Is it mean for me to put a live mouse in the freezer to kill it? I can't grab it and kill it with my hands i am not capable of hurting an animal but I know feeding live has risks and they pet store was out of frozen. I am not able to wait for them to get more due to my leaving town in a few days and i want him to eat and me to be around to make sure there are no problems. Its my new ball python and this is his first feeding. Should i just feed him live? Its what he is used to anyway. It is a small adult mouse. Or does some one know how i can kill it with out using my hands?
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can't hurt a animal....help please
- Thread starter Dayoh
- Start date
Spirit
New member
I would suggest feeding live if that's how the snake was previous fed, but do NOT leave them unnatended. If the snake hasn't shown an interest in a few minutes (mabye 10?), remove the mouse.
As for killing the mouse, I'm with you on this one... I just don't have the heart to do it. I don't know about adults, but I've heard stories about putting live mice in the freezer, only to find them huddled in a corner (alive) a couple days later.
Sorry, but I don't have any other advice for you.
As for killing the mouse, I'm with you on this one... I just don't have the heart to do it. I don't know about adults, but I've heard stories about putting live mice in the freezer, only to find them huddled in a corner (alive) a couple days later.
Sorry, but I don't have any other advice for you.
If you place the mouse in a gladware container or a bag, you can "thump" the mouse without actually holding it...but obviously this requires you to do the thumping, still.
If you have access to dry ice, you can place the dry ice in a container with some holes in it and immerse the dry ice in warm water to get the CO2 flowing. It will come streaming out the holes. Place that container in another with the mouse and cover (loosely) or just put the dry ice container and mouse at the bottom of a tall container. CO2 is heavier than air and will settle to the bottom. Leave the mouse in there for a few minutes to ensure it has passed away. Since CO2 (carbon dioxide) is a normal by-product of metabolism, it is not toxic to the snake.
Freezing a mammal is not considered humane. The mouse will be conscious while its extremities are freezing. Ice crystals bursting cells hurts.
Small adult mice have very nice teeth, I wouldn't risk it, myself, feeding it live.
If you have access to dry ice, you can place the dry ice in a container with some holes in it and immerse the dry ice in warm water to get the CO2 flowing. It will come streaming out the holes. Place that container in another with the mouse and cover (loosely) or just put the dry ice container and mouse at the bottom of a tall container. CO2 is heavier than air and will settle to the bottom. Leave the mouse in there for a few minutes to ensure it has passed away. Since CO2 (carbon dioxide) is a normal by-product of metabolism, it is not toxic to the snake.
Freezing a mammal is not considered humane. The mouse will be conscious while its extremities are freezing. Ice crystals bursting cells hurts.
Small adult mice have very nice teeth, I wouldn't risk it, myself, feeding it live.
I would feel so bad if i put it in the freezer and it was still alive after an hour let alone a few days. That would make me cry i think. I am a softy some times. Yeah i think feeding live will be neat anyway. Although im sure i will feel bad even then because this mouse is awful cute, all white with his pink eyes. Im not sure, might have to have the boyfriend come over so that i don't back out. Can't let him see me as a weekling, lol........
Thanks spirit.
Thanks spirit.
TrpnBils
22 is not enough snakes
I would much rather die a quick, painless death than suffocate....whether it be in a bag or by constriction. I wouldn't want to freeze to death either. I think thumping it is about the most humane way to kill a mouse because if you do it right, it'll never know what happened. Why not just try F/T and see if he'll eat that?Dayoh said:
Taceas
USW = UB313
I'm not trying to be mean here, but why own a snake if you can't deal with what they eat? And "it eats f/t normally" really isn't a valid excuse, those mousecicles were once living creatures. Whether killing it yourself or buying the finished product, you're still advocating the death of mice.
People have gotten way too de-sensitized to human beings dying on television, yet we can't even manage to kill a mouse anymore. Go figure.
