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Bowel Obstruction

Raiyne said:
I called the vet to ask for her weight since they put her on the scale yesterday. I wanted to ask about the blockage but the receptionist seemed so annoyed at having to bring up her file that I chickened out. At yesterday's appointment, the vet said she'd call to check on us on Wednesday, so hopefully I'll feel more comfortable asking questions at that time.

Her weight, according to the vet, is 1.35 kg.
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Geez, what an awful receptionist. 5 seconds to look up a file and she gets annoyed? She needs a new job.

1.35 kg! Guess your scale wasnt off. Holy MONKEY.

I hate confrontation too...except when it comes to my animals, then I am hella confrontational. And I have really learned how to talk with vets over the years. Part of that is having been a vet tech for a loooong time, part of it is having umpteen gazillion animals and not having time for vets who dont treat my animals with as much care and importance as I would.

I wish I could call for you!!!!! Id get to the bottom of it, LMAO
 
I'd mention the receptionist's attitude to the vet, personally. You're a paying customer, and surely they don't want to lose your custom by being impolite?
 
Raiyne said:
Shesha came from a breeder who had intended to use her for her breeding program, but due to unfortunate life events, she had to sell most of her corns to help pay for hospital bills. She told me Shesha had been "super fed" to get her up to size as fast as possible for breeding and that she was a fine example of a "high white" reverse okeetee.
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In my limited experience of powerfed Corns, they do seem inclined to pile on the pounds for the rest of their lives - even on a more normal diet.

When I graduated from large mice to small rats, it was largely because Shesha didn't act like she used to after being fed. There wasn't a visible lump and she remained active rather than camping out on the warm side for a day or two. I felt bad about it, but I rarely fed her more often than two and a half weeks apart, and it wasn't uncommon for her to go 3 weeks between meals. I feel less bad about it now that I know she's not starving.
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Once they reach adult mice, the guideline about it leaving a lump after feeding no longer applies. That one's only for growing youngsters - otherwise you'd just continue increasing food size for the rest of their lives.

Most of mine are routinely fed at two week intervals on adult mice. The ones which were powerfed as youngsters (before I got them) usually have to be kept at either three week intervals or on small mice - sometimes both if I notice their weight increasing.

The worst thing I've done is that I no longer handle her like I used to. Maybe once ever two to three weeks, and usually that's for feeding or cleaning her viv. I've considered finding her a new home because of the health problems I've been dealing with and how little time I now spend with her, but I'm worried that someone else might not properly care for her in other ways such as temperatures, substrate, and cleaning.
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I don't believe that a lack of handling is really that significant in the problem building up. I rarely handle mine apart from taking them out to put them into their feeding tanks. Getting her feeding under control is the main thing.

How often should I be handling her now that I know she's overweight? Once a day? Three or four times a week? I take it from everyone's advice that she should go back to large mice maybe once every two weeks or so, but how long should I wait to start feeding her again?
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You could handle her as often as you and she can both tolerate really (althought not for a couple of days after eating).

I'd start with a small mouse to make sure that her digestion can cope with passing waste again. Wait until you know she won't be going to the vet for a while - carrying her round after she's eaten will risk a regurge. In your position I'd stick with one small mouse a fortnight and see if some of that weight shifts - it'll be a slow job now, but at least you're on the right road.

Good luck getting info out of the vet!
 
I brought her out again tonight, and she feels worse than yesterday. She's overweight, but there's definitely something else wrong. By posting the pictures on facebook, I got a reply telling me of a very experienced herp vet that has cared for their bearded lizards for years. I'm going to call them tomorrow. The thing about her puffed out sides is that it has a distinct starting point now. She's uniform, then suddenly she's bulging, like she's pregnant. It's getting worse.
 
She also seems weak. There's not much muscle resistance when I'm handling her. Like she's sleepy. I hope that's the pain meds.
 
Oh dear, I'm afraid that doesn't sound hopeful at all. I do feel for the pair of you. Not sure what time of the day it is now where you are, but I'd be calling the vet as soon as they're open. Sending good wishes your way.
 
And this new localised swelling is since your vet extracted some unidentified material from her? I'd be wanting exact descriptions of what they did, how the matter was extracted and eactly what it was. Did they inflate her bowel with gas to pass a scope up there or did they just blindly 'scoop' out the material? I'd be worried that her bowel was perforated during the procedure, as this is such a distinct change.
 
Oh no Raiyne, I'm so sorry. I was really hoping for fat deposits. I am sending you hugs and well wishes- I really hope she is ok! What pain meds was she put on? Is it oral or injectible?
 
