Calls to boycott Arizona are spreading like a virus

[wade]

I read a poll this morning that said 58% of Americans think Illegal Immigration is their number one concern today. Even above the economy! Imagine.

 

[wade]

Do you get any good jokes in your email?

 

[Outcast]

Wade, that is awesome.

 

[Dinah]

Wade in regards to post 701 you have got to change where you shop and vacation at. My grocery store doesn't ask for ID, I don't think they care who I am. Why would your grocer care about your ID? Same for a hotel? I do not drive so I do not routinely carry ID and I never have a problem. The only time I am ever asked for ID is on a plane, train, or if I want to cash a check at the bank. Since I am obviously of legal drinking age even the liquor store doesn't care who I am anymore. If people ask me for ID my reply is always the same I don't care who you are. "Why?" "Am I required to provide it to you?"

I do get asked for my phone number and email address often by stores (not like Dr's offices or places that need to contact me, I am talking about shops), but I always say no about giving it to them. They can take my business and money or they can leave it, but my personal information is on a need to know basis both with my govt and with the people I do business with. I always thought that everyone felt that way :shrugs:. I have always considered it awfully forward and rude of the stores to be asking such things. Am I the only one?

 

[kathylove]

Anytime I have ever checked in at a hotel, I am ALWAYS asked for ID, even when paying with cash. I assume it is so that they know how to find me if I steal or wreck stuff. Stores usually only ask if you pay by check. Some ask if you pay by credit card, although that may be against the rules of the CC company - not sure about that.

 

[Ricky87]

I read a poll this morning that said 58% of Americans think Illegal Immigration is their number one concern today. Even above the economy! Imagine.

Totally ironic since I think the biggest concern to Americans today is ignorance...Broadcast illegal immigration statistics on CNN and it's the biggest concern facing America; same goes with the economy, the Obama Administration, the BP Oil spill, and then the occasional right to bear arts.....Go figure. It's all rooted to the same susceptibility of people to the media, as it relates to their fears. In reality illegal immigration is just one small fragment of American society. All these stereotypes and cartoons show us things we want to see, and not things as they truly are...Just my opinion, but I blame Americans. We are our own worst enemy for sure.

 

[wade]

You are partly correct Ricky, missed you by the way. We are partly to blame for a lot of stuff. The media is largely to blame for more stuff. That doesn't change the problem. Ignorance is a good demon. Should we have MSNBC educate us?

Nellie, I'm glad that you could only find fault with one of the 13 cartoons I posted. I live in a relatively small community. I am asked for ID when I cash a check, when I go to the doctor, frequently. I personally don't find it a hardship to carry that great big piece of paper.

 

[Dinah]

I didn't mean to find fault with your cartoons, cartoons are supposed to be funny thinking makes them less fun. I was just surprised that so many people are cool with random places being nosy. I am almost never asked for ID and I just assumed that was also most peoples experiences. I know that I grew up in a smallish town where the grocery clerk likely knew you personally and probably attended your last birthday party so they knew exactly how old you are, but I did then move to Orlando where nobody knows anyone, and I have traveled a fair amount as well. So I had never considered that my particular experience was unique. I assumed that my frequency was typical of most peoples. Except that I do not drive an automobile and I always follow all of the laws applicable to my bike so I have never been stopped by an officer for anything regarding traffic. I have been asked to identify myself once to an officer when I was attending a protest. But he did not need or care about my ID, he said so long as I answered him honestly I was within the law.

I also know that my father taught me to always question why someone is asking your for personal information. Some of his formative time was when then Conch Republic was formed because of an inappropriate border crossing, so I can tell you exactly where I got my quirk from, him.

However, seriously for a second. Your ID number is an important piece of information that is in your best interest to keep safe and as private as possible. It is linked to your identity just as closely as your social security number is. If someone has that number they have a lot of what they need to steal your identity and they have your address so they know where to go to look for the rest of the info they need. If you choose to write a check and you present ID , then they have your license number and your bank account number. While certainly I do not think that a typical doctors office asks you for ID because of some elaborate scheme so that your doctor can steal your identity and sell it on the black market. But what about the clerk at the desk? How do I know if that kid* is here working this job because they are in school to be a doctor and they want to get real office experience, or is that kid working an angle? Do they have anything to gain if they if they were able to have access to my ID, insurance information, and bank account number (from the check I wrote to pay for the service) or credit card number. I mean god forbid some insurance paper has my social security number printed on it because then that clerk would have everything they needed to be me. Even if they aren't some sort of criminal mastermind, it doesn't take a genius to open a fraudulent credit card account. *kids are not the only kinds (or even typical kinds) of criminals this is just an example.

