Calls to boycott Arizona are spreading like a virus

[The_Thunderer]

Not true. I personally agree with him. I gave up because really what can you say to people that think it's OK to KILL someone for illegally entering the country. To me that is a sad waste of human life. I can't participate in an argument when this is the mass sheep ugly mentality of the opponents. JP has the gift to be able to remain calm and continue to debate in a civil manner. Who care what JP's reasons are, just Kudos to him for being able to keep his cool. He is NOT alone in his way of thinking!!!

Jen, while I disagree with JP and, apparently, you, in a great number of things on this thread, I do not subscribe or condone the use of deadly force along the border as long as deadly force is not used by those trying to get in. The border needs to be secured... be it a wall, a fence, whatever. It needs to be patrolled and those who decide they want to cross in spite of these deterrents need to be punished in some manner - which, I will be honest, I can't think in what manner as of yet... perhaps emulate Mexico's illegal immigration penalties?

Of course I'm just kidding on that last part, but put it in there to show how "lightly" people get off while breaking our laws right now.

I think in the other things at least the three of us (you, me and JP) can agree? I hope so.

As for Wade's video - LOL. Personally, I think they PURPOSEFULLY say that they haven't read the law (when in fact I'm sure they have) as it gives them "free reign" to say ANYTHING they want about it... Then they can feign ignorance later...

As for Josh's post... Yay!!! 17 more!!!

 

[susang]

I have to say this post has become redundant and abusive, ah! but I guess that is acceptable because we are talking about law-breakers, I guess.
I am sorry but I don't care who you are or what your spiritual or relgious beliefs, killing a person is wrong. While the constituition is a great document and the rules of this country and taking church/state out of it. The majority of us a have a moral and ethical compass, free will and a logical mind.
SO WHAT IN ALL OF THAT GIVES ANYONE THE RIGHT TO SAY KILL THEM AND OTHERS TO SAY ' WELL SAID, I AGREE'. Not only as Jen said is it a waste of life, it is wrong. As for the pictures posted of the trash what did we leave in space but a bunch of trash. Pot meet kettle.
Now I will ask my question which is abusive and to the point.
Do you haters have compassion for anyone who is not caucasion/American born. Would you allow a child to starve, sick to go unattended because they don't have a document that says the are 'legal'. Are you so narcissitistic you think only you and your race deserves help.
I will also go back to my statement many who don't find jobs in this country aren't looking, therfore don't blame your short-comings on a group of people here working. Blame their employers, go ask to do the job for the same money they are getting.
This world consists of the human race first and then come in the colors and prejudices. Isn't possible we go back to the first, humanity care for and help all people and then who would care, if we are all happy and cared for. Some of this chit chat and hating and killing is making me sorry I am a member of the human race.

 

[wade]

Susan, I have to disagree with you on the essence of your post. I don’t think this is about haters at all. I don’t think it is about the color of anyone’s skin. I certainly don’t feel that way and I doubt anyone else does, or at least very few. Fred himself is a shade or two off of Caucasian. I also don’t believe many of us would condone lethal force unless it was in defense. I know it was said but I don’t think most of us would agree with that kind of activity.

It simply boils down to the fact that the huge influx of people from south of the boarder in causing a huge strain on the people of Arizona and the people of the USA in general. It is a serious problem that needs to be addressed. Combine that with the drug traffic coming from Mexico and other crimes related to illegal immigration, I think to not do something about it would be criminal in itself. Which is what the federal government has been doing.

 

[The_Thunderer]

SO WHAT IN ALL OF THAT GIVES ANYONE THE RIGHT TO SAY KILL THEM AND OTHERS TO SAY ' WELL SAID, I AGREE'. Not only as Jen said is it a waste of life, it is wrong. As for the pictures posted of the trash what did we leave in space but a bunch of trash. Pot meet kettle.

