Can snakes be fed a vegan diet?

[Teddy Roosevelt]

I haven't raised chickens long enough to have any that are too old to lay....so I *can't* really answer it.

What're you going to do when they get there?

 

[amazondoc]

What're you going to do when they get there?

I think I'll worry about that bridge when I get to it. As I mentioned in my earlier post, that rarely actually happens.

The question you SHOULD be asking is -- what do you do with all the extra roosters?

 

[Teddy Roosevelt]

I think I'll worry about that bridge when I get to it. As I mentioned in my earlier post, that rarely actually happens.

The question you SHOULD be asking is -- what do you do with all the extra roosters?

Hypothetically, let's say you are at that bridge. You have hens that're on their last legs. What do?

And what DO you do with the extra roosters, Mr. High-and-mighty Ethics?

 

[amazondoc]

Hypothetically, let's say you are at that bridge. You have hens that're on their last legs. What do?

And what DO you do with the extra roosters, Mr. High-and-mighty Ethics?

That's **Dr.** High-and-mighty Ethics to you, buddy.

Roosters -- I maintain two rooster flocks (aka bachelor herds in some species) with many of the extra roosters. I sell some to other breeders or folks with backyard flocks. When I got into chickens I tried to carefully choose my breeds for rarity and marketability, in part so that the roosters would be a bit less difficult to get rid of. I have never, yet at least, sold any for eating or had to kill any for anything other than medical issues. But disposition of extra roosters is a major issue when keeping large numbers of chickens.

Old hens -- "on their last legs" implies suffering. I would be likely to euth (kill) an old hen that was suffering. An old hen that is healthy is probably still laying. I would not euth a hen just because her egg production had slowed down.

 

[ComoxCorn]

The old hens get turned into stew hens, the roosters, well if you sex them early enough, make good eatin chickens at 39 days, forget the bachelor herd. 39 days makes a great finger lickin' good chicken. I know this for fact, all of KFC's birds are butchered at 39 days.
Back to your moral dilemma though.......you stated earlier you have this concern with how many animals deaths you are directly responsible for, yet you're willing to try out wild mice for your snakes diet. Whether or not you kill the mice first, are you still not responsible for the death of the mouse???? Comparison if this doesn't make sense. If I tossed someone off a bridge and they drown, am I responsible or would the death be considered an accidental drowning.
Did I mention to kill of those roosters at 39 days? Oh, another thought.....why so many roosters if you are only an egg producer???? Are you selling fertile chicken eggs???? Yuk!!!

 

[amazondoc]

The old hens get turned into stew hens, the roosters, well if you sex them early enough, make good eatin chickens at 39 days, forget the bachelor herd. 39 days makes a great finger lickin' good chicken. I know this for fact, all of KFC's birds are butchered at 39 days.

I don't know whether that 39 day claim is true or not -- but it would not work apply to my birds, in any case. You see, KFC's suppliers use specially bred broiler chickens that gain weight much faster than most breeds -- and then they overfeed those birds to push weight gain even faster. It is relatively common for such birds to not even be able to WALK by the time they are butchered. But that's another discussion for another time.

Back to your moral dilemma though.......you stated earlier you have this concern with how many animals deaths you are directly responsible for, yet you're willing to try out wild mice for your snakes diet. Whether or not you kill the mice first, are you still not responsible for the death of the mouse????

Jeez, have you really been ignoring everything I've written already??

I'll summarize for ya:

Wild mice -- unavoidable side effect of chicken farming. Eat feed that should go to chickens, overpopulate, destroy property, fire hazard (chew wires), you name it. Not good to have around. Their numbers must be controlled, with or without captive snakes to eat them.

Feeding wild mice instead of domestic -- Wild mice must die anyway. Might as well make use of their deaths. If wild mice used as food, then only 1 death (wild mouse) instead of 2 (wild mouse dies anyway, PLUS domestic mouse dies).

HOWEVER -- disease transmission is a significant risk even with freezing -- so, I'm not doing it -- for now, at least.

Oh, another thought.....why so many roosters if you are only an egg producer???? Are you selling fertile chicken eggs???? Yuk!!!

I never said I was "only" an egg producer. Again, please try to READ what I write. Being forced to repeat myself gets really annoying and time-consuming.

I have mostly rare breeds. I produce eggs, which I sell for hatching and give to my family and friends for eating. I also breed chicks, which I occasionally sell to other breeders and backyard chicken keepers. And no, there's nothing yucky about a fertile chicken egg. Well, unless you let it develop for awhile before you crack it open -- then it's pretty yucky.

 

[ComoxCorn]

Wild mice -- unavoidable side effect of chicken farming. Eat feed that should go to chickens, overpopulate, destroy property, fire hazard (chew wires), you name it. Not good to have around. Their numbers must be controlled, with or without captive snakes to eat them.

Well, the dilemma here involves all those dogs you have. Any farm dog worth its salt will chomp down a mouse given the opportunity. The dogs also make it not possible to have barn cats which can really keep the mouse population proportionate. So really it's your bad choices that you have so many mice IMO. Maybe if you cleaned up around the barn a little, the conditions wouldn't be so suitable for the mice to overpopulate. Mice don't overpopulate when conditions aren't suitable.

 

[amazondoc]

Well, the dilemma here involves all those dogs you have. Any farm dog worth its salt will chomp down a mouse given the opportunity. The dogs also make it not possible to have barn cats which can really keep the mouse population proportionate. So really it's your bad choices that you have so many mice IMO. Maybe if you cleaned up around the barn a little, the conditions wouldn't be so suitable for the mice to overpopulate. Mice don't overpopulate when conditions aren't suitable.

