Calls to boycott Arizona are spreading like a virus

[jpccusa]

Where does it stop, then??? When has the American Tax Payer paid enough? 60%? 70%??? 80%?

You also can't tell me that they don't know HOW to do the correct thing... are you saying they're idiots? I give them credit at least when I say they have the smarts enough to KNOW they're mooching off of the American Tax Payer and people like you who think that whoever needs a "free ride" should get one.

I am not saying their idiots at all... To the contrary, they are pretty smart to find loopholes in the system and benefit from it (although I don't agree with free-riding).

And I am not saying anyone should get a free ride. I am a tax payer and I don't like how much of my salary is taken away, or how much property taxes I pay each month along with my mortgage. What I am saying is that given the chance, the parents would do the right thing.

 

[tsst]

Something I have often wondered. If our friends south of the border are so hard working and just want what is best for their families etc etc etc. Why don't they strive for those things in Mexico? Why don't they use that work ethic there to make Mexico just as good a place to live as here? :shrugs:

 

[jpccusa]

Something I have often wondered. If our friends south of the border are so hard working and just want what is best for their families etc etc etc. Why don't they strive for those things in Mexico? Why don't they use that work ethic there to make Mexico just as good a place to live as here? :shrugs:

Because the country probably don't have a good foundation. Perhaps their constitution is not as good (a place ruled by corruption?). Perhaps because the police is not as efficient (a place ruled by drug lords?). Perhaps the United States keeps messing up the Mexican economy, perhaps, perhaps...

I don't know Mexico well enough to say it for sure, but that is why I think people would rather integrate into American culture.

 

[The_Thunderer]

Jpcussa - Sorry, I can't remember your first name (or if I ever knew it! ). I must apologize if I seemed defensive/antagonistic towards you... I'm not... Just very frustrated. They've raised our taxes just recently (prop 100 PASSED... gosh darn it!) AND, the city of Phoenix has recently started taxing groceries - which means that the city of Mesa will likely follow suit. We're at almost 10% sales taxes now. Quite irritating.

AND EDIT... You posted before I could finish THIS rant.. LOL.
Many aren't INTERESTED in integration... they wave their "proud" flag around here way too often for that to be the case.

Something I have often wondered. If our friends south of the border are so hard working and just want what is best for their families etc etc etc. Why don't they strive for those things in Mexico? Why don't they use that work ethic there to make Mexico just as good a place to live as here? :shrugs:

You should have heard Mexico's President Calderon SLAM AZ - like his country is the epitome of ANYTHING bur corruption... on the White House lawn... WHILE OUR "esteemed" President watched and then in HIS speech agree. While President Obama may not agree with AZ's new law, he should be the FIRST one defending AZ's right as a state to try to determine their own destiny. He could even say something to the effect "While AZ may have overstepped its authority as a state with this law (which we are looking into), we must understand that AZ's local government is simply trying to protect the lives and livelihood of its citizens.". THAT, I could stand and honor... but his hogwash... UGH... He's American, isn't he? He's OUR President, isn't he? But no... he goes and attacks US.

Also... where was he when CHINA ranted and raved about AZ's law??? Like CHINA has any room to complain about human rights... (Christian persecution, forced abortions, etc. THEIR human rights record is appalling by ANY comparison). No.... he didn't defend us... instead his minions BOWED and APOLOGIZED for AZ simply trying to protect its own.

Anyone want to know what MEXICO does to illegal aliens? 2 years in JAIL first offense... up to 10 years for subsequent offenses. That is if you don't DISAPPEAR with all the corruption around there.

 

[Outcast]

They become *insert country/ethnicity*-AMERICANS. The vast majority of illegal immigrants still hold allegiances to their former countries (you'll NOTE that I did NOT say MEXICO as I KNOW there are illegals here from other countries).

You know, from what I remember, they become Americans. Unless you have dual citizenship to another country, you should not be known as an *insert country/ethnicity*-American. You are an American, live with it, or move to where you don't have to be one anymore.

 

[Outcast]

Forgot to add this little rant in there....

Our president is just as American as those trying to live in our country illegally. And just as corrupt as any drug lord south of the boarder. He has no respect for our rights, He does not remember what actually caused the Civil War. If he did, he would not be taking away States rights to govern themselves. We are on a fast track for a civil war and I know what side I will be on.. I also know of a lot of military members who will no longer be supporting our government if this happens.

