• Hello!

    Either you have not registered on this site yet, or you are registered but have not logged in. In either case, you will not be able to use the full functionality of this site until you have registered, and then logged in after your registration has been approved.

    Registration is FREE, so please register so you can participate instead of remaining a lurker....

    Please be certain that the location field is correctly filled out when you register. All registrations that appear to be bogus will be rejected. Which means that if your location field does NOT match the actual location of your registration IP address, then your registration will be rejected.

    Sorry about the strictness of this requirement, but it is necessary to block spammers and scammers at the door as much as possible.

Dissapointed in natal rats

waldo

waldo

Crazy Tarantula Lady
I've had my trio of natals for a little over 6 months now, while its very nice not having the smell of mice I am VERY dissapointed in their reproduction rate.
The most babies in one litter has been 9, usually its 4-6 though and the mothers are prone to eating the babies. Also they are only having a litter every 6 weeks or more.
Is this common with these guys? I though they produced like mad? I have kept a couple young females and they are still barely hopper size though they are over 3 months old. I'm seriously considering putting down the whole colony and going back to mice:(
 
They should be producing 7-12 every 24 or so days.

What are you feeding your natal rats? Try adding sunflower seeds, millet, and oats (whole and rolled) to a diet of rodent blocks.

Do your rats have a wheel? I find that they have so much nervous energy, they need to run to stay happy.

Also, check your water bottles. I find mine go through water much faster than I first expected.
 
They get a mix of dog food and packaged rodent seeds. I also offer them fresh fruits and veggies but they won't eat any.
They do have a wheel but I have to take it out at times, the mothers would rather run in it then feed babies, a few have died from starvation because of the wheel.
They get plenty of water, refill the bottle every 2 days.

When I had mice, I had babies running out my ears but hated the smell. I will give the natals a couple more months but I'm getting some mice tomorrow since I have 3 small snakes to feed.
 
waldo said:
They get a mix of dog food and packaged rodent seeds. I also offer them fresh fruits and veggies but they won't eat any.
They do have a wheel but I have to take it out at times, the mothers would rather run in it then feed babies, a few have died from starvation because of the wheel.
They get plenty of water, refill the bottle every 2 days.

When I had mice, I had babies running out my ears but hated the smell. I will give the natals a couple more months but I'm getting some mice tomorrow since I have 3 small snakes to feed.
Click to expand...

Maybe you got bad stock? Mine are doing great with wheels, lab blocks, oats, and birdseed (which includes sunflower and millet). Moms take good care of the babies and produce well. Sorry yours aren't working out.
 
Thats possible. I might try putting them into a larger cage and see what happens. I'll also try some rodent block, its just so expensive around here.
 
I'm just curious about something...how do you guys pronounce "Natal"? I live in S.Africa, Natal is a province here.

"Nay-tal" is incorrect...it's pronounced closer to "Nuh-tal"...anyways, was just curious...lol
 
Velvet said:
I'm just curious about something...how do you guys pronounce "Natal"? I live in S.Africa, Natal is a province here.

"Nay-tal" is incorrect...it's pronounced closer to "Nuh-tal"...anyways, was just curious...lol
Click to expand...

They get their name (scientific name Praoymis natalensis or Mastomys natalensis) from your province, so "Nuh-tal". :)
 
I would try the lab block in a wire hopper, as well as a larger enclosure if the current one is small.

Do they have any kind of hide or nesting box?

My first thought also was that you may have ended up with sub-par breeding stock, but there could be environmental or diet issues as well.

Are you still just breeding from the original trio? How old where they when you got them?

Eating the young, refusing to nurse them, small litters, failure of the young to thrive... all to me seem to point towards a deficient diet.

At 3 months they should be about full adult size and able to breed.
 
Are you all talking about African Soft Furred Rats (ASF)? If so, I've heard they aren't nearly as good of producers as domestic rats and mice and that it can take several months for a colony to establish.
 
Yes, I am still breeding the original trio. They were around three months old when I got them and have only been producing for about 4 months. They are in a 15 gallon with a nice big hide and a wheel. When I handle the adults they seem kind boney so maybe it is a diet issue. I feed our domestic rats the same things though and they are doing great.
I'll look into the rodent block. I just wish I could buy it by the pound and not have to get a 50lb bag.

When I raised regular mice, I would get litters of 14+ almost every time and they were alot calmer.
 
Hmmm

I would have tried a way to keep the smell down,I breed mice and rats but change there bedding about every 3 days. The only bad thing about that it kinda stresses out the rats but I still get good numbers of them.I have webster mice they breed for along time and the older females have 20 babys at a time!
 