I think many of us here think that shooting someone for crossing the border is extreme. I DO think it was brought up because there are other countries that do the same and in light of this, many who cross our border and break our laws get away with little if any "punishment". I guess you could say some used the "shooting" example to "go to the extreme to make a valid point". Point missed, I guess.

Now I will ask my question which is abusive and to the point.
Do you haters have compassion for anyone who is not caucasion/American born. Would you allow a child to starve, sick to go unattended because they don't have a document that says the are 'legal'. Are you so narcissitistic you think only you and your race deserves help.

I don't know who you are speaking of, but who exactly are you calling "haters"? Is it "hateful" to expect that those who come to this country abide by our laws? Do you not expect that people who come into your house abide by your house rules - whatever they may be? How about an uninvited guest?

As for being compassionate... is there ONE other country out there that takes care of illegal immigrants the way this one does?? Free health care? Food stamps? Housing? I don't know, but I don't really think there IS a country that does for lawbreakers like these what the US does. So don't consider us "uncompassionate" because we're all tax payers who have paid for these services rendered with our hard earned money. How much more of our income should go to this bottomless pit? 50%??? 70%??? 80%??? Is it wrong to ask that they pay it back... or even simpler... to pay for their own? Is it wrong for us to ask them to work to make THEIR country (whichever one it may be) better so that they can enjoy in their country what our parents worked hard for in ours? Sheesh. Again, this "free handout/free ride" mentality sickens me.

Also, I am not caucasian... I'm a child of an immigrant great grandparent and an immigrant grandparent. Grandparents who came to this country legally... and "paid" for their citizenship by serving in WWII (one of who was a prisoner of war and survived the Bataan Death March). So, with this background, I guess you could say that I, like Danielle, am especially sensitive to the complete disregard for the law that illegal immigration is. Literally, it is a slap in the face of those like my ancestors who went through the process.

I don't think that anyone is a "hater" here... just folks who are tired of seeing lawlessness "rewarded" when it should be stopped.

Let's put it this way... someone invites themselves into YOUR home... helps themselves to your refrigerator, sleeps in your bed, uses your household goods... then turns around and says, "Hey, when are you gonna buy more toilet paper and buy some more groceries? Get to it would ya!" I think you'd be P/O'd too

Oh, wait... that's my own ungrateful son I'm talking about. LOL. J/K, but get the point?

 

[danielle]

"Do you haters have compassion for anyone who is not caucasion/American born. Would you allow a child to starve, sick to go unattended because they don't have a document that says the are 'legal'. Are you so narcissitistic you think only you and your race deserves help".

I am not caucasion so yes I have plenty of compassion for those who are not- but not those who knowingly break the law regardless of race or country of origin, I believe people should be punished for disregarding laws. Children of illegals do not starve or go sick because their parents aren't legal maybe I don't understand what your getting at. Legal or not hospitals can't and don't turn you away without receiving medical care and as far as starving there are millions of people around the world starving which is sad. However, children of illegals are the reason their illegal parents qualify for food stamps, can go to food banks, and have other community means to receive food just like any other legal citizen. Because there are so many people of all origins in need right now due to our recession these resources are slimming and no I don't think it's right a legal citizen goes without while an illegal one does not. Call me mean, racist, a bigot, or whatever you like, but yes I do believe legal citizens regardless again of race or country of origin should receive these resources first- it's called fair. There are children starving all over the world, people dying of AIDS without medical care, and homeless families in the millions- would I like to help them all? Yes. Can I? No and neither can you, our government, or anyone else. Thats called reality! So while I think I understand where your coming from I don't agree these are reasons to turn a blind eye on illegals coming into our country.

