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[willderphil]

Equality and fairness is whoever gets to the seats first, get to sit there. To do it in any other fashion is discriminatory and a blatant example of segregation.

Well if the american people were fair then there would be enough senators/representatives to accurately portray the black population. So say there is probably about 10% of the population that is black, if everyone voted without regards to race then about 10% of the representatives should be black. The fact is people dont. whether because a lack of good candidates because blacks are still overcoming the effects of descrimination (takes money to make money) or because whites are still actively being racist, it still isn't to that point.

 

[Rich Z]

Well if the american people were fair then there would be enough senators/representatives to accurately portray the black population. So say there is probably about 10% of the population that is black, if everyone voted without regards to race then about 10% of the representatives should be black. The fact is people dont. whether because a lack of good candidates because blacks are still overcoming the effects of descrimination (takes money to make money) or because whites are still actively being racist, it still isn't to that point.

Really? Well, let's think about this.

If representatives are voted into office via a popular vote, meaning a MAJORITY vote, how would you propose getting around that in a fashion that would be more fair?

Secondly, if a representative for any given area is voting on issues relevant to that given area, why would the needs of black Americans be any different from those of non black Americans? What is it about then that would seemingly be unique? Are the bills being proposed and voted on by all representatives irrespective of THEIR race inherently racist and biased against black Americans? Or is it that it is HOPED that by having more black representation in Congress that proposed bills would be more in favor of black Americans to the detriment of other groups? Again, if black Americans want to be just AMERICANS, then perhaps they need to stop trying to force segregating factors into every equation. Seriously what did blacks hope to have happen when a black president was elected into office? What exactly was the CHANGE that they wanted? And did they get whatever it is they expected?

And honestly if discrimination is such a deciding factor in elections, just how is it that we have a black president of the USA right now? Even if every black American in the country voted for Obama, that alone would not have been enough to win the election for him. OMG! Could it possibly be that not as many voters discriminated against Obama because of his color as some people think?

Below is from the 2010 census info:

 

[tsst]

I think the Republicans are crazy....crazy like a fox.....
Perhaps they know (like I know for sure) that no matter what happens, this country is pretty much doomed. As a nation we are hurtling towards third worldism at the speed of light, and the train wreck about to happen can't be stopped.
So, instead of putting some REAL contenders against Obama, they put up these guys, knowing that Obama will easily win.....

And when the world does fall apart, who gets the blame????

edited to add, I have been a republican most of my adult life, before becoming a libertarian, and this makes perfect sense to me. Even back when I was at the height of my republicanness, I did not like these guys, or guys like them. I have been asking myself for months, are these guys all they could come up with? Are these the best and the brightest??? Now it is starting to make sense.....

That might make sense. Sure would explain why pretty much ALL governments are spending money like there is no tomorrow. Maybe they know something that we don't........

Thanks, now I feel compelled to buy another 1000 rounds.

.... Prison systems are modern day plantations, and if you had done your proper research, you could clearly see the transition from plantations to prison systems (some of which literally transitioned into another).

It's just the 'American' way... preferring big business made mostly at the expense of non-white people and people and the poor, in order to create wealth by those who head it. I won't expect any insight that will jeopardize the truth of this, ...

I disagree. IMO the modern day plantation is the socialist/welfare state.

The more people the gov can get hooked on entitlements the more they control them. The impoverished on gov assistance are the modern day plantation workers and big gov politicians are the modern day plantation owners. Less fortunate are entrapped into believing that only the big gov plantation owner can help them survive. All the while they are simply becoming slaves to entitlements beholding to vote for the promise of more handouts. Instead of picking cotton to get food and shelter they are brainwashed into voting for bigger gov handout politicians to get food stamps and public housing.

It's time to shrink the plantation and allow freedom to prosper as it did 1 January 1863.

 

[Michael823]

Thanks, now I feel compelled to buy another 1000 rounds.

I disagree. IMO the modern day plantation is the socialist/welfare state.

The more people the gov can get hooked on entitlements the more they control them. The impoverished on gov assistance are the modern day plantation workers and big gov politicians are the modern day plantation owners. Less fortunate are entrapped into believing that only the big gov plantation owner can help them survive. All the while they are simply becoming slaves to entitlements beholding to vote for the promise of more handouts. Instead of picking cotton to get food and shelter they are brainwashed into voting for bigger gov handout politicians to get food stamps and public housing.

I appreciate you respectfully posing an alternative idea/observation...

And I can definitely agree that the systems that are designed to "give" are also sometimes the systems designed to really "take". Which is why I don't like the whole giver/taker discussion. At the end of the day, nobody is happy with what environment they feel stuck with, so really both have been robbed. And by what you wrote here, I also agree with you that there is a manipulation of the poor (and often minority) members of society by the Govt, which is reflected also in society, in order to further their own agendas (and financial gain). The prison systems (courts/laws/etc..) are just another form of 'big business' designed to keep a certain control on a certain group of people, but there are many others, like you mentioned, and I don't think that believing both are true is any form of contradiction.