Yeah, you try to keep a large number of chickens and THEN talk to me about mice..... :roflmao:

As for the dogs -- obviously, the dogs can't have access to the areas in which the chickens live. The dogs would be just as happy to eat the chickens as the mice. Try to THINK about these things before you make more silly comments, okay?

 

[ComoxCorn]

I raised ring necked pheasants and merriam turkeys for a number of years. I never had the mouse problems you mention. I produced approx. 1500 pheasants a year and about 120 turkey poults. So yes, I DO understand, yet mice caused very little problem.
I might add, I kept things tidy, had a couple of barn cats too.

 

[amazondoc]

I raised ring necked pheasants and merriam turkeys for a number of years. I never had the mouse problems you mention. I produced approx. 1500 pheasants a year and about 120 turkey poults. So yes, I DO understand, yet mice caused very little problem.

And how many adults were on your property at any given time? And on pasture, or pens? And how many mouse traps and/or mouse poison stations? Fess up, now.

 

[ComoxCorn]

And how many adults were on your property at any given time? And on pasture, or pens? And how many mouse traps and/or mouse poison stations? Fess up, now.

I raised most pheasants and all turkeys to maturity, so 1200 - 1500 pheasants and approx 150 merriams turkeys. But all my feed was kept in steel bins. Grower crumbles were dispensed with standing galvanized poultry feeders. Sorry to disappoint, never had to use poion or traps for mice. Birds were in 120' X 70' pens as growers and adults. Hatchlings and poults were kept in indoor pens.

 

[Pal-O-Mine]

Personally, I was raised on venison, goose, duck and pheasant meat most of my childhood days. Should I even bother to inform you what my opinion on this thread is????Is it really worth the typing???

Funny how this thread has taken on a life of its own!

Devon

 

[LBoz]

Hey, Amazondoc....I'm having trouble following the course of this thread, but I have to give you MAJOR props for keeping a cool head when you're being baited at every turn. I have no answers or suggestions for your dilemma, but I absolutely admire your patience and willingness to continue the discussion. :cheers:


And to one particular person who is laying down major judgement...keep in mind that a mere few months ago, you wanted to feed your cornsnakes crickets and earthworms. We love ya, but chill a bit, eh?

 

[Lennycorn]

But...but...I know it ALL!!!





:crazy02:

 

[Hypancistrus]

I don't know whether that 39 day claim is true or not -- but it would not work apply to my birds, in any case. You see, KFC's suppliers use specially bred broiler chickens that gain weight much faster than most breeds -- and then they overfeed those birds to push weight gain even faster. It is relatively common for such birds to not even be able to WALK by the time they are butchered. But that's another discussion for another time.

Interesting info. What is your source?

 

[Outcast]

Yeah, you try to keep a large number of chickens and THEN talk to me about mice..... :roflmao:

As for the dogs -- obviously, the dogs can't have access to the areas in which the chickens live. The dogs would be just as happy to eat the chickens as the mice. Try to THINK about these things before you make more silly comments, okay?

I have personally had chickens all my life, for eggs, for shows, for eating and just to have in the back yard because i love chickens. I know for a fact that you can train your dogs not to eat the chickens, because i have done it with many dogs... Also, you can train the dogs not to kill the cats in much the same way. Though your dogs are probably too old to do that with, since its much better to start out with puppies...

oh, and to the person saying "yuk" to selling fertile eggs, They taste the same as a non-fertile egg.

 

[ceduke]

I have personally had chickens all my life, for eggs, for shows, for eating and just to have in the back yard because i love chickens. I know for a fact that you can train your dogs not to eat the chickens, because i have done it with many dogs... Also, you can train the dogs not to kill the cats in much the same way. Though your dogs are probably too old to do that with, since its much better to start out with puppies...

oh, and to the person saying "yuk" to selling fertile eggs, They taste the same as a non-fertile egg.

YOU try training my JRT not to eat chickens. Good luck! Some dogs can be trained to leave them alone, some cannot. When I had chickens, I never worried about my mom's coyote mix hurting them, she was very restrained around all of our other animals. Looking back, we were really lucky that she was. My current dog though...it's taken me over a year to get him to "leave it" SOMETIMES when he sees a squirrel. He will never be 100% trustworthy around 'prey' animals.

 

[Emily1188]

YOU try training my JRT not to eat chickens. Good luck! Some dogs can be trained to leave them alone, some cannot. When I had chickens, I never worried about my mom's coyote mix hurting them, she was very restrained around all of our other animals. Looking back, we were really lucky that she was. My current dog though...it's taken me over a year to get him to "leave it" SOMETIMES when he sees a squirrel. He will never be 100% trustworthy around 'prey' animals.

Is your dog JRT/Dachshund? My BF's little dog is JRT/Doxie/Beagle and he would KILL a chicken, no question asked. I'm sure he could be trained be safe around chickens WITH the owner present... alone? No way, yikes!

 

[ceduke]

Is your dog JRT/Dachshund? My BF's little dog is JRT/Doxie/Beagle and he would KILL a chicken, no question asked. I'm sure he could be trained be safe around chickens WITH the owner present... alone? No way, yikes!

Yes, he is JRT/Dachshund! He's a lil monster, but I adore him. We have a real issue with squirrel chasing which I've been working and working and working on, and progress has been minimal. He's improving dramatically in other areas though, so I know we're communicating OK, I just can't override the 'OMG CHASE!' instinct.

 

[Drizzt80]

Interesting info. What is your source?

peta.

D80