I agree there are people without jobs who are not looking either, but I disagree they can just take illegals jobs for the same pay- they can't because it's illegal and they unlike illegals must answer to the IRS once a year in the form of paying taxes and showing proof of employment and wages. Employers should be held accountable yes, but they aren't. If they were fewer illegals would be employed and even fewer would risk coming here with economic uncertainty hanging over their heads. Cracking down on these employers needs to happen and the AZ law and others that follow support that

As far as putting the human race first I agree. I don't care about one's religion, race, ethnicity, shape, size, and so on- we are all human and should be treated equally. With that in mind why is it such a bad thing to demand illegals are treated like us? Follow the law is all AZ is asking and since you support equality how could you have a problem with this? Humanitarianism is a beautiful idea I support, but come on the US can't heal the world and right every wrong. Look at all the poverty, illness, homelessness, and need we have in our own country. If we had the monetary resources to cure all that no one would be poor, homeless, or in need of care they can't access right? Since we have these issues already wouldn't it make a bit of sense to work on eliminating need here and then looking abroad?

I support helping people become legal, but I don't support states paying to deport one person nine times to have them continuously come back. Since our country has tried amnesty, given routes to come legally, and already deports those here illegally without any of these measures working the last resort is military action. In theory I don't believe in blinding killing someone, but I support the death penalty and protecting our borders because thats the utilitarian way to preserve society on the whole. I'm not saying shoot everyone that looks Mexican, Latino, or what have you and neither is anyone else. I'm saying guard our borders like EVERY other country does, hold those coming without papers, or passport; and if it is determined they have NO legal right to be here shoot them to avoid deporting them a dozen times because THEY ARE BREAKING THE LAW

 

[starsevol]

"Do you haters have compassion for anyone who is not caucasion/American born. Would you allow a child to starve, sick to go unattended because they don't have a document that says the are 'legal'. Are you so narcissitistic you think only you and your race deserves help".

I am not caucasion so yes I have plenty of compassion for those who are not- but not those who knowingly break the law regardless of race or country of origin, I believe people should be punished for disregarding laws. Children of illegals do not starve or go sick because their parents aren't legal maybe I don't understand what your getting at. Legal or not hospitals can't and don't turn you away without receiving medical care and as far as starving there are millions of people around the world starving which is sad. However, children of illegals are the reason their illegal parents qualify for food stamps, can go to food banks, and have other community means to receive food just like any other legal citizen. Because there are so many people of all origins in need right now due to our recession these resources are slimming and no I don't think it's right a legal citizen goes without while an illegal one does not. Call me mean, racist, a bigot, or whatever you like, but yes I do believe legal citizens regardless again of race or country of origin should receive these resources first- it's called fair. There are children starving all over the world, people dying of AIDS without medical care, and homeless families in the millions- would I like to help them all? Yes. Can I? No and neither can you, our government, or anyone else. Thats called reality! So while I think I understand where your coming from I don't agree these are reasons to turn a blind eye on illegals coming into our country.

I agree there are people without jobs who are not looking either, but I disagree they can just take illegals jobs for the same pay- they can't because it's illegal and they unlike illegals must answer to the IRS once a year in the form of paying taxes and showing proof of employment and wages. Employers should be held accountable yes, but they aren't. If they were fewer illegals would be employed and even fewer would risk coming here with economic uncertainty hanging over their heads. Cracking down on these employers needs to happen and the AZ law and others that follow support that

As far as putting the human race first I agree. I don't care about one's religion, race, ethnicity, shape, size, and so on- we are all human and should be treated equally. With that in mind why is it such a bad thing to demand illegals are treated like us? Follow the law is all AZ is asking and since you support equality how could you have a problem with this? Humanitarianism is a beautiful idea I support, but come on the US can't heal the world and right every wrong. Look at all the poverty, illness, homelessness, and need we have in our own country. If we had the monetary resources to cure all that no one would be poor, homeless, or in need of care they can't access right? Since we have these issues already wouldn't it make a bit of sense to work on eliminating need here and then looking abroad?