Having said that, freezing an adult mouse is a very cruel way to die. Its tail, ears, and feet would freeze before it eventually secumbed. And that could take hours or days. Pinks and fuzzies should be the only thing being froze, as it takes them a matter of minutes before hypothermia sets in and they're kaput.
Slow suffocation, that is, placing in a jar with a lid or in a plastic bag is still very traumatic for the mouse. It takes several minutes for the CO2 to build up to lethal levels, and the mouse would panic in the meantime. The CO2 chamber utilizing dry ice is a very quick and humane method, as it only takes a minute or so for the mouse to expire.
If you can flick a bug, you can flick a mouse. One thump to the head is a hell of a lot more humane than slowly freezing or suffocating to death. Simply hold it by the tail, and thump to the back of its head with your finger with a hard flick, or use a wooden spoon. Or you can be "detached" from the experience, as Hurley outlined, by placing it in a trashbag and smacking it against the counter top or other hard surface.
And if all else fails and you can't kill the mouse or find a f/t one, considering its a BP, and they can typically fast for whatever reason for a year or more, I don't think a few days of no food is going to kill it.
People have gotten way too de-sensitized to human beings dying on television, yet we can't even manage to kill a mouse anymore. Go figure.
Having said that, freezing an adult mouse is a very cruel way to die. Its tail, ears, and feet would freeze before it eventually secumbed. And that could take hours or days. Pinks and fuzzies should be the only thing being froze, as it takes them a matter of minutes before hypothermia sets in and they're kaput.
Slow suffocation, that is, placing in a jar with a lid or in a plastic bag is still very traumatic for the mouse. It takes several minutes for the CO2 to build up to lethal levels, and the mouse would panic in the meantime. The CO2 chamber utilizing dry ice is a very quick and humane method, as it only takes a minute or so for the mouse to expire.
If you can flick a bug, you can flick a mouse. One thump to the head is a hell of a lot more humane than slowly freezing or suffocating to death. Simply hold it by the tail, and thump to the back of its head with your finger with a hard flick, or use a wooden spoon. Or you can be "detached" from the experience, as Hurley outlined, by placing it in a trashbag and smacking it against the counter top or other hard surface.
And if all else fails and you can't kill the mouse or find a f/t one, considering its a BP, and they can typically fast for whatever reason for a year or more, I don't think a few days of no food is going to kill it.
http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17751&highlight=stun
http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17752&highlight=stun
i think stunning is the best way to ill them freezing takes too long and is painful, sufficating (agony), stunning quick and painless. i hope those links help u :cheers:
http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17752&highlight=stun
i think stunning is the best way to ill them freezing takes too long and is painful, sufficating (agony), stunning quick and painless. i hope those links help u :cheers:
I don't have a problem with his food by any means, i am just not the killing type i am sensitive, so be it. No i wouldn't want to make this mouse suffer by any means that is why i asked prior to doing these things. And suffucating him was meant more as a cruel joke..... yes i know, not funny. And as for the freezing i didn't realize that would take a long time. How do they kill the pinkies and mice at the pet store? Just wondering, do they use the dry ice method?
Thanks for telling me how to thump a mouse. I will either do this or feed live.
Thanks for telling me how to thump a mouse. I will either do this or feed live.
Spirit
New member
I'm with you, Dayoh. I couldn't do the kill myself, and furthermore I don't want to be "desensitized" to it. I've wanted a snake for as long as I can remember, and the ONE reason that stopped me from ever buying one, was that I was unaware of the fact that you could feed frozen thawed (I knew what they ate, so I never did the research... just assumed the mice were always live), so it wasn't until a few years ago when a breeder friend of mine told me otherwise, that I decided to start doing the research on how to keep snakes. I mean I have a hard enough time with frozen. Forget live. lol
I went through this when I bought my bp in January. I was SOOOO concerned about it "going off feed, what if it only wants live, etc". I had a hard time with mice, but it only took 2 weeks to make the switch to rats (F/T) and holy lord, that thing is INSANE with the rats. Practically jumps at them to tag 'em. Forget waiting. lol
Sorry. I've gone off topic (I'm bored at work right now lol). How old is the python? Just curious why not try a frozen rat instead of a live mouse... much healthier for you ball as well (imo), and cheaper in the long run.
