• Hello!

    Either you have not registered on this site yet, or you are registered but have not logged in. In either case, you will not be able to use the full functionality of this site until you have registered, and then logged in after your registration has been approved.

    Registration is FREE, so please register so you can participate instead of remaining a lurker....

    Please be certain that the location field is correctly filled out when you register. All registrations that appear to be bogus will be rejected. Which means that if your location field does NOT match the actual location of your registration IP address, then your registration will be rejected.

    Sorry about the strictness of this requirement, but it is necessary to block spammers and scammers at the door as much as possible.

Crypto...

Floof

New member
We took two of our newest snakes, Srisgrisard (Charcoal corn snake) and Jack (Dumeril's Boa), to the vet yesterday. Srisgrisard was presenting with terrible, smelly diarrhea, an inability to properly digest his food, and poor body condition (that I hadn't noticed when we initially purchased him back in August). Jack was showing neurological problems (rolling on his back and not being able to get up, crawling "weirdly"). When we got to the vet, they both had slightly swollen GI tracts. So, we got bloodwork on Jack and fecals on both of them.

When the vet returned with the results, he was 100% sure Sris has a HEAVY load of Cryptosporidium (concluded through an "acid fast" Cytology). Jack has a gastrointestinal infection and a secondary infection in his liver (the cause of his neurological problems). Jack also tested positive on the Acid Fast for Crypto, but the vet is still sending out a sample to have a PCR done to be 100% sure. If Jack does have crypto, there is some chance it caused the gastrointestinal problems, but I doubt it since Jack started presenting soon (a week) after we got him. Now, Sris and Jack are on a medication for Crypto and Jack is on three others for the gastrointestinal and liver problems. Fuuun! The vet also gave me a (something something) Ammonium compound cleaner to scrub enclosures with (since, apparently, alcohol and bleach don't kill crypto) and some slides to send in fecal samples for any other snakes of concern. We also picked up some hand sanitizer while at the vet that has the proper "ingredients" to kill crypto, and got long, detailed instructions on how to keep this under control.

In other words, I'm not having a good week. Luckily, though, we've caught it early enough to get it under control and the only other snakes showing worrisome symptoms are Jello and Jill, the hatchling corn snake and the female Dumeril's we got at the same expo.

Now, the scary part, is I was only taking Sris in because I was worried about him getting dehydrated and emaciated. I didn't expect anything bad to come out of him, except maybe some super-basic parasite. I almost didn't take him in when the diarrhea stopped for a week... And this is obviously a pre-existing condition, which tells me his former owner knew something was wrong! To some extent, I blame myself.. After all, I was naive enough not to stop and realize that a $50 proven adult male Charcoal het Amel, Anery, Hypo was too good to be true. The breeder will certainly be getting an ear full over this, but I have serious doubts that she'll do anything about it, let alone accept blame... I hate people like that. I hate knowing I've MET people like that. It's disgusting. And a very bad reminder that human beings in general are (mostly) conniving, evil creatures who could care less about what happens to someone else and their animals. It's even worse that this breeder apparently doesn't realize (or care about) the repercussions of her actions. So far, this breeder has cost us at least $200 in vet bills alone... Plus the mental distress and heartache caused to my mother and I, having crypto in the collection, and the physical distress for the snakes and myself while I get to scrub clean 30 enclosures, take fecals from a dozen or so snakes, and wrestle and medicate two unhappy snakes on a daily basis for the next 45 days minimum... Plus medicating any other snakes that get sick. Fuuuuuun! =(

If you haven't figured it out already, I'm quite upset. Not as panicked as I expected to be, but still very upset. You could call it fitting... A terrible end to an already sucky week. Even better, I won't be able to clear out my hatchling rack and sell Lucy until this is under control. While that's something I can deal with, my grandma (who's been pushing me to sell Luc) and my dad (who's been waiting for me to hurry up and sell the hatchlings) won't be the happiest people in the world when they find out.

I hope you all don't mind my rant... I couldn't not share this harrowing experience with my buddies from CS.com! =)

Has anyone else here dealt with crypto?
 
That's awful. As for selling any of your snakes, with crypto confirmed in your snakes that's going to be difficult. The burden of proof will be for you to show any you sell are clear.
 
Never dealt with Crypto... hoping to NEVER deal with Crypto...

Sorry that you are and that you'll be able to get this CRAP behind you soon.

Hoping for the best...
 
Ugh, no crypto experience here, but I'm very sorry to here this. You and snakes will be in my thoughts.
 