I support helping people become legal, but I don't support states paying to deport one person nine times to have them continuously come back. Since our country has tried amnesty, given routes to come legally, and already deports those here illegally without any of these measures working the last resort is military action. In theory I don't believe in blinding killing someone, but I support the death penalty and protecting our borders because thats the utilitarian way to preserve society on the whole. I'm not saying shoot everyone that looks Mexican, Latino, or what have you and neither is anyone else. I'm saying guard our borders like EVERY other country does, hold those coming without papers, or passport; and if it is determined they have NO legal right to be here shoot them to avoid deporting them a dozen times because THEY ARE BREAKING THE LAW

Beautifully said, and for that last paragraph let me say that is where I stand as well. I am NOT for just blindly shooting border jumpers, or people who look "foreign". Lethal force should only be used as a last resort. If it must be used, it should be used only after an illegal has been caught in this country x number of times, after repeated warnings that if he is caught here after so many times he will be executed. If he knows and understands that the next time he is caught he will be shot, and comes back anyway, then it is what it is.
Something has to happen, and soon. Things can't keep going on like this.

 

[The_Thunderer]

Beautifully said, and for that last paragraph let me say that is where I stand as well. I am NOT for just blindly shooting border jumpers, or people who look "foreign". Lethal force should only be used as a last resort. If it must be used, it should be used only after an illegal has been caught in this country x number of times, after repeated warnings that if he is caught here after so many times he will be executed. If he knows and understands that the next time he is caught he will be shot, and comes back anyway, then it is what it is.
Something has to happen, and soon. Things can't keep going on like this.

The guy in Wade's link comes to mind... Understand he's been deported 9 times, has sexually assaulted at least two women and committed several other crimes. I would have no problem having him dealt with in an extremely harsh manner... he (and others like him) CANNOT be allowed to come back after doing such things.

 

[danielle]

I think all child predators and rapists should be eliminated. What form of prejudice would that be called,lol? J/K, but seriously when one gets deported 9 times and has already violated 2 women because our Federal government fails repeatedly to keep them out of our country what are we supposed to do? Allow this man to keep raping women, or shoot him to prevent him from violating women in any country permanently? I go the permanent route personally

 

[Drizzt80]

I think all child predators and rapists should be eliminated. What form of prejudice would that be called,lol? J/K, but seriously when one gets deported 9 times and has already violated 2 women because our Federal government fails repeatedly to keep them out of our country what are we supposed to do? Allow this man to keep raping women, or shoot him to prevent him from violating women in any country permanently? I go the permanent route personally

:cheers:
D80

 

[Drizzt80]

Not sure if this has been posted yet . . . I know it's from August last year . . . it's status??



:shrugs:
D80

 

[susang]

Let's lighten this up, lI tried with a thriad on the weather, asking for pippy pics whatever to stop this whatever it is, well that got me:headbang:

Let's put it this way... someone invites themselves into YOUR home... helps themselves to your refrigerator, sleeps in your bed, uses your household goods... then turns around and says, "Hey, when are you gonna buy more toilet paper and buy some more groceries? Get to it would ya!" I think you'd be P/O'd too

Oh, wait... that's my own ungrateful son I'm talking about. LOL. J/K, but get the point?

So how do you know my kids, because that is exactly how they are J/K and at the same time true. Big weekend our house lots of food and toilet paper. We found garbage rib bones, cans, corn cobs... all over our back yard and in raised beds. Life goes on and we buy more toilet paper.:roflmao:

I am first generation American, while I don't agree with people coming to this country illegally and I know some illegals abuse the system. Many legals abuse the system and where I live at least the legals are the majority of the abusers. It is hard for me totally understand because I live in such a non-diverse community. I have lived and worked in SO CA so have some idea of what is going on.

One more thing how is it illegal to ask to do the job you see an undocumented doing? As long as you claim the money and pay the taxes.

