• Hello!

    Either you have not registered on this site yet, or you are registered but have not logged in. In either case, you will not be able to use the full functionality of this site until you have registered, and then logged in after your registration has been approved.

    Registration is FREE, so please register so you can participate instead of remaining a lurker....

    Please be certain that the location field is correctly filled out when you register. All registrations that appear to be bogus will be rejected. Which means that if your location field does NOT match the actual location of your registration IP address, then your registration will be rejected.

    Sorry about the strictness of this requirement, but it is necessary to block spammers and scammers at the door as much as possible.

Experimenting with Kisatchies

CAV said:
Why would you want to take a special locality specimen and turn it into a run-of-the-mill normal? In theory, it defeats the whole purpose of the project.
Click to expand...


no it doesn't. it's no different than what people have done with the okeetees. reverse okees, aztec okees, etc.

"run of the mill normal"- seems that with all these different morphs, people forget how beautiful a "run of the mill normal" can be. those normals will be hets for hopefully, some interesting things.
 
Hurley said:
Although I will say this...if you are going to explore morphs of Corn/Kisatchies, why not pick a more interesting mutation than amel. ;)



.
Click to expand...


i figured amel is the most logical first choice for experimenting. the plan is to get a male kisatchie and 3 different females. an amel motley, a hypo bloodred, and i'm still undecided on the 3rd choice.
 
sumguy said:
He probably wants to keep his lines pure. I think if you bred them to a regular cornsnake morph such as an amel, you shouldn't call them amel kisatchies but some other name that indicates they may be a (hybrid?) kind of like creamsicles. Personally, I like darker colored animals and would be more intersted in a locality animal than a morph.
Click to expand...


i asked don if he ever did any experimenting with kisatchies and he said he thought about it but doesn't have enough time for it. he thought the idea of a striped or motley kisatchie was cool.


i'll wait on name suggestions once i produce some f2's, in about 6 years,lol.
 
E. g. guttata said:
Another fun name would be Kisscorn. Not too long, but just sarcastic enough...
Click to expand...

Other than the band suing for royalties...they have their name on EVERYTHING else known to man...LOL

Seriously...I think combining Kisatchie would be a GREAT project...and am surprised that it ISN'T being done (to anyone posting's knowledge) currently...

Here is my question for all you genetics gurus out there...do you have enough information to possibly classify these snakes as Hypermelanistic...or Hypoerythristic? Or neither.
(I feel that hypoery (pronounce THAT for me) is closer to what this would look like...)
Is it simple recessive or line bred?
If it IS line bred...it may prove to be entirely useless for most crosses...although I personally like the way they look, and have an appreciation for true locale snakes.
 
Alias47 said:
hypoery (pronounce THAT for me)
Click to expand...
Ok... "THAT" ;)

Uhh, I mean "hypo, air-y." :D

I think that the look is selectively bred by nature. (It's thought that the species originated from an intergradation of emoryi and corn, but I haven't heard of any confirmation or denial of that theory by any scientific studies.)

There will probably not be anything het for kisatchie. I'm sure the F2s will be different anyway. Probably look quite a bit like creamsicles, especially if they are selectively bred intergrades.
 
LOL...

I agree that it is most likely a selectively bred trait and not a simple genetic trait. Which is entirely too bad...they'd look good with one of the hypo traits in them.
 
You strengthened my point while trying to counter it

wikkedkornman said:
no it doesn't. it's no different than what people have done with the okeetees. reverse okees, aztec okees, etc.

"run of the mill normal"- seems that with all these different morphs, people forget how beautiful a "run of the mill normal" can be. those normals will be hets for hopefully, some interesting things.
Click to expand...

You're right; it is no different that what people have done with Okeetee or Hogg Island Boas or any of a dozen other locality snakes. Once you cross a locality specimen with anything other than another locality identical animal, it is no longer "unique" but "normal".

I perfectly understand the beauty of a standard cornsnake, just look at my avatar. But if I crossed that beautiful locality Okeetee with an amel, it wouldn’t produce a single locality Okeetee. ;)
 
I agree, crossing any non-kisatchies to kisatchies will not create locality animals.