 

[jpccusa]

Jpcussa - Sorry, I can't remember your first name (or if I ever knew it! ). I must apologize if I seemed defensive/antagonistic towards you... I'm not... Just very frustrated. They've raised our taxes just recently (prop 100 PASSED... gosh darn it!) AND, the city of Phoenix has recently started taxing groceries - which means that the city of Mesa will likely follow suit. We're at almost 10% sales taxes now. Quite irritating.

I'm JP, Fred... And I didn't feel you were defensive or antagonistic. I understand YOUR frustration.

On a separate note, "At 8.25%, California has the highest state sales tax, which can total up to 10.75% with local sales tax included" (Wikipedia)

He could even say something to the effect "While AZ may have overstepped its authority as a state with this law (which we are looking into), we must understand that AZ's local government is simply trying to protect the lives and livelihood of its citizens.". THAT, I could stand and honor... but his hogwash... UGH... He's American, isn't he? He's OUR President, isn't he? But no... he goes and attacks US.

Vehemently agreed!

I also found this article from today that I found pertinent to what has been sad before and is being discussed.

 

[Tara80]

On a separate note, "At 8.25%, California has the highest state sales tax, which can total up to 10.75% with local sales tax included"

Aye, because California allows illegals to take advantage of the system, they even condone it.

 

[jpccusa]

Forgot to add this little rant in there....

Our president is just as American as those trying to live in our country illegally. And just as corrupt as any drug lord south of the boarder. He has no respect for our rights,

I feel this is your opinion more than statements based on facts, so I can accept that.

He does not remember what actually caused the Civil War. If he did, he would not be taking away States rights to govern themselves.

Are you saying states should have been left alone to decide on "slavery" so a war would have been avoided? Are you saying that Obama should not try to protect people from being "racially profiled" so another war would be avoided?

 

[The_Thunderer]

I'm JP, Fred... And I didn't feel you were defensive or antagonistic. I understand YOUR frustration.

Thanks, JP!! I just wanted to be sure it wasn't misunderstood as a personal attack.

On a separate note, "At 8.25%, California has the highest state sales tax, which can total up to 10.75% with local sales tax included" (Wikipedia)

I don't know how recently that was updated... and from what I understand, our individual municipalities can ADD to the sales tax... Not state tax, but local city taxes on top (Just like yours). So when we go to the cash register, we're paying/will soon be paying between 9 and 10%. We're between 8 & 9% right now... but the recent tax increase will raise it to between 9 & 10%.

 

[jpccusa]

Aye, because California allows illegals to take advantage of the system, they even condone it.

You are PROBABLY right.

I'm glad you understood why I put that on my post (to show I can sympathize with both sides of the debate).

 

[Outcast]

Did you know that there were Southern States that Abolished slavery before the Civil War started. The whole "Civil War was a Slavery" thing is quite old and wrong. Not until late into the Civil War, did Slavery become a big issue in it.

I do not understand why people always say that Slavery is why the Civil War was started.That is total ignorance.

Obama has proven over and over that "He knows best" and that the states should not be governing themselves. He has no respect for the States rights and I definitely see another Civil War in the future if something is not done soon.

What I am saying, is that the state should be able to decide what laws they have in place, what health care they have in place, and what education they have in place, along with many other State Level things.

The Federal government should be worried about other things like boarder control (which they do a horrible job at) instead of taking away the states rights. They should focus on what they are supposed to be doing instead of dipping into other peoples koolaide (so to speak).

 

[ArpeggioAngel]

Just to clarify a point that I think was missed here....

JP stated this in regards to I believe Fred's post:

The kids are AMERICANS, trying to be part of the American culture and not their parents' culture.

However, what Fred posted was this:

All the while, they're actually living in Mexico with their parents.

So actually - NO - the kids he is talking about are NOT Americans. They are Mexicans taking a free ride on the local taxpayers to go to school in the US - when they do not EVEN LIVE HERE!!!!

And I agree - if you are caught without your papers in any country south of the border - be it Mexico, Panama, Brazil - wherever - you are THROWN IN JAIL. And as noted above - possibly disappear forever. So what right does Mexico or any other country have to give AZ any kind of BS for what they are doing right now? Talk about the pot calling the kettle black....

And JP - I do not care how damn hard, time consuming or damn near impossible it may be to get here legally - if you can't do it legally - then don't do it at all. Fight to make your own country a better place. Don't come to my country illegally and waive your little patriotic flags in my face.