 

[danielle]

It's illegal to pay someone less than minimum wage so if that illegal is paid less than the minimum wage then yes it is. I live in Washington, DC so my community is diverse,lol Day laborer sites line our 7-11's, home depots, and other parking lots making it impossible to park half the time. Our public schools are underfunded and flooded with the cutest non english speaking kids taking away from other children's classroom time. As a matter of fact in my area whites are the minority. Once nice neighborhoods are no longer so nice, drug crimes have doubled, as well as rapes. Now I know some wonderful illegals and decent hard working families so don't take this the wrong way, but much of our local illegal immigrant issues have been negative and this is coming from me who is not of white descent I think if you have come here multiple times illegally and killed, raped, or abducted anyone you should be permanently removed, but I feel the same way about legal citizens too

Something has to be done and Drizz I like dead offenders too

 

[jpccusa]

I was out for the weekend so let me quickly address some of the posts.

Eric, I noticed my bookworm looks like Wade's snake, but like you said "Imitation is the highest form of flattery"

Danielle, I appreciate your posts. Although you are "a little" tougher than I am, I see we agree in some aspects of what needs to be done with illegal immigrants already here and to prevent more from coming.

Wade, I understand you don't have to prove me wrong or do the research for me, but being ignored after posting articles and reports (as I tried to do throughout this thread, trying to prove myself correct) makes me feel like I wasted my time looking for them. The beauty of debating is the ability to see both sides of an issue, even though you agree with only 1 side. Rest assured my shinny is not wearing off. I engage in debates for the fun of it (hence me still being here and "fighting the world"). Your question did not upset me and I apologize if my answer was less polite than it should have been.

Thanks to those who spoke up and proved I am not alone against the world. Many people agree with me, but they rather be spectators than contributors. I knew I was not alone because of the rep points I keep receiving.

Regarding the 17 states joining AZ, I actually see it as a good thing... The Congress and White House are starting to feel the pressure to do something at a national level, something I find to be extremely urgent and necessary.

Today I read this article (something related to what Outcast aforementioned regarding civil unrest).

 

[jpccusa]

I came across this book/website today, recommended by a friend. Although I haven't read it yet, I will do so soon.

About the book, which deals with how runaway slaves, suffragists, immigrants, strikers & poets shaped civil liberties in California:

The first-ever account of the struggle to develop and protect rights in the Golden State, Wherever There's a Fight captures the sweeping story of how freedom and equality have grown in California, from the gold rush right up to the precarious post-9/11 era. The book tells the stories of the brave individuals who have stood up for their rights in the face of social hostility, physical violence, economic hardship, and political stonewalling.

 

[tsst]

I came across this book/website today, recommended by a friend. Although I haven't read it yet, I will do so soon.

About the book, which deals with how runaway slaves, suffragists, immigrants, strikers & poets shaped civil liberties in California:

No offense JP, but California is the last state example I want to follow. Or did you mean as reference for what NOT to do. :roflmao:

 

[wade]

runaway slaves, suffragists, immigrants, strikers & poets

Great description of the people of California however.

 

[jpccusa]

No offense JP, but California is the last state example I want to follow. Or did you mean as reference for what NOT to do. :roflmao:

None taken, and I guess if you are not a runaway slave, suffragist, immigrant, striker or poet, there won't be much of an example for you to follow anyway. :nyah:

Jokes apart, I will read it with the intent to learning something about civil liberties' history and why CA is how it is (great or awful, depending on each person's point of view).

Going back to topic, I somewhat agree with this article, although I find it a little too lefty eek1::eek1:).

 

[Outcast]

I find it a little too lefty eek1::eek1:).

I never expected to see you say that.:roflmao:

 

[jpccusa]

I never expected to see you say that.:roflmao:

Why?!?! Just because I LOVE Rachel Maddow?!?!? :roflmao:

Well, to explain why I find it to be too lefty, in order to be fair with legal immigrants, I think illegal ones should pay a fine for braking the law(s), something that the author of the article does not include on his idea of a comprehensive immigration reform.

 

[Outcast]

Why?!?! Just because I LOVE Rachel Maddow?!?!? :roflmao:

Well, to explain why I find it to be too lefty, in order to be fair with legal immigrants, I think illegal ones should pay a fine for braking the law(s), something that the author of the article does not include on his idea of a comprehensive immigration reform.

The author did mention back taxes.