co housing snakes

[MegF.]

It amazes me that most people list cannabilism as the chief reason to not co-habitate. I think that's the least of the problem. Cannabilism amongst corns is not rampant. There are cases, but not a large number in the scheme of things. I would worry more about disease, regurge problems, or early breeding etc. before I'd worry about that. I just can't see risking 3 or 4 snakes with illness by co-habitating. I don't have enough animals to experiment in that fashion so I'll leave it to the large breeders to do it. I will be interesting to see the outcome.

 

[bitsy]

I just can't see risking 3 or 4 snakes with illness by co-habitating

Disease risk can be mitigated by observing strict quarantine for any new snakes entering the house and preventing friends/neighbours from bringing in their own reptiles. I certainly wouldn't recommend putting Corns together unless they'd had a quarantine period and a clean bill of health.

Even with an established set of individually housed Corns, it's very unlikely that only one snake could become ill with a transmissable disease, without others in the same location having been exposed to the same source of infection.

Essentially, the risk is that the disease will be spread to all of the Corns from the original host, and not that the disease will spread from Corn to Corn.

Housing Corns individually will only prevent disease transmission if they're kept in separate rooms with dedicated equipment - effectively a lifetime quarantine.

The trick to preventing disease spread through a collection, is not to allow it in the house to start with. It lies in rigorous observation of quarantine protocols with any new reptiles entering the house and not allowing "visitors".

Personally, I don't see preventing the spread of disease, as an inherent virtue of housing Corns separately.

 

[SnowCorn87]

Disease risk can be mitigated by observing strict quarantine for any new snakes entering the house and preventing friends/neighbours from bringing in their own reptiles. I certainly wouldn't recommend putting Corns together unless they'd had a quarantine period and a clean bill of health.

Even with an established set of individually housed Corns, it's very unlikely that only one snake could become ill with a transmissable disease, without others in the same location having been exposed to the same source of infection.

Essentially, the risk is that the disease will be spread to all of the Corns from the original host, and not that the disease will spread from Corn to Corn.

Housing Corns individually will only prevent disease transmission if they're kept in separate rooms with dedicated equipment - effectively a lifetime quarantine.

The trick to preventing disease spread through a collection, is not to allow it in the house to start with. It lies in rigorous observation of quarantine protocols with any new reptiles entering the house and not allowing "visitors".

Personally, I don't see preventing the spread of disease, as an inherent virtue of housing Corns separately.

Very well said... Most people who have reps keep them in the same room. Just because they arent housed together doesnt mean thats gonna keep them disease free. It is a very weak argument to use when voting against not co-habbing. Mind you, I only have one snake, so co-habbing is not even an option I can sit and ponder over, lol.

 

[Okeetee_Corn_Snakes]

I hear too many horror stories about improperly sexed corns suddenly breeding and the underweight female passing away, of corns getting sick from stress and so on....So I house all of mine separately.

 

[tom e]

Nope. Once you start building vivs yourself, it's so much cheaper that there's just no reason at all for it. For me that week long setup before the new snake arrives is totally half the fun!

 

[Pasodama]

I voted "No".
None of mine (Corns & non Corns) are housed together ... nor will they be.
If I ever reach the point that each snake could not have its very own enclosure (by getting another snake)... I just wouldn't get another (at least not until such time that the new snake could have its own enclosure).

 

[Jimmy Johnson]