But the point of the cross is not to create a locality animal.

If Okeetees make offspring tending toward large borders and bold colors, what better way to make an amel with large borders and bold colors than to cross in a snake exhibiting those characteristics?

Same with crossing Keys/Rosy into a line. Miamis, too. Etc.

The idea is to bring certain characteristics of a given line into a different line, and create a new line with its own unique merits. :cheers:
 
I WASN'T TRYING TO COUNTER YOUR POINT.I was just saying that it's no different than what people are doing with okeetees. that's all.
i don't expect the offspring to be anything "special". i'm doing it because of my own curiousity, and i'd also like to do a project that no one else has tried. i don't want to do something that "everyone and their brother" is doing. what fun is that?
sure the F2's may resemble a creamsicle, but who knows, i could get a surprise and get something that looks different, i'll never know until i try, so that's what i'm gonna do :)
 
Serpwidgets said:
I agree, crossing any non-kisatchies to kisatchies will not create locality animals.

But the point of the cross is not to create a locality animal.

If Okeetees make offspring tending toward large borders and bold colors, what better way to make an amel with large borders and bold colors than to cross in a snake exhibiting those characteristics?

Same with crossing Keys/Rosy into a line. Miamis, too. Etc.

The idea is to bring certain characteristics of a given line into a different line, and create a new line with its own unique merits. :cheers:
Click to expand...


someone who gets the idea. thank you serp.
 
sumguy said:
I think if you bred them to a regular cornsnake morph such as an amel, you shouldn't call them amel kisatchies but some other name that indicates they may be a (hybrid?) kind of like creamsicles.
Click to expand...

the term "creamsicle" is not descriptive of a hybrid, IMO. it describes the color. when i first saw and heard of creamsicles a few years back, i thought maybe they were selectively bred amels, focusing on the orange. it wasn't til i read somewhere about them that i found out they're hybrids. someone coined the term "creamsicle" and it has stood the test of time, and now when we hear the term, we know it's a hybrid, but someone just getting into corns wouldn't know it was a hybrid just based on the name. my point is that "creamsicle" more or less describes the color, not the fact that it's a hybrid. the only way to accurately describe a hybrid would be to call them emoryi/corn cross or king/corn cross, etc. the best attempt i've seen was someone selling jungle corns as king corns. to me king corn is more descriptive of a hybrid than jungle corn is. i knew before even clicking the link to find out what it was, that it had to be a jungle corn.

ask someone that knows very little or nothing at all about corns , what a jungle corn is and what a creamsicle corn is. i bet no one will guess that they are hybrids.
 
I bought a creamsicle male a few years back and it wasn't until this year that I learned it was a hybrid. Thanks to this forum I know that now.
 
wikkedkornman said:
i don't expect the offspring to be anything "special". i'm doing it because of my own curiousity, and i'd also like to do a project that no one else has tried. i don't want to do something that "everyone and their brother" is doing. what fun is that?
sure the F2's may resemble a creamsicle, but who knows, i could get a surprise and get something that looks different, i'll never know until i try, so that's what i'm gonna do :)
Click to expand...


well, i for one, tip my hat to ya for coming up with something original.

i also agree with you that creamsicle is not descriptive of a hybrid, it's more descriptive of color/look. same goes for the frosted corns ( grey rat x corn ).
it would probably be pretty hard to come up with a "catchy" name that tells people right away it's a hybrid.
 
I love the way Kisatchies look and if I could afford to get one, I'd try a project with them. Anyway, good luck with your Kisatchie project and make sure to post pics.
 
wikkedkornman said:
I WASN'T TRYING TO COUNTER YOUR POINT.
Click to expand...

Sorry, I somehow mistakenly got that impression when you wrote "no it doesn't". Silly me..... ;)
 
CAV said:
I perfectly understand the beauty of a standard cornsnake, just look at my avatar. But if I crossed that beautiful locality Okeetee with an