding...that way you aren't compounding on a possible obstruction. A medium rat seems like a tall order for even a large adult corn. I have a 5.5' okeetee and I dont feed him anything larger then weanling rats. Just because they CAN fit it down their greedy little gullets doesnt mean they should, you know? I did once have a bearded dragon that died of a bowel obstruction. She was outside in the garden with me and before I could stop her she jumped off her rock and gobbled up a toad almost as big as her head. She was unable to digest the massive meal and did not survive the surgery to remove the blockage.

What exactly was the blockage? was it just a lot of feces? Calicifed deposits? urates? I would certainly try to get some more information from the vet about the possible causes so if she does survive it the incident isn't repeated.

I am very very sorry to hear she is having such a hard time. I hope the medicines (Did he give her snakey laxatives? how did he remove the blockage was it surgical or an enema or what?) work and she makes a full and immediate recovery. I wish you both all the luck in the world!!

 

[Raiyne]

I should have asked for advice a long time ago on the size of her meals. One of the problems is the only store that sells frozen mice is PetCo, and the packages aren't very accurate with size and weights. They're also opaque so I can't see what's inside. Their "large" mice are not very big, and they don't offer "jumbo," so when Shesha grew to about 140 grams, I didn't know what to do. I think their small rats are probably close in size to the mice she's supposed to be eating, but I'm not sure. I'll definitely stop feeding her anything bigger and if you think I should drop back down further to the large mice, I certainly will.

The vet didn't seem to be as concerned about the blockage as she was with the distended stomach. She said that the X-Ray clearly showed the blockage and that she was able to "pull it out." The clinic had stayed open just for my appointment because it was an emergency and I wanted to be out of their way as soon as possible, so I didn't ask too many questions.

She mentioned that Shesha might be dehydrated and suggested force-feeding her pedialyte, but the warning about possibly drowning her scared me. The vet didn't mention anything about laxatives, but if that's an option, it sure sounds like something that should have been done.

I'd love to get a second opinion but the number of herp vets in my city makes things difficult. The vet that treated my first corn back in 2008 retired. After many calls to every vet clinic, I FINALLY found one that would treat snakes. I'm not sure who else to go to. =/

As an update, Shesha did pass some stools in the bathtub, though it was a small amount. I'll be honest and say that I haven't payed as much attention to her as I used to, otherwise I probably would have noticed whether or not she'd pooped before feeding her again. I keep track of her weight, her feedings, and the last time she's shed. From now on I'll keep track of her bowel movements as well.

 

[bitsy]

Poor you! What a horrible situation to find yourself in. At least you did catch it and the main problem's been sorted.

Generally a Corn won't need anything bigger than large/adult mice during its adult life and they're usually eating those by the time they're three. Only unusually large Corns are even physically able to eat small rats. I'd kind of change the emphasis - she doesn't need to eat large food items becase she's big. She's probably big because she's eating large food items. 140g is quite small for a Corn still, and quite small to even be eating adult mice. We'd usually expect adults to be in the 300-500g range although some do get larger.

When she's up to it, a photo would certainly help us take a look at whether a diet is in order. My adult males and non-breeding females eat one large mouse every two-three weeks.

It's odd that your vet has warned about drowning if you tube-feed a pedialyte solution. Their airway opens via a small tube in the base of their mouths. If the pedialyte tube is inserted correctly into the back of the throat and into the stomach (which is quite easy to do if you can keep their jaws open), then it bypasses the airway completely. Drowning is one of the least likely problems you'd encounter. It would only be a risk if the pedialyte solution tube was accidentally insterted into the airway tube in the mouth, which would be really difficult to do as it's very small.

Did the vet say what had caused the obstruction? Was it just an accumulation of food debris, or had the snake accidentally swallowed some substrate at some point? It would be good if you can identify the problem to make sure that it doesn't happen again.

I've never heard of a reptile-safe laxative, so I wouldn't let the lack of that bother you. Swimming does do the trick for many, so I'd carry on giving her that type of exercise if it doesn't seem to stress her. Must admit, I wouldn't be swimming her several times a day. Probably every other day at most, just to give her a chance to rest and recover.

Let us know how things go. Good luck to both of you.

 

[heatwave]

It might help to put her on paper towels for a while so you can really get a good idea of how often she poops and what they look like.

I would keep swimming her in tepid (not warm to the touch) water as this will encourage her to defecate.

Also- was the vet 100% sure she isn't egg bound?? A snake does not need to be bred to have eggs.... not trying to scare you or anything just thinking outloud.