COHABITATION
MY OPINION

I feel it is best to keep snakes separate.
I know a lot of people can and do keep multiple snakes together without problems. I just feel the possible drawbacks need to be expressed.
When a person gets the experience and knowledge of each individual snake in his care, and wants to try co-habitation, it is up to them. They just need to be careful and observant enough to see and understand the subtle signs of stress in their snakes.
There can be definite drawbacks in co-habitation.
If one snake becomes sick there is a very good likelihood the other/others will get sick as well.
It may also take a while (usually too long) to determine which one is the sick one.
If one regurgitates its food you won't know which one unless you happen to get lucky and see it.
If one has a problem stool you won't know which one. Once again one may have a problem and by the time you figure out which one the other/others could end up with the same problem.
Although this is only a slight possibility, it is still a possibility and has been know to happen... one snake could eat the other. Cannibalism can and does occur with corn snakes. The smell of a prey item could trigger one snake to eat the other. Or simple hunger accompanied by a ready food source could do the same. Although uncommon, it has happened and is a possibility.
Another possibility is unwanted pregnancy. A female may become gravid and you may not have the knowledge, desire or ability to incubate the eggs, care for the hatchlings and find homes for them. With hatchlings comes added responsibility.
A lot of people rationalize by saying, "I will just put two males or two females together". That can work but mistakes can be made, especially with hatchlings. You could easily end up with a male and female.
There is also a chance of a female breeding too young or too small and becoming egg-bound. Although uncommon, it is a possibility and can happen.
With multiple snakes in the same enclosure you could easily loose them all if there happens to be an avenue of escape. Instead of losing one you could loose two or more depending on how many you decide to place together.
With multiple snakes in an enclosure, one or all of them could be stressed by the presence of the others. Stress can cause a drop in appetite and other health problems as well.
People will put multiple snakes in an enclosure and ask why one isn't eating.
When they are told it is probably due to stress caused by the other snake, the response is almost always the same "they like each other, they are always under the same hide together". Well this probably just means "that" hide or area of the tank has the optimum conditions they are looking for.
Snakes do not LIKE each other or ENJOY each other’s company.
There is no capacity for snakes to "like" or "enjoy".
I have kept multiple snakes together, without problems, but have made a choice to keep them separate. There are NO good arguments as to why you SHOULD keep them together but there ARE several good arguments as to why you SHOULD NOT.
So, in my opinion, although people do it successfully I just don't think it is worth the risk.
If you decide to keep multiple snakes together, watch closely for any signs of appetite loss, shedding problems, regurgitation or “personality” changes. These could all be signs of stress.
You would also want to feed them in separate containers and give them an hour or so before putting them back together.
My 2 cents

I just realized how old this post was.
Why do people keep reopening these OLD posts?

 

[bill38112]

Personally, I don't care if you're raising your corns for designer hat bands... WHICH you might as well do if you're cohabiting. If you're interested in the health of the snake, you won't cohabitate.

 

[kathylove]

Although what Bitsy said about disease transmission is true for a lot of virulent diseases, you have to also consider illness caused by the microbes that all animals routinely carry in their bodies in small numbers.

For example, Salmonella (among other possibly pathogenic organisms) is known to be present in small numbers in most herps, but usually doesn't cause a problem. But if an animal gets stressed for some reason, the numbers of normally innocuous microbes can multiply to huge numbers, leaving the herp unable to cope with them. Then you might get some kind of regurge syndrome going, and the cagemates will only add to the stress. In addition, the cagemates might come down with it too, simply because the microbe is now so prevalent that if conditions are less than ideal, the additional stress could put all at risk. And I believe all of this could happen without any new microbes being introduced to the mix from the outside, because all animals and humans have the makings within us, but in small numbers.

I am not a vet, so this is only my opinion. But it seems logical based on my experience.

Even so, I do see times when an EXPERIENCED keeper might want to experiment, knowing the risks it presents. I think when you proclaim a blanket statement of "don't ever do it", your credibility can be strained for those who do it successfully over a period of time.

I have a herper friend who is a teacher and keeps herps in the classroom. He keeps a lot of native herps in vivs together, much like a community fish tank. They are mostly insect eaters (including green snakes, but mostly lizards and amphibians). I feel there could be a lot to learn from the community tank idea, but it would probably not include corns. I have not yet attempted such a viv myself, but may do so in the future. I think a properly researched and set up community tank could provide stimulation to the animals within, and an enhanced interaction for the viewer. But it also presents new problems and risks, which can also provide new learning experiences for the advanced keeper.