 

[jpccusa]

Did you know that there were Southern States that Abolished slavery before the Civil War started. The whole "Civil War was a Slavery" thing is quite old and wrong. Not until late into the Civil War, did Slavery become a big issue in it.

I do not understand why people always say that Slavery is why the Civil War was started.That is total ignorance.

Yes, I am aware that there were Southern States that abolished slavery before the Civil War, although not ALL of them did. I thought that was the cause of the war.

I may be ignorant on this issue then since I humbly admit I don't know the "real" cause of the Civil War. I would be happy to learn from people here (the whole purpose of this entire forum is to learn something anyway).

The Federal government should be worried about other things like boarder control (which they do a horrible job at) instead of taking away the states rights. They should focus on what they are supposed to be doing instead of dipping into other peoples koolaide (so to speak).

Why would border control be a Federal government thing? If states "should be" so self sufficient, leave border control to border states then.

 

[wade]

The Federal Government is mandated the responsibility to secure our borders in The Constitution.

 

[jpccusa]

Just to clarify a point that I think was missed here....

JP stated this in regards to I believe Fred's post:

However, what Fred posted was this:

So actually - NO - the kids he is talking about are NOT Americans. They are Mexicans taking a free ride on the local taxpayers to go to school in the US - when they do not EVEN LIVE HERE!!!!

And I agree - if you are caught without your papers in any country south of the border - be it Mexico, Panama, Brazil - wherever - you are THROWN IN JAIL. And as noted above - possibly disappear forever. So what right does Mexico or any other country have to give AZ any kind of BS for what they are doing right now? Talk about the pot calling the kettle black....

And JP - I do not care how damn hard, time consuming or damn near impossible it may be to get here legally - if you can't do it legally - then don't do it at all. Fight to make your own country a better place. Don't come to my country illegally and waive your little patriotic flags in my face.

Perhaps you missed this post from Fred himself:

You were right, Betsy. According to the article, MOST of the kids are legal citizens. The problem is that the parents and the children LIVE in Mexico where they do not have to pay property taxes that fund the public school system. I DO appreciate that some of the parents are paying the tuition to have their kids in school... I have NO problem with that. It's the "free ride" mentality that is again, oh so AGGRAVATING!

So you were right and I stand corrected.

 

[jpccusa]

The Federal Government is mandated the responsibility to secure our borders in The Constitution.

The Constitution also protects people's rights, something that sometimes States infringe upon, for example same-sex marriage (present) and slavery (past).

 

[The_Thunderer]

So actually - NO - the kids he is talking about are NOT Americans. They are Mexicans taking a free ride on the local taxpayers to go to school in the US - when they do not EVEN LIVE HERE!!!!

In JP's defense, Katie, the article does mention that many of the kids were born here (making them American Citizens)... they just live south of the border because their parents are NOT legal citizens. It is in the article in my post.

One of the girls in the article is an EXEMPLARY example of a young AMERICAN CITIZEN doing well on her part! I just wish her parents would do it RIGHT (get legal, pay appropriate taxes, etc)!

 

[wade]

Nobody, State or Fed, has the right to infringe on other rights as outlined in the constitution. If it happens it is wrong and should be dealt with. All of our laws should be observed and obeyed by everyone. When people break the law they should fully expect to be prostituted and punished. If the laws are unfair or wrong there are proper channels to go through to correct that fact. No law should be ignored just because you think it is unfair or wrong.

 

[danielle]

Wade you just said prostituted and punished :roflmao: Sorry I'm dying laughing right now. I think you meant prosecuted and punished and I agree. I never understood how an illegal alien could give birth here in the states mind you for free and deliver a legal American citizen. Thats a loophole that would deter illegal immigration right there. Who cares where you squat and deliver your citizenship should determine your child's ultimately, and not the country you give birth in. I also don't care how "legal" our government perceives these kids if you live in Mexico you go to a school in Mexico- pretty simple as well. The bottom line is this is wrong legally, morally, and ethically. Arizona is doing the right thing in order to sustain their own economy and I see nothing wrong with that.

In every other country you are jailed, shot, or immediately deported EXCEPT ours- why? Line our borders with our troops and pluck them away like the sitting ducks they should be. Illegal immigration would cease entirely, our borders would be safer, crime could be reduced, and endless amounts of money saved- no one loses. If you aren't breaking the law your safe- if you are crossing illegally your toast. It wouldn't take long for people to decide crossing illegally wasn't worth it, jobs would be returned to Americans, and our schools could focus on teaching our children instead of teaching kindergartener's how to speak English