From what I have heard crypto can't be cured right? I know there are meds to slow the progression and help reduce the occurance of infection in the rest of your brood, but I'm not sure you can clear it totally. I believe they always remain carriers and can infect other animals through contact with their feces even reinfecting themselves this way. I would have fecals done on everyone and think about putting down the infected ones to avoid further spread. I know that sounds like terrible advice, but you would have to medicate for months to attempt to get it under control and thats if the meds work. Thats an expensive process and in the meantime your risk of infecting healthy snakes is high. I wish you all the best and am sorry this is happening:(
 
J9 is right, you cannot sell any snakes from a confirmed contamination.....
This is why QT is so important within a collection.....
I hope you get on top of this, quickly, and everything turns out ok for you.....
 
Thanks for the replies/advice, everyone.

I'll talk to the vet about the "curable/uncurable" situation, Danielle, and about getting the infected ones put down. I'm certainly hoping you heard wrong, though, because that's definitely not something I want to have to do... :eek:
I would hope, anyway, that if it was uncurable that the vet would have said so in the first place. We'll find out, I guess. =P

Mike, I DID pull my head out of my bum about QT before now--back when we rescued the Beardie in January. My QT hasn't been super-great, though, (the living room/"QT room" used to be my favorite place to handle snakes) which is why I'm still sending fecals in for the established collection.

Ugh! I just got done medicating Sris and Jack. They both threw fits (I think this is going to have to be a two-person thing), but we got through it. You wouldn't believe how much hand sanitizer I've used today, and the only established herps I've so much as touched since we got home yesterday (and even then after taking a full shower and hand-sanitizing) are two hatchlings, Osiris the Boa, and Man Ray. I'm waiting, right now, for the dishwasher to be done so I can transfer the quarantined snakes to some fresh, never-been-used sterilites, and get to scrubbing everyone's enclosures.
 
http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54429&page=4
http://jvdi.org/cgi/reprint/8/3/398.pdf

Like I said your vet may not have been straight with you- crypto is a slowly progressing incureable parasite that will eventually continue to spread throughout your collection:( Medication can lessen the parasitic load but it never goes away. You can't breed these snakes or sell their offspring at this point and should some of your collection not have it you should ensure they can't get it by putting the known carriers down and having everyone tested multiple times before assuming their fine. Negative tests are actually normal because they don't pick it up until the numbers of parasites are high which takes awhile. Read these excerps and talk to your vet, but it seems thats something they should have discussed with you right away:)
 
I know there was someone on here a few years ago who chose to put down their entire collection because of Crypto. It is devastating. I wish I could be more optimistic, but it's bad.
 
I'm not expecting this to turn out well, TBH... I'm going to do fecals on the established snakes and beardie before I start euthanizing any of them, but I'll probably have at least 5 of the 6 snakes I got at the expo (Sris, Jack, Jill, Jello, and Hector) euthanized. I'm about 99% sure at this point that at least the corns and dums have crypto, and the outlook is not good for Hector, whose tank was directly beneath Jello's tub. I'm extremely close to pulling Demeter from brumation, warming her up, and giving her a meal so I can get a fecal from her, too... Which I may just go ahead and do over this coming week, once I've gotten the living room cleaned up and disinfected.

I don't think I've ever felt so rushed in my life. Going to school tomorrow is going to be hard, knowing I have so much stuff to get done still. Just pushing myself to go to bed is hard.. Heh. =/ Thanks, everyone, for your responses. =)
 
Crypto.. well. Its nothing but bad news.. I wish I could sound positive, and I do feel for you..

Regards.. Tim of T and J
 
I hope its just those infected and stays that way for you:) Its a cruddy lesson to learn and the truth is an animal with crypto usually doesn't present noticable signs until long after a traditional quarantine period anyway. At first sign pulling them back out is also fine and dandy, but even then crypto spreads all too easily. Don't beat yourself up too much- hope all gets better sooner than later.
 
From what I have heard crypto can't be cured right? I know there are meds to slow the progression and help reduce the occurance of infection in the rest of your brood, but I'm not sure you can clear it totally. I believe they always remain carriers and can infect other animals through contact with their feces even reinfecting themselves this way. I would have fecals done on everyone and think about putting down the infected ones to avoid further spread. I know that sounds like terrible advice, but you would have to medicate for months to attempt to get it under control and thats if the meds work. Thats an expensive process and in the meantime your risk of infecting healthy snakes is high. I wish you all the best and am sorry this is happening:(

This is what I have heard as well. When my first baby corn had crypto I ended up throwing out her entire set up... I would not trust ANY type of cleaner....
 