It was an injection. The vet said it'd last forty eight hours. Blarg...I really need to get some sleep.
 
diamondlil said:
And this new localised swelling is since your vet extracted some unidentified material from her? I'd be wanting exact descriptions of what they did, how the matter was extracted and eactly what it was. Did they inflate her bowel with gas to pass a scope up there or did they just blindly 'scoop' out the material? I'd be worried that her bowel was perforated during the procedure, as this is such a distinct change.
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This is a concern I have as well.
 
I just read this thread. My thoughts and well wishes go out to you and your snake. I hope everything goes well. Were you able to get in touch with the new Vet?
 
Update:

I just got back from the clinic recommended by my friend on facebook. This new vet obviously knows a hell of a lot more about snakes than the previous one. Another X-Ray was taken (which came out better than the last), but after looking at it, the vet said she couldn't tell what the mass was without an ultra-sound. To keep costs down, she did that for free. It turns out Shesha is full of fluid. A sample was taken out with a needle (which wasn't pleasant for anyone involved) and she ran some preliminary labs on it (used a "spinner"), which was also done for free.

The results on the fluid are inconclusive. There were a few red and white blood cells, but nothing that would indicate an infection, and there wasn't any "free floating" bacteria. So the vet isn't sure what it is or how it developed. She gave me an estimate for treatment, and to afford the surgery (which is necessary anyway), I can't meet the costs of a full diagnostics. If everything was done, it would come out to about $600, and it doesn't help that I wasted $145 or so on the last vet. Without the full diagnostics, it'll be about $450 or so, and she said she'd keep samples of the fluid so if I ever changed my mind on the lab testing, I could.

Shesha is still at the clinic undergoing surgery... sort of. They have to sedate her to remove as much fluid as possible using a needle and syringe. The vet is worried that she might need to be tube fed for a while to keep her strength up, but I said I'd try her on pinkie or small mice first to see if she eats on her own. The vet doesn't think she's overweight, just that the amount of fluid makes her seem that way. It's probably been slowly building up for months, and it just took a while to become really obvious.

I'll be picking her up later tonight. I don't think my husband will be too happy at the costs, but the vet was optimistic about recovery and it would break my heart to withhold medical care for an animal that could live a long and healthy life if treated. I suppose the biggest question at this point is where the fluid came from and how it built up the way it did. Otherwise this could repeat itself.
 
Rayne! I'm so happy you found an excellent reptile vet. BRAVO for sticking it out! I know it's expensive but sounds like you found a wonderful new vet who really did get you an excellent deal!

I'm so angry at the first vet! I hope you can have your husband call and yell at them!

I really hope they figure out the cause of the excess fluid retention.
 
Wow - thank goodness you found the right person in the end. At least it sounds like you're on the right track now. Keep us posted - fingers crossed.
 
Shesha's home. She looks awful, but the vet said she's doing great. The skin around her belly was stretched pretty bad, so now she looks like a deflated balloon. It's hard to look at her without thinking she's dead, and I've checked her once or twice just to make sure she wasn't.

I was given a report on the procedure and it reads:

Physical Exam Findings:

Not eating, coelemic distention. X-rays show poor contrast, may have few ~1cm oval "masses" mid-body. US (ultrasound) showed large fluid pockets. Aspiration showed sersanguinous fluid, cytology: scattered RBC's (red blood cells) and WBC's (white blood cells), no bacteria seen.

Assessment:

Problem list: Ascites, Decreased appetite

Differential Diagnosis/Rule Outs: Cystic ovaries, Hepatitis, Acute Liver Failure/Disease, Neoplasia

Additional Notes

With sedation we were able to draw out ~25mls of serous fluid. There is still some fluid that could not be reached due to stretchy covering membranes that prevented the needle from connecting with it.

Plan

I have posted her case to VIN and will contact you once I know more. I recommend parasite testing and treatment if indicated by the test results. I have saved a portion of the fluid in case analysis by a pathologist is needed. Metacam is available if she seems uncomfortable even after the fluid removal.

Prognosis

Guarded

What does "guarded" mean? Is that bad?
 
Guarded prognosis is in between, but it's closer to bad than good. Generally speaking it goes: Excellent, good, fair, guarded, poor.

It's good that they didn't find bacteria in the fluid, meaning it's probably not from an intestinal rupture from the first vet. I haven't come across a situation that causes fluid in the body that wasn't bad though, :(

I'm hoping that it has something to do with breeding/follicles/ovulation something or other, which I don't have much knowledge on.
 
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