I am just a little confused by the vet "pulling out" the obstruction. If it was a bowel obstruction from my admittedly not-a-vet knowledge the only options are an enemic flushing (which would have removed almost all of it if it was just a back up of feces) or endoscopy/surgery. I'm guessing since you left with a snakey with no stitches it wasn't surgery. I'm also guessing they didnt do an iodine or radium contrast x-ray cause that takes a lot longer then one trip. I am also confused why the vet didn't tell you what it was- whether it be calcium deposits, a bit of viv decor/substrate she accidently swallowed, solidified feces/urates etc. If I were you I'd call 'em in the morning and try to get some more information out of them.

Obstructions can also occur if organs, like the liver or kidney become swollen/enlarged and press on the intestines, blocking the passage of waste. It can be a retention of eggs (egg bound). I am *assuming* since the vet said he yanked whatever it was right out of her that its none of those things, but again I am super concerned the vet wasn't specific in what he removed. If it had been my vet, he would have been pulling me over to the microscope to give me a birds eye view and explain the detailed orgions of whatever had gunkified my snakes innards.

Laxative like oral and enemic solutions are available but I would not use them without a vets guidance, especially since we have no idea what the root cause is. if its not just a fecal build up you could make it worse or drown her.

If it showed up on a non-contrast x-ray..... IDK what it is. This is all very confusing to me! maybe someone else will chime in soon and offer advice.

Oh! and food. Go WAY smaller then adult mice for her next few feedings. I'd drop her all the way down to hopper mice/fuzzy mice for now, even if it means more feedings. You need to offer small food items for her bruised tummy. you dont want her regorging right now. eventually I would work up to adult mice/jumbo mice, or weanling rats (remembering that rats have higher fat content) but I would not go above weanling rat in size.

 

[Raiyne]

I may be wrong on her weight, if 140 is small. My scale says 1400 or so, which seemed impossible to me, so I figured there had to be a decimal in there somewhere. Is it possible for a corn's weight to be that high or am I just completely messing up the numbers? I cannot imagine that she's a small corn snake, unless I am completely wrong on how big they can get. I haven't measured her length, but I'd guess she's at least 5 feet if not more. She's friggin' huge.

 

[heatwave]

Generally a Corn won't need anything bigger than large/adult mice during its adult life and they're usually eating those by the time they're three. Only unusually large Corns are even physically able to eat small rats. I'd kind of change the emphasis - she doesn't need to eat large food items becase she's big. She's probably big because she's eating large food items. 140g is quite small for a Corn still, and quite small to even be eating adult mice. We'd usually expect adults to be in the 300-500g range although some do get larger.

Must admit, I wouldn't be swimming her several times a day. Probably every other day at most, just to give her a chance to rest and recover.

^^ what bitsy said!

I agree soaking several times a day not a good idea, and would do every other day and leave her alone the rest of the time except peeking in on her.

I totally missed the 140 gram thing! How big is she now? Honestly im surprised a 140g snake could swallow an adult mouse let alone a small rat!

IMHO I would seek out a new herp vet- a lot of the stuff this one told you seems.... off. :/

 

[bitsy]

You'd have to go some to get a Corn over 1000g, but if she's capable of eating rats - who knows? On the other hand, a 140g corn certainly couldn't eat a small rat. Either your scales are way off or she's the biggest Corn I've ever heard of! 5-6 feet would be on the long side, but not abnormal.

A pic would be helpful.

 

[heatwave]

1400.... yea you may need a new scale...unless she is just massively overweight.. Have you got a pic of her?

 

[heatwave]

Cowboy, my ginormous okeetee male is close to 1000, but he's close to 6 feet. But 1400- thats almost 50% heavier then him, and hes the largest corn I have ever seen.

 

[Raiyne]

The vet let me see the X-Rays and said it didn't look like she was egg-bound, but she seemed hesitant about what it was, saying that she was pretty sure it was fecal matter. The X-Ray she showed me was zoomed in on the stomach, so I didn't see the blockage she mentioned.

When touching Shesha's stomach, it doesn't feel like there's anything hard inside, it's more like she's filled with air, really puffed out kind of like a balloon. I'll call tomorrow for more information on the blockage. The vet said she'd call me on Wednesday to see how things were going, since the pain meds would be wearing off at that point. Besides refusing food, and being restless, she doesn't seem like she's on death's door, but she does NOT like her stomach being touched. Hopefully we have some time to figure out what's wrong and how to fix it.

 

[heatwave]

hm... man pictures could really help! If you can get pictures of where she is swollen and how big she is etc etc that would be fantastic.

If she is massively distended, and its "puffy" feeling, my instinct would be fluid, cyst, mass, internal swelling....before I got to fecal or foreign object obstruction. Plus if the vet removed the obstruction there should have been a lot of immediate relief.

 

[Raiyne]

Bleh. This is all so confusing. I tried to get some pics, but she's been unusually restless lately so they didn't come out very well. All of the pictures of her swollen belly came out so blurry you can't see what's going on. I got two that came out clearly, and I'm starting to feel like an idiot about her size. I laid down and tried to get her pressed next to me in a straight line, and she runs from my feet to a right about my shoulder, and I'm 5'7". So I don't know.