And this is exactly what people should be talking about... both sides, all from the side of trying to understand, listen and come up with positive ideas to help the people who we disagree with. If the problem with welfare/assistance comes from understanding their point of view, and having compassion for the people that feel they need it, than we would have a lot less assuming and anger towards one-another. My whole problem with the political process is that groups of people are herded like sheep into one box, and then rewarded with their president by thinking that the victory comes by attacking another group of people.

Which is why I question the videos posted. The recurrence of the message and images (on the whole) seem disproportionate and misleading, in comparison who what accurate reflections would depict. And more like propaganda or 'political ad' material than an educational tool. Regardless, I'm not hung up in that. I'm not so stubborn to say that it's possible I was just seeing common themes that weren't intended, and that it happened to be a coincidence that there were similarities, but I still don't think that those messages are a fair example of what the problem is... either way, maybe the discussion can continue to focus more on the progressive side of criticism.

 

[Michael823]

And honestly if discrimination is such a deciding factor in elections, just how is it that we have a black president of the USA right now? Even if every black American in the country voted for Obama, that alone would not have been enough to win the election for him. OMG! Could it possibly be that not as many voters discriminated against Obama because of his color as some people think?

Contradictions typically explain themselves...

You post in response to a vague and nameless observation on my behalf, that was simply posing an idea that the videos in question had a quite common theme. Your quoted response was in defense of your view on "uneducated voters", in which you were the first to have named race as the common theme in the videos (just by bringing it up). Ironically, I asked if anyone could notice the relating themes in the videos posted (the initial spur of this threads boost), and you quickly responded by (seemingly) attempting to justify not voting for Obama based on the color of his skin (as would define a form of racism), simply because of the reflection of the voters in the videos (who happened to be black) possibly electing a president based on the color of his skin...

But like you said... "Even if every black American in the country voted for Obama, that alone would not have been enough to win the election for him."
Which indicates a contradiction of your own attack against the videos in the first place.

 

[tsst]

... The prison systems (courts/laws/etc..) are just another form of 'big business' designed to keep a certain control on a certain group of people, but there are many others, like you mentioned, and I don't think that believing both are true is any form of contradiction.

I disagree that the prison system(courts, laws, jails, etc) is 'big business' but rather 'big gov'. Prisons are federal, state, county or city run. LEOs, FBI, ATF, guards, etc are gov employees in most cases.
If you are trying to imply that a corporation would somehow care whether it was Tyrell from intercity Chicago that received a longer sentence rather than Bubba from rural Georgia for robbing a convenience store. And then make an effort to manipulate the sentence of a convenience store robber. I am not sure I buy that as a prevalent big business strategy nor a gainful one. I do however find it much more plausible that the gov would use the system for gain. Say fast and furious for example.

And this is exactly what people should be talking about... both sides, all from the side of trying to understand, listen and come up with positive ideas to help the people who we disagree with. If the problem with welfare/assistance comes from understanding their point of view, and having compassion for the people that feel they need it, than we would have a lot less assuming and anger towards one-another. My whole problem with the political process is that groups of people are herded like sheep into one box, and then rewarded with their president by thinking that the victory comes by attacking another group of people.

Which is why I question the videos posted. The recurrence of the message and images (on the whole) seem disproportionate and misleading, in comparison who what accurate reflections would depict. And more like propaganda or 'political ad' material than an educational tool. Regardless, I'm not hung up in that. I'm not so stubborn to say that it's possible I was just seeing common themes that weren't intended, and that it happened to be a coincidence that there were similarities, but I still don't think that those messages are a fair example of what the problem is... either way, maybe the discussion can continue to focus more on the progressive side of criticism.

First which vids are you referring to? Those posted showing dem involvement in housing colapse? or those showing uneducated voters?

 

[Rich Z]

Contradictions typically explain themselves...

You post in response to a vague and nameless observation on my behalf, that was simply posing an idea that the videos in question had a quite common theme. Your quoted response was in defense of your view on "uneducated voters", in which you were the first to have named race as the common theme in the videos (just by bringing it up). Ironically, I asked if anyone could notice the relating themes in the videos posted (the initial spur of this threads boost), and you quickly responded by (seemingly) attempting to justify not voting for Obama based on the color of his skin (as would define a form of racism), simply because of the reflection of the voters in the videos (who happened to be black) possibly electing a president based on the color of his skin...

But like you said... "Even if every black American in the country voted for Obama, that alone would not have been enough to win the election for him."
Which indicates a contradiction of your own attack against the videos in the first place.

Warning! Trying to read far too much between the lines when there is nothing really there can cause uncontrollable squintiness.......

Where did you see an "attack against the videos"? And where is this contradiction you speak of? I believe my question was related to racism taking place in that voting process, and the questions still stands. I won't bother to repeat it here, as I think you know what it is by now.

 

[Rich Z]