Wade I thought about responding to "I personally don't find it a hardship to carry that great big piece of paper." With a bit of sass to keep things fun I was going to say "Yeah well I bet you have a car to help carry you and that piece of paper around in, while I haul my own self and gear." But to be honest I haul myself and two kids on my bike along with everyones water/snacks/books and all the typical gear that you would need for a day out with kids and it is no problem to do it. So I can't actually argue that a tiny bit of plastic would be too much to carry when I already haul at least 100lbs behind my bike typically. But just because it is possible for me to carry, I will be honest I doubt I am going to start carrying it. I feel much better knowing that my personal information is safely tucked away in the gun safe with the rest of our important papers. I have always thought it was another example of the burdens associated with operating a car, that drivers have to be so responsible of their personal information all of the time, because if you want to drive you have to have it on you.

 

[Dinah]

Also to note so I don't sound like a paranoid loon. I do not think that most folks are out to get me. In fact I almost always encounter people who wish to be helpful, but I just think it is important to not tempt those who can be tempted, and certainly it is important to not provide an opportunity to someone who is looking for one. Don't just hand out the tools people need to victimize you with. That would be like putting a basket of guns at the front door in case the robber who broke in needed one.

 

[jpccusa]

That's our Wade and his collection of newspaper clippings with anecdotal text/cartoons. At least they lighten up the mood of the conversation since they are extremely biased and somewhat funny. Thanks Wade!

ICE chief says immigration enforcement needs overhaul

Immigration officials must prioritize their limited resources on criminal and new illegal immigrants when it comes to deportations, John Morton, assistant secretary of homeland security for Immigration and Customs Enforcement, told a group of sheriff's officials gathered Tuesday morning for a national convention.

Morton also stressed the need for local agencies to work with federal officials in enforcing laws.

There are roughly 10.8 million people living illegally in the United States, while ICE officials have the capability to deport about 400,000 a year, Morton said at the annual National Sheriff's Association conference at the Anaheim Marriot. The association represents more than 3,000 sheriffs.

"We don't have the resources we need to address every issue we face in every single county across the country," Morton said. "We live in a world of limited resources, so we have to focus on criminal offenders, on gang members, on people who game the system or just (recently) came across the border illegally."

The comments come about a month after Morton told the editorial board of the Chicago Tribune that the agency might not process illegal immigrants referred to it by Arizona officials. A new Arizona law requires law enforcement to ask for documentation of legal status of people who are stopped on suspicion of violating another law when the officer has reasonable suspicion.

Morton said that comprehensive federal immigration change is needed and that the agency would be ready to address immigration issues when change is achieved in Washington.

"I think that everyone agrees that the present system isn't working particularly well, regardless of what side of the spectrum you're on or the view you have on illegal immigration," Morton said. "The devil, of course, is in the details. In the meantime, my focus is on strong law enforcement."

Sheriff Larry Dever of Cochise County, Ariz., said he agreed with Morton's statement about ICE's need to prioritize cases, but he said he remained concerned that decisions regarding law enforcement and illegal immigration might be based on political issues and not safety.



Dever, who also chairs the association's Immigration and Border Safety Committee, said he was particularly sensitive to the subject since the shooting of Robert Krentz in March. Krentz, a member of one of the county's oldest ranching families, is believed to have been helping an illegal immigrant when he was shot. ICE officials have been assisting Cochise County with the investigation, Dever said.

"We have to get the worst crooks first, you target it," Dever said. "(But) you can't do it to the exclusion of other law-enforcement needs."

President Barack Obama will be requesting $600 million in supplemental funding for ICE, and Morton said that may translate to more Border Patrol agents along the southern and northern borders. ICE is also working on expanding and streamlining the Secure Communities program, which helps to identify illegal immigrants who may be detained on other offenses by local law enforcement when they are booked in county jails. ICE plans on having that system become instantaneous during the booking process and to be included in all jurisdictions in the country.

But with limited resources, Morton said his challenge lies in prioritizing.