I went through this when I bought my bp in January. I was SOOOO concerned about it "going off feed, what if it only wants live, etc". I had a hard time with mice, but it only took 2 weeks to make the switch to rats (F/T) and holy lord, that thing is INSANE with the rats. Practically jumps at them to tag 'em. Forget waiting. lol
Sorry. I've gone off topic (I'm bored at work right now lol). How old is the python? Just curious why not try a frozen rat instead of a live mouse... much healthier for you ball as well (imo), and cheaper in the long run.
Would you mind me emailing you a pic of him and you give me your opinion of food size?
The store only had frozen pinkie mice and rats (to small) and large mice (to big i think) But i will be sure to get a supply of whatever it is he is going to eat so i don't have this problem again.
The store only had frozen pinkie mice and rats (to small) and large mice (to big i think) But i will be sure to get a supply of whatever it is he is going to eat so i don't have this problem again.
Spirit
New member
Sure, if you like... Although I'm not too sure how much I can help you, but I'll try. I'll pm you my addy. I love pics anyway lol (and this IS a cornsnake forum... I'll link you to a good ball python one).
How big is the mouse you're feeding now? Hopper? Small adult? Balls don't show the bump the same way corns do... They sort of just get... "thick" in the belly... they don't "buldge" like corns do. I'm still figuring it out, myself. lol!
If it helps, mine is just shy of 3" around and on med sized rat pups (but I'm sure he can probably take larger - I'm just feeding up from the smallest size atm).
How big is the mouse you're feeding now? Hopper? Small adult? Balls don't show the bump the same way corns do... They sort of just get... "thick" in the belly... they don't "buldge" like corns do. I'm still figuring it out, myself. lol!
If it helps, mine is just shy of 3" around and on med sized rat pups (but I'm sure he can probably take larger - I'm just feeding up from the smallest size atm).
As to how to thump a mouse without having to hold the mouse or be too squeamish about it: I would put it in a solid plastic box/tupperware type container, tip the box so the mouse is furthest away from you, then swing the box as hard and fast as you can at a solid surface. This is NOT the time to be tentative, you will cause suffering to the mouse by being too tentative. If you make your mind up to do it, then do it and slam the box. If you use a box, you don't have to see the mouse, so it may be easier for you. (Note that as with any head injury where brain death occurs before spinal death/muscle death, some mice may have some muscle reactions in the form of kicking. If this would bother you, you may consider thumping and waiting for a minute before opening the box. They don't all do that, but some may.)
Andiheathcote
New member
I don't think I could thump a mouse. I accidentaly knelt on my sons hamster a few years ago and I almost needed therapy! Who knows though, I was dead against having any sort of snake in the house and I have ended up besotted with Homer and have more to do with him than any one else!
Good luck with whatever you decide to do.
Good luck with whatever you decide to do.
howiet4702
Wanted: Jasper Co Okeetee
OK, here is my 2 cents. Thank god we don't have rep points anymore as I might get another one of those red boxes.
I never wanted to "thump" a mouse either, but after what I seen it could do to a snake, I wouldn't think twice about it now. My friend had a bp and he left the mouse and bp in the cage together for about 15 seconds before the mouse took a chunk out of the python. We couldn't believe our eyes. After that incident, I started collecting snakes too and I wouldn't have it any other way. I feed all mine f/t but If I had to feed live, I would have no problem "thumping" the snake. Just a quick flick to the back of the head is all you need. Hurley also had a great idea with the tupperware container. I have used that method as well.
IF I HAD TO FEED LIVE.......I look at it this way. Would you want to risk the mouse bites to the snake or feel bad for a 1.49 mouse?