Back when I bred milksnakes, I used to keep a male and 2 or 3 females together for a few months each spring. They ate live fuzzies, so I would feed them and watch them eat (they ate them too fast for one to easily grab another's food item), and keep an eye on them for an hour after eating. I never had a problem, although of course, there COULD have been a problem.

If we have to make blanket statements, I feel it should be:

Beginners: don't cohabitate - you have enough to learn, with enough possible complications, without adding another unnecessary potential problem.

Advanced keepers: Read Jimmy Johnson's post and proceed with extreme caution if you feel you really want to give it a try. Think it over and decide for yourself if you feel the benefits (perhaps a very large cage with a lot more surfaces, hiding areas, microhabitats, and other enhancements not available in a smaller, single occupant cage?) will outweigh the potential risks.

 

[mbdorfer]

Well, since this thread got dug up again I will come clean. I currently have 2 corns sharing a 55 gal tank. They are in the 250g range and yes they are male and female. I find it interesting with the variety of hides I have provided, that they both hide under the water bowl. This was not an experimental decision. These snakes were co-habing at their pervious home and I just didn't want to waste the 55. Bad decision? Time will tell. For the record, they are seperated for about an hour and a half at feeding time. My gut instinct tells me to seperate them, but for now they are living together.

 

[Jimmy Johnson]

communal tank

Back when I was growing up I tried a communal tank.
I had a twenty gallon long aquarium and decided to put a few local reptiles in it.
I had it set up with a mixture of soil and pete moss as a substrate and had a few small pots with live plants, rocks, branches, vines and a tupperware dish set up like a small pond. I went out in the surrounding area and caught a few herps for my tank. I caught a couple five lined skinks, three baby fence lizards not quite two inches long yet, a small toad about the diameter of a quarter and got lucky and found a small corn snake to complete my tank.
Things seemed to be going well and then one day I couldn't find one of the 3 little fence lizards. I thought the corn snake might have eaten it but wan't sure because it was eating pinkies.
Well over the next few days I noticed another one missing. Still not sure where they were going.
A couple of days later I had put a pinkie in the enclosure for the corn snake.
I would just put a live pinkie in front of the snake's hide and it wouldn't take long for it to come out and eat it.
While I was waiting for the corn to come out and eat it's prey the little toad hopped up and ate the pinkie. Now that was wild...lol
I got another pinkie for the snake but this got me thinking. Could the toad be the culprit? Well, that question was answered a couple of days later when I saw a fence lizard tail sticking out of the mouth of the toad.
This was the end of my communal tank.
I released the toad and the two skinks and kept the snake for a couple more weeks and released it before winter came.
Didn't know any better back then.
I do like the idea of communal tanks, I think they can really be a better insight into how herps might interact in the wild but you have to be very very careful.
I know that seems to be way off topic to snakes living together but maybe not really.
I didn't realize just how oportunistic toads could be or that they would eat anything they could get in their mouth. I learned this through experience. I saw it. This goes back to snakes. After years of corns being raised and bred in captivity experience has taught us there CAN be drawbacks in co-habbing corns and these drawbacks need to be taken into consideration.

 

[Kingetula]

I am answering the question IMO and only reading the question and not all the replies yet.

I don't do it. I have seen it done from pet shops to Zoo's and it seems the snakes are fine (I say seems, I am not there watching the snakes every day)

To avoid any problems I say do not do it. I remember a time long ago (15 years old) I sold some baby albino corns to a friend. I told him it was fine to keep them together and one corn ate another corn shortly after. He was sort of pissed if you know what I mean. On the other hand I have kept snakes together before with no problems.

I wouldn't put a KING in with a CORN and hope they work it out. ;-)

 

[antsterr]

Well, since this thread got dug up again I will come clean. I currently have 2 corns sharing a 55 gal tank. They are in the 250g range and yes they are male and female. I find it interesting with the variety of hides I have provided, that they both hide under the water bowl. This was not an experimental decision. These snakes were co-habing at their pervious home and I just didn't want to waste the 55. Bad decision? Time will tell. For the record, they are seperated for about an hour and a half at feeding time. My gut instinct tells me to seperate them, but for now they are living together.