I don't think anyone claims that ASF are better producers than mice...
Mine produce well enough, but are not nearly as prolific as albino mice. They get larger than mice and they don't smell, which are still enough reason for me to keep with them.

Try a good lab block like Mazuri or Harlan, and provide a constant 24 hr supply of it in wire hoppers. Get the 50 lb bag and freeze as much as possible,it will last over a year that way. Normal shelf life on Mazuri they claim is 9 months. It shouldn't be more than $24 or so for a 50 lb bag, optimally closer to 18.

15 gal with 1.2 is plenty of space, that's what my main colony has been living in since day one.
 
Last edited:
Before I got them I had read all about how they have 20+ babies and get much bigger then regular mice. I've had plenty of mice the same size as my natals.
The lab block I can get here runs around $39 for a big bag and I have no way to freeze that much. I can get the smaller 5 pound bags for $10. I don't really want to feed block though, I've tried it with other rodents, they wouldn't eat it all, almost lost one female rat to starvation:shrugs:

I think it would be better for me to just switch back to mice for awhile. Once my three small snakes are big enought to take rat pinks I won't have any use for breeder mice anyways, at least not until I start breeding corns and thats at least another yr, possible two away.

Too bad there isn't someone around here who could take the natals, I hate to just feed them off since it was so hard to find them in the first place.
 
Well, they DO get bigger than mice, about twice as big as the largest mouse.
And while they have 22 or 24 nipples and can handle large litters, the largest I have seen is 18 and most are in the 12-15 range. Sometimes much smaller than that.

Sounds like it's not worth dealing with them if you can't get decent lab block cheap enough. The fact that none of yours are larger than a mouse shows there is either a diet problem, or they aren't even ASF/Natal rats to begin with.
 
They are definitely ASF. The biggest is about the size of a gerbil and that is roughly the same size as the breeder mice I had.

I've already started feeding off the younger ones I have. I will feed off the adults after they have their next litters. I'm not sure exactlly where these guys came from, the lady I bought them from had them shipped from the East coast by FedEx (illegally shipped) They were infested with mites but I treated them.

Thanks for all the advice. If I ever get the chance to buy nice breeders, I might try again.
 
blckkat said:
Are you all talking about African Soft Furred Rats (ASF)? If so, I've heard they aren't nearly as good of producers as domestic rats and mice and that it can take several months for a colony to establish.
Click to expand...

ASFR, multi-mammate mice, multimammate rats, natal rats, mus natalensis, rattus natalensis, praomys natalenis, mastomys natalensis, and mastomys hildebrandtii are all the same beastie. :)

Mine started producing between 60-80 days old and have consistantly had litters of 8-14, usually 23 or so days apart. Many people report having trouble with them, but I've found them remarkably easy.

More info here: http://www.batwrangler.net/multimammate/
 
wow batwrangler, your rats look huge compared to mine. I took this for comparison, its the best I could do as they won't stay on my hand, very jumpy critters.

DSC02388.jpg


Any chance I could get pictures of other peoples caging? how about this wire food hopper i keep hearing about, I've looked for one but have no idea what it looks like.
 
waldo said:
wow batwrangler, your rats look huge compared to mine. I took this for comparison, its the best I could do as they won't stay on my hand, very jumpy critters.

Any chance I could get pictures of other peoples caging? how about this wire food hopper i keep hearing about, I've looked for one but have no idea what it looks like.
Click to expand...

My full-term females weigh between 90-100 grams and drop to about 60-70 grams post partum. The adult males tend to weigh between 60-70 grams.

I have a wire hopper for rats at home that I can take a picture of, but you can make a hopper out of 1/4-in hardware cloth. You make a rectangular box with one open end out of hardware cloth, using wire or specially sold clips and crimpers to "tape" the edges shut, then you use wire to attach the feeder to the lid of the cage.

Lab cage lids have built-in feeders.

There may also be feeder baskets commercially available, but I don't know of any off the top of my head (the place I got mine from doesn't make them anymore, as far as I know).
 
I wouldn't use dog food for Natals myself - I find mine won't eat it - they leave the dog food in my homemade mix and eat the rabbit mix and wildbird mix instead.

A friend of mine who built up a colony of thousands from an initial trio in less than a year fed his fresh leafy green vegetables (Collard greens) and horse carrots, plus a cheap rabbit mix - and always got large litters and females who cared for their babies no problems.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top