"We're going to need some sort of reform that addresses that we have 10.8 million people here who are here unlawfully and many have been here for a very, very long time," Morton said. "My challenge as the head of ICE is how to use those 400,000 spots thoughtfully."

Dever said the relationship between local law enforcement officials and ICE has been cooperative in the most part, but he remains concerned about what may be included in a future immigration overhaul, stating he opposed any type of amnesty for illegal immigrants.

"If you don't stop the flow, you can't clear up the problem," Dever said. "You have to secure your border first, or no immigration reform will work."

 

[tsst]

... they are extremely biased and somewhat funny. ...

That's the same thought I had when you posted Maddow blatherings! We were close to agreeing!
:grin01::roflmao:

 

[EsotericForest]

I'm so annoyed with how our country is reacting to this garbage. What part of illegal immigrant is so difficult to understand? Illegal means, they're here illegally! I don't give a crap what nationality you are. If you're Canadian, and here illegally, you should be shipped back to your own country. The United States is a country of immigrants, most of which took the time to come here in the proper, and legal way. My family came here from Poland not too many generations ago, and they did it in the proper way. Arizona is just reflecting what is already written in the federal law, and I give them credit for standing up to it.

 

[kathylove]

Maybe it would have been less controversial if...

the law had just been written that EVERYONE who is stopped for anything will have to provide ID. If the ID doesn't check out as real, then they would already have reason to hold you until they figure out if you are a mass murderer or something like that, I would think. But since it seems that is already true (about having to show ID when stopped), why didn't they just start doing that (checking IDs)?

We have WAY too many laws, with too many nuances and details, for any normal person to ever understand them. What we need is a lot less laws, to be selective about which bills become laws, and then actually enforce those FEWER laws that make it on the books. But it will never happen. Politics won't work that way...

 

[EsotericForest]

Politics is never that easy. They like to make things difficult

 

[Dinah]

. But since it seems that is already true (about having to show ID when stopped), why didn't they just start doing that (checking IDs)?

While I recognize that AZ has changed its law to make having an ID necessary I want to clear up any confusion. In FL you do not currently have to provide an ID unless you are driving. As of now in FL and in most places that is the case. However if an officer has authority to stop you, then they do have the authority to ask you to identify yourself, and you are legally required to do so honestly, but you are not legally required to do so with an ID card. You can identify yourself verbally and that is within the law, again provided you were not stopped while operating a motor vehicle.

 

[EsotericForest]

I'm not sure verbal verification is exactly good enough. Especially since most people over 18 have a form of ID on them almost all the time.

 

[Dinah]

I'm not sure verbal verification is exactly good enough. Especially since most people over 18 have a form of ID on them almost all the time.

But as the receptionist at the DMV will tell you people are not legally required to own govt issued ID nor are they legally required to drive. So that is why they cannot legally force you to present it to a LEO, because legally your not required to own it. I am sure of this I already posted the only non automobile related law that FL has on the books about identifying yourself and no where in it does it say you are required to have or present an officer with your govt issued or any other ID.

 

[EsotericForest]

Alright, that makes sense.

 

[Dinah]

I always come across as arguing and really I am not arguing ( I swear it doens't matter to me what people put in their wallets or pockets) most people do drive and so for the vast majority of people they do have to present their license when law enforcement asks for it (typically if you are a normal law abiding citizen when else would you be asked). However if you don't drive then there end up being lots of times when you don't have to have govt ID, so for me it is safer and more convenient to keep it locked up at home. And I am the type bristle when people think that legally they *have* to do something so if I know that isn't the case then I try to you know spread the word. I am not against the AZ law if I am ever happen to be in AZ I will just be sure to make a nice slot in my wallet for my ID and I agree it isn't a big deal to carry it, but if it ever really isn't convenient to you then know there are times when it is ok to leave it back at home.

Sometimes I hop on my bike and I can just grab a water bottle and my debit card and be set for the day but even sans ID I am still totally being a law abiding citizen. That was my only real point, that and make sure you trust whoever you give you ID to, who people trust is up to them but just think about it.

 

[jpccusa]

I completely agree with you Kathy... it is impossible to keep up with all this silly small laws.

Thanks Nelly. You brought good points and clarification to this discussion.

And don't forget that President Obama will be talking about a comprehensive immigration reform tomorrow (Thursday 07/01/2010) at 7:30am Pacific Time, which by the way, I will be watching on MSNBC, the place for politics.