With the weight, I'm at a loss. I weighed her two years ago and it came out as 1032, so maybe that is correct on how much she weighed. Could the issue she has be causing her weight to increase? Or is she a lot smaller than I think she is? I've only seen one adult corn snake that wasn't Shesha and she's bigger than he was, but that's comparing only two sizes that I've ever seen. It could very well be that I'm just being an idiot and don't realize she's smaller than I think she is.

I'll get you guys some pictures in a bit.

 

[WingedSweetheart]

A corn snake can get over 1,000 grams. Generally corns that weight that much are overfed. So since you have been feeding her rats it doesn't seem hard to believe. A picture would help. Does she have hips (a bulge on each side of her tail)?

I'm not saying all 1,000 gram corns are over weight. There are some naturally big corn snakes. But it isn't a common occurrence. A picture would help us know if she needs a diet or is just a big snake.

A swim in luke warm water once a day or every couple of days can help with blockage. However I don't really understand. You say the vet removed the blockage. So if he removed it then there shouldn't be anything else in there for her to pass. Did the vet not remove it all or what? If there is nothing left in there then the baths seem unnecessary.

A corn can go a month without food no problem. So if she is still blocked, I would not feed anything until the blockage were gone. That would only add more to the blockage. If she is blockage free I would stop feeding rats and feed adult mice. Even if the ones at the pet store are smaller than you think they should be. I don't know how big they are because I have not seen them. But the ones at my pet store are usually 2-3 inches long. Plenty big enough for a weekly feeding. The ones I've ordered online are around the same size but very fat so I only feed those ever two weeks. A snake isn't going to starve just because a meal is a little smaller. I'm sure out in the wild they get meals of all different sizes and are just happy to have caught something. You could also try smaller mice like hoppers and feed two or three depending on the size. Some people bicker about feeding multiples vs single items. However I've done it many times with no ill effect when I have odd sized mice and want to finish up a bag before ordering more.

 

[diamondlil]

The vet let me see the X-Rays and said it didn't look like she was egg-bound, but she seemed hesitant about what it was, saying that she was pretty sure it was fecal matter. The X-Ray she showed me was zoomed in on the stomach, so I didn't see the blockage she mentioned.

I'd be pretty frustrated with a vet only being 'pretty sure' about matter they'd removed from one of my pets. After all, as you know, snake fecal matter is easy to identify! Did the vet look at it under a scope?
With the size of your snake, going without food for a while to let her stomach settle isn't going to be a big issue, she's not going to starve in a couple of weeks.
As for when she does start feeding again, large mice should be all she ever needs, to keep her healthy and active.

 

[heatwave]

1040 is not a *huge* push for a really big corn, not like 1400 is. Maybe you just misread the scale?

If you are 5'7 and she actually does stretch from foot to head that would put her at about the same size as Cowboy, and he was 974grams before winter.

Yes, any obstruction will cause an increase in weight, whether it be from a dense object, fecal build up, fluid retention etc. But 400 grams would be too big of an increase I would think unless shes got a MASS of eggs in there or something.... I mean I have adult corn snakes that weigh less then 400 grams.

 

[Raiyne]

I had trouble linking the photos and decided to use facebook. Linking them as images didn't seem to work, so I had to make the photos public and link them as a url.

These are blurry, but there are other objects to help for size perspective.

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10200721102733396&set=pcb.10200721121613868&type=1&theater

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10200721111293610&set=pcb.10200721121613868&type=1&theater


I think she looks big in most of the pictures, but when compared to my hand in this one, she seems smaller:

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10200721118653794&set=pcb.10200721121613868&type=1&theater

These are more clear:

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10200721105373462&set=pcb.10200721121613868&type=1&theater

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10200721108733546&set=pcb.10200721121613868&type=1&theater

 

[bitsy]

Yep she's "big-boned" alright. Diet time!

 

[heatwave]

She's a Beautiful albeit erm chunky gal!

 

[Raiyne]

Well, if you guys think she's "chunky" I'll definitely switch back to the mice. The rats are actually a lot more expensive than the mice, so if smaller will work then I have no problems down-sizing her meals. I'm grateful that you all could "weigh in" on the issue, so to speak.

It's frustrating how little information I have from the vet. I didn't pick her up to put her in her feeding box this time because I only had to open the viv and she crawled right up and into it on her own. It wasn't until she refused the meal that I started to worry, and then when I picked her up there was something SERIOUSLY wrong. She feels like a balloon and if you lift her up by her front end you can see the bulge slide down. There are also visible lumps, which is why I first thought she was gravid. Then the vet said she didn't think so and now $145 later I'm still in the dark.