Controversial Topic #2: Advice

[SnakeCreations]

Hi Dean,

Very interesting thread everyone!! I have to say that I agree with what has been said. While it is a wonderful place to obtain information, sometimes it's a dumping ground. When it "feels" like that I simply click off. I enjoy lurking and do read a lot here, but post rarely - typically when someone has asked a question with few responses. It's a great way to relax especially when I'm having trouble sleeping.

I don't agree that people here are vicious or mean to newbies. I have found that most are quite patient, even when it is clear a poster has repeatedly asked the same question in different threads. I remember one post where a member suggested the search function and a newbie replied that he (or she, can't remember) was too lazy to use it. The responder was kind, even then.

You know the thing about forums, is that perception is in the eye of the beholder. Intent is hard to read and many people will take something the wrong way, or feel defensive. And, there are those that just like to stir the pot - to those I simply say, click, click, click over to the photo thread... yeah - gotta love those photos..hehe

Have a great almost Friday everyone

-Tonya

 

[diamondlil]

:-offtopic oooooooooooh! love your stripey avatar Tonya, I thought I'd resist stripes, but you're making me think again........

 

[Roy Munson]

My 2 cents...
As all of you can see by my join date and title I am new to this forum and hobby. I'm extremely pleased that a forum like this exists and has a generally nice group of people active on it. My one complaint about this forum is related to this topic... I have seen experienced members post rude comments and replies to questions asked by new people. (X established member feels the need to flex and dominate Y new member with their astounding genius and knowledge. In most cases X is a adult and Y is a teenager BTW) Seeing this bothers me to no end. If you are impatient or annoyed with seemingly "stupid posts", don't answer them, or politely redirect the new member to the info he/she seeks. Knowledge of corn snakes does not make you a better human. New people are the future of this hobby, and everyone in here had a "first snake"

I'm sorry for the excessive rant. :sidestep:

Thanks for the reply, but it really isn't related to this topic. This topic is not about the tone of replies to question threads. It's about the dispensing of bad advice by inexperienced keepers. I don't really see the connection. But if you start a thread about your topic, I promise to participate. I have much to say about THAT topic.

 

[marty.warwick]

I promise to participate. I have much to say about THAT topic.

Ooh, sounds good. It could be something like, 'Controversial Topic #2.5' :grin01:

 

[Williv]

Sorry Roy,
As I was reading the new posts this morning I saw that it was out of place. It seemed very related late last night when I posted it.

 

[kimbyra]

I am biased though....as I will answer a nicely worded question with some background information way before I'll answer on of those: hlp plz! wut kind of snake is this cause i wuz thinkin it mite be a ultra corn since it got much red color and his name is spotty and then he likes his hide to go in and drink water
QUOTE]

:roflmao:
Oh man that is SO funny!!! Mostly because its true. I';ve seen so many of those.
Then you'll get the response from someone with one normal snake they've had for two months : "Looks like a miami to me, maybe a cadnycane. You should tap on the glass to wake him up if he's hiding so he'll get used to you..."

 

[mike17l]

you can see from my post count that i rarely post, the reason being that i agree completely with what dean has said, if you dont know what you are talking about then shut up and step away from the keyboard. seriously there is a post right now in the breeding section about somebody waking up and finding eggs (they thought the snakes were to young to breed, so it wouldnt be a problem houseing them together). well they asked what to do and the first response was from somebody in europe (not bashing europe, just saying where he/she is from) that owns, one maybe two snakes suggesting that the eggs should be placed in a vermiculite filled container on a heat mat. the first logical response came soon after suggesting they do not place on a heat pad and instead place high up on an appliance. i thought about suggesting tossing the eggs, but you can tell that some people can not and will not even consider this, so i refrained. in conclusion, dean great post, and if you dont know what you are talking about people, just use the mouse (no keyboard for you)

 

[Cycal]

I'm a newb and i post, but i try to only post ideas or suggestions that i have have some sort of experience it, commonly given advice that hasn't been posted yet, or odd tid bits of info that i have picked up that seem like sound advice.

I think the biggest issue comes down to people who either don't understand, or care about forum edict.

When you get involved in a discussion forum, its almost the same as having a long running conversation with a large group of people in real life. Take a moment to see what the general concensus is, and keep it in mind when you post.

If you were to get involved in a conversation with say, a group foot doctors, would you attempt to educate them on feet? Although you may have two feet, have had them quite awhile, and have managed to keep them your entire life, its doubtfull that you have much info that will seem like breaking news.
Now if these doctors perscibed to a certain school of thought, something that you had little knowledge on. Would you feel the need to argue with them? And if so, do you think your knowledge of feet would stand up against theirs? If you thought doctors were wrong, would you tell them so, and move on? Would you stay in the conversation and shout over the top of them evertime somebody else involved in the conversation asked a question?

Anyways... sorry if this post rambles. I love this site. I been comming here since i first got interested in corns, and will keep comming here for info as long as i keep them. However, this topic is one that is near and dear to me as I have worked with all types of animals for most of my life and nothing, and i mean nothing, get my undies in knot more then bad pet owner advice that can only be backed up with "Well I've had "xxx" for "xxx" amount of time and so far, nothing bad has happened." or "my uncle's best friend's next door neighbor's barber's proctologist has a "xxx" and he says..."

 

[kimbyra]

Okay, here is a good example of this threads topic.
http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35328
Comments?

 

[desertanimal]

If you were to get involved in a conversation with say, a group foot doctors, would you attempt to educate them on feet? Although you may have two feet, have had them quite awhile, and have managed to keep them your entire life, its doubtfull that you have much info that will seem like breaking news.
Now if these doctors perscibed to a certain school of thought, something that you had little knowledge on. Would you feel the need to argue with them? And if so, do you think your knowledge of feet would stand up against theirs? If you thought doctors were wrong, would you tell them so, and move on? Would you stay in the conversation and shout over the top of them evertime somebody else involved in the conversation asked a question?

Hilarious! I believe this is the first podiatry metaphor I have ever encountered. It's perfect!

 

[Roy Munson]

Okay, here is a good example of this threads topic.
http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35328
Comments?

I dunno, Kimberly. I've seen much worse. And since Chuck (Serpwidgets) participated, the thread was elevated anyway in terms of value (imho).

 

[kimbyra]

I posted the link before there were better replys, but it is true that that thread is only a very tame example.

 

[Joker]

Sorry Dean. I too must spread the rep around a bit. But there are points to this that I do not agree with. I do not post about cornsnake husbandry other than the basics as most of my experience is with boas. Which I lurk in the General Chit Chat forum for. But newbies are going to ask questions, the part I dont like is when the make excuses for not taking the advice given. I too put A TON of weight on the comments Serp, Hurley, CornCrazy, and some others make. And some others, carry less weight. BUt I dont think that the Lurk Time will have a good effect on the traffic of this board. If I had not gotten the advice, friendship, and general knowledge that I got starting to participate in chat I would not be where I am today with our collection. Taking people under your wing that are willing to listen, learn and answering there NEWBIE questions is a positive that I have found here that I have not found in other species specific communities. I may only have a few corns but Ive gained more internet friends, some of whome I have become closer with here, than I have ANYWHERE else. So to tolerate some of the newbie questions in my opinion is a plus that happens here more than anywhere else.

Josh

 

[Roy Munson]

Sorry Dean. I too must spread the rep around a bit. But there are points to this that I do not agree with. I do not post about cornsnake husbandry other than the basics as most of my experience is with boas. Which I lurk in the General Chit Chat forum for. But newbies are going to ask questions, the part I dont like is when the make excuses for not taking the advice given. I too put A TON of weight on the comments Serp, Hurley, CornCrazy, and some others make. And some others, carry less weight. BUt I dont think that the Lurk Time will have a good effect on the traffic of this board. If I had not gotten the advice, friendship, and general knowledge that I got starting to participate in chat I would not be where I am today with our collection. Taking people under your wing that are willing to listen, learn and answering there NEWBIE questions is a positive that I have found here that I have not found in other species specific communities. I may only have a few corns but Ive gained more internet friends, some of whome I have become closer with, than I have ANYWHERE else. So to tolerate some of the newbie questions in my opinion is a plus that happens here more than anywhere else.

Josh

Thanks for the reply, Josh. I'll save most of what I have to say for another discussion about newb questions and the replies to them. But I will say that it doesn't take much lurking to figure out how best to participate on this board-- at least if you want to be taken seriously. Since this has come up a few times in this thread, maybe it's time for a new topic.

 

[Joker]

Not trying to be argumenative at all Dean. I just remember the days of Serp, Hurley and Corn Crazy tutoring me with more knowledge than I could digest at the time. Thats my only point I guess. Props for the thread though it is a good point.

And as a note No I havent gotten props for posting my baby picture as an avatar before. TY

Josh

 

[Roy Munson]

Not trying to be argumenative at all Dean. I just remember the days of Serp, Hurley and Corn Crazy tutoring me with more knowledge than I could digest at the time.

Looks like we're on the same page (to use a filthy, corporate term).

Thats my only point I guess. Props for the thread though it is a good point.

Thanks, and good point. I've already posted topic #3.

And as a note No I havent gotten props for posting my baby picture as an avatar before. TY

You obviously haven't looked at your rep yet, although I didn't give you props. I can appreciate Chucky, but that nasty thing is too much. :grin01:

 

[Joker]

I saw that Dean and thanks again.

Josh

 

[Cflaguy]

Most of my advice

appears to be outdated. And I usually hear about it. I took about a six year break from snakes and when I returned the business had boomed and many more products and morphs are available. Or more readily available. I won't say my advice is wrong because whatever it may be, I've used it or done it. For instance, I really heard it about my incubation practices. But you'll see the results on the breeding thread.
But I've learned many things here myself and I would advocate using the more modern methods, I just offer opinions now and folks can take them or leave them.

 

[jenkva]

I am also a noob and agree with most of the things said here.<o></o>

Personally, there are some subjects where I feel more comfortable than others to answer. If I am merely suggesting, I usually invite more senior members to “rectify” what I have said/suggested. It is a learning process for everybody and we all make mistakes but before someone give advice, they should have read/learned/applied what was said by more experienced herps. I, by no mean, think that I have nothing left to learn; gosh; far from that. But should I say something in good faith, I would appreciate and take into consideration what was said to me. I will ask questions as to why to be able to understand it better, therefore being a better herp.<o></o>

I know I joke/clown around sometimes but it doesn’t mean that I am not taking my snakes’ health/wellbeing seriously AND before anyone says anything, I am not saying anyone did <o></o>

I do sometimes see answers from other noob which makes me cringe as they are so sure and nonchalant about what they are suggesting and it is really wrong advice and should they have taken the time to read on the subject and not just take the first answer they see as being the correct one, they would know that what they are saying is not an answer which is suitable for the situation, or not suitable full stop.<o></o>

I am pretending to know what is right or wrong but there are some things that I know and can recognise when they are wrong.

Also, when I do give advice to the ones that are newer than me, I usually suggest for them to read the links that were given to me when I joined as well as suggesting first to do a search, after that, it is up to the ones reading it to do something with it.

Anyway, I just want to thank you all to have made me feel so welcome when I first joined and to have answered all my silly/less silly questions with patience

 

[SnakeAround]

I am a newbie, but I will occasionally give advice with a disclaimer stating that I am new, or that I'm not an expert, or some such thing.

I usually do this when it's something completely straightforward and I've read so many people say it that I can safely parrot it, like, "Most people would suggest you separate your snakes."

I also usually only do it in circumstances where I'm guessing the people who know everything about everything are tired of writing the same old thing over and over again and probably, therefore, won't address it. Sometimes I feel like being friendly to people who should just be doing searches and so I'll write a reply instead of telling them to do a search.

Then somtimes, I post advice when it's something I've dealt with but maybe others haven't, like what to do about living in a place that's hotter than you know what.

I know this probably isn't what you're getting at, but I do always feel a little nervous about posting such advice because I don't want people thinking, "Sheesh. Darn newbie. What does SHE know . . ."

(of course, I guess that's better than if they think, "Sheesh. Darn newbie. What does HE know . . ." LOL!)

That is how I think about it! I'm sure I've read that (at least some) seniors are ok with less new newbies advicing really new newbies so they don't have to write down the obvious so often.... Stating that you're only talking theory when you have no experience with a situation, is a good way to do this.