Maybe it's me, but my snakes are more important than a mouse.
*note to self* Hopefully, I won't get ripped too much
I never wanted to "thump" a mouse either, but after what I seen it could do to a snake, I wouldn't think twice about it now. My friend had a bp and he left the mouse and bp in the cage together for about 15 seconds before the mouse took a chunk out of the python. We couldn't believe our eyes. After that incident, I started collecting snakes too and I wouldn't have it any other way. I feed all mine f/t but If I had to feed live, I would have no problem "thumping" the snake. Just a quick flick to the back of the head is all you need. Hurley also had a great idea with the tupperware container. I have used that method as well.
IF I HAD TO FEED LIVE.......I look at it this way. Would you want to risk the mouse bites to the snake or feel bad for a 1.49 mouse?
Maybe it's me, but my snakes are more important than a mouse.
*note to self* Hopefully, I won't get ripped too much
JTGoff69
New member
howiet4702 said:OK, here is my 2 cents. Thank god we don't have rep points anymore as I might get another one of those red boxes.
I never wanted to "thump" a mouse either, but after what I seen it could do to a snake, I wouldn't think twice about it now. My friend had a bp and he left the mouse and bp in the cage together for about 15 seconds before the mouse took a chunk out of the python. We couldn't believe our eyes. After that incident, I started collecting snakes too and I wouldn't have it any other way. I feed all mine f/t but If I had to feed live, I would have no problem "thumping" the snake. Just a quick flick to the back of the head is all you need. Hurley also had a great idea with the tupperware container. I have used that method as well.
IF I HAD TO FEED LIVE.......I look at it this way. Would you want to risk the mouse bites to the snake or feel bad for a 1.49 mouse?
Maybe it's me, but my snakes are more important than a mouse.
*note to self* Hopefully, I won't get ripped too much
No ripping here Howie. I agree completely. I couldn't "thump" a mouse, but Hurley's description of a dry ice CO2 container sounds great. The new corn I got was eating live pinkies so I got 2 for her since she looked so underfed. It pained me to do it, especially after I had to hear one of the little buggers scream, but it had to be done. I am hoping to wean her to f/t soon, but am prepared to have to "freshly kill" some in the meantime. If you're going to have snakes, you've got to be prepared to do what you have to do to get them to eat. Thanks Hurley for the great idea, as dry ice has just become available at a few grocery stores here. If I have to continue with live or freshly killed, that's the way to go.
Spirit
New member
howiet4702 said:
RED DOT!!! :laugh: I'm kidding of course, but I wouldn't feed live at all. If I had to do it, you'd quickly see a thread titled "free to good home". It's just not in me. Maybe in time that will change... I really do envy those of you who have no probelms feeding live or fresh killed. It would be all about therapy for me. lol
gardenmum
Hopelessly Addicted
Hurley is right about the thumping. It is not as horrible as it seems once you do it. I never thought I'd kill a mouse by thumping it but had to do it a couple times with adult mice that had problems and needed to be fed out to the snakes. I won't take the chance of putting it alive in with the snake so I decided I had to "bite the bullet" and kill it first. So, I put it in one of the plastic shopping bags you get now from every store and swung the bag against the table. You don't even have to swing it hard at all, in fact, I would expect that if you swung it too hard you might do more than just kill the rodent.
It took me a few minutes to get up the nerve to do it but now I know how to do it without causing pain, I have no problem with it. The mouse died immediately which I think it 100 times better than letting the snake slowly squeeze the life out of it even if the mouse didn't bite the snake.
Good luck with whatever you decide to do......just don't feed it live and don't freeze it live.
It took me a few minutes to get up the nerve to do it but now I know how to do it without causing pain, I have no problem with it. The mouse died immediately which I think it 100 times better than letting the snake slowly squeeze the life out of it even if the mouse didn't bite the snake.
Good luck with whatever you decide to do......just don't feed it live and don't freeze it live.