Hah. Today was fun. I just spent the last few hours running around the house dusting furniture, door handles, and lamps with ammonia cleaner. Tomorrow, I'll move on to the downstairs.

Also tomorrow, I'm going to start moving the established snakes into tubs, so I can remove their tanks completely from the situation and start cleaning them while we start getting some fecals done... So not looking forward to that mess. My grandma, though, is absolutely amazing. She's not a big fan of snakes, but she told me today that any tested and healthy snakes are welcome at her house while we get this mess sorted out. (Then I cried. I love my grandma!)

This is what I have heard as well. When my first baby corn had crypto I ended up throwing out her entire set up... I would not trust ANY type of cleaner....

Yeah. After talking some, we decided to do just this... I've thrown out all the decor and tubs I used with the quarantined snakes (other than those in use), and I have the 10 gal aquariums I used for a few of them soaking in ammonia cleaner in preparation to be taken to the dump and (on my grandmother's somewhat extreme but sensible recommendation) destroyed... So no one else could possibly use them.
 
Update!

My mom and I went to the Puyallup expo this weekend for feeders and ran into the vet while we were there. We asked about euthanasia and all that good stuff, and he explained that the reason he put them on medication instead of jumping to euthanasia is he's apparently had luck "curing" Crypto with the meds he put Sris and Jack on ("Ponazuril"). Apparently, a patient of his a year ago tested positive for Crypto. He gave the owner two options: euthanasia, or try treating it with this new Ponazuril med. The owner chose the meds. They're coming up on a year since treatment without Crypto reappearing once in the animal's fecal exams. I'm still highly skeptical, but I already have the meds so I figure it's worth giving it a shot. So far, it seems to be doing pretty good. Sris has defecated since we started medication, and it was actually formed! As well, Jack has been getting a lot more fiesty (aka more energy), but I'm not sure if that's more the Ponazuril or the three meds he's on for his GI and liver infections. =)

In other news, Demeter and Mallie defecated on Monday. We live 4 hours from the vet, so, on his recommendation, we literally mailed them in. They arrived yesterday, and we got the results today.. They both tested negative!!! Mallie will now be moving in to a tub at my Gram's house, and, once she's gotten a couple more fecals under her belt, so will Demeter. Now, then, if everyone else would poo for me next Monday, we'd be set...

I was especially worried for Demeter, who we purchased at the same Expo. I'm thinking this is a really good sign for her, since she was down for brumation (stressful in and of itself, I'm sure) for two weeks before I brought her back up to get a fecal (and stress is what really aggravated Sris's infection). She'll be getting several more fecals over the next several months... If she and Xente "pass" their next fecals, I think I'm going to make an attempt to salvage this season and pair them up on the off-chance that two weeks was enough to cycle them. =)

We've been in contact with the breeder. She seems like a better person than I thought when I first posted this topic ("seems" being the operative word, as I'm quickly learning that not everyone is as nice/rude/what-have-you as they may "seem"). She refunded Sris's purchase price, and promised to help out with the vet bills--and here's the catch--if tests can prove that it did, indeed, come from her collection. In other words, if any of her other snakes have it. So far, Sris's former mate has tested negative once.
 
I'd be more than skeptical about a crypto "cure". If there were one you would think this would be all over the reptile world, but its not. I still wouldn't breed right now many fecals can be negative with crypto still being present lying dormant for a year or more in rare cases. Breeding offspring means the chance of infecting them and selling them into someones healthy collection which is not going to go over well with most people. If your serious about breeding your reputation is important, you'll have to disclose this info, and waiting will be better for you and your snakes in the long run to make sure you re selling disease free animals:)
 
he's apparently had luck "curing" Crypto with the meds he put Sris and Jack on ("Ponazuril"). Apparently, a patient of his a year ago tested positive for Crypto. He gave the owner two options: euthanasia, or try treating it with this new Ponazuril med. The owner chose the meds. They're coming up on a year since treatment without Crypto reappearing once in the animal's fecal exams. I'm still highly skeptical, but I already have the meds so I figure it's worth giving it a shot. So far, it seems to be doing pretty good. Sris has defecated since we started medication, and it was actually formed! As well, Jack has been getting a lot more fiesty (aka more energy), but I'm not sure if that's more the Ponazuril or the three meds he's on for his GI and liver infections. =)
.

So sorry to hear this!!! I heard of members here losing the collection because of it.

But I hope you update up on the condition of your snake getting the new treatment.
 
Back
Top