Just keep in mind. You will find eggs in there some day. They are close to an okay size for breeding and if not this summer they will next spring. Heck, you might get eggs for Christmas, you never know.

 

[antsterr]

of course, with 30+ snakes I guess you already know this.

 

[bitsy]

My gut instinct tells me to seperate them, but for now they are living together.

In the past, I've run into trouble separating Corns that have co-habbed for any length of time. Some seem to cope badly with the change in their environment (i.e. other snake has gone) and go off their food and generally become withdrawn. It's not a matter of "missing" the other snake in the anthropomorphic sense, just an inability to cope with a change of environment.

So be prepared if you do try to separate them in the future - don't be too surprised if they go off their food & stay in their hides more. Be prepared to put them back together if it looks like becoming a long-term issue. No point protecting them against a future potential risk, if doing so causes actual harm in the meantime.

 

[titus]

I had to vote With proper monotoring with this poll. I'll start out by saying also that this sould not be done by the inexperinced keepers. In my years dealing herps and with corns. I have worked with area aproprate cohabition of a few spp. of dendrobates from Peru. Three spp. (both egg feeding and non eggfeeders). lived together in a 100g cage, produced offspring and thrived under idea conditions without any crossbreeding. I have and to this date keep a display with two properly sexed females. That are cohabed though the year up untill their mature. I have not found caniblisum to be a factor in keeping corns together. The main set back in my eyes would be tranmission of deasese (luckly I haven't had problems with this). Though my study of their behavior while cohabed I've only noticed that they do become slightly skiddish around another after feedings though this passes quickly. Though most of all of my corns are kept sepratly I do cohab my non brutmating spp. of snakes after they reach maturity, when they have a set breeding partner (ie. BP, CP, exe) I've found this produces much better breeding results than trying to hit the right ovulation time for the spp. I would not recemend what I am doing to the everyday snake keeper, but for the experinced keeper that has the time to study and document their findings.

 

[zeeboismysnake]

I guess I think of co-habbing like I think of the live vs. dead food thing. I mean, it works in some cases, but personally the risks are too high for me to ever want to do it.

 

[xStainD91]

I think it all depends on the reptiles you want to cohab. A friend of mine has had a 4' ball python and a 3' texas rat together since they were babies and has had no problems at all.

 

[hartsock]

well, someone brought up about ones that have been together for a long time...is there the possiblity of a bond developed where they feel connected. (please don't turn this into a "snakes dont' have emotions" thing, that isn't what I mean) Our local petstore has two that have been together for quite awhile. I finally held them today and while the one was not nippy or anything, it wanted back with the other snake. they are always laying together eventhough heat in the tank is appropiate and the size is adequate. Not saying they are in "love" but can they find security in the company (eventhough they are normally solo socially). And if they do, which is better, seperating them and dealing with off feed and nippyness or going the route of keeping them together? I personally have always been a no co hab person, but seeing the way these two snakes interact makes me wonder....

 

[HaisseM]

well, someone brought up about ones that have been together for a long time...is there the possiblity of a bond developed where they feel connected. (please don't turn this into a "snakes dont' have emotions" thing, that isn't what I mean) Our local petstore has two that have been together for quite awhile. I finally held them today and while the one was not nippy or anything, it wanted back with the other snake. they are always laying together eventhough heat in the tank is appropiate and the size is adequate. Not saying they are in "love" but can they find security in the company (eventhough they are normally solo socially). And if they do, which is better, seperating them and dealing with off feed and nippyness or going the route of keeping them together? I personally have always been a no co hab person, but seeing the way these two snakes interact makes me wonder....

I'm probably the wrong person to ask, but I would think after time the would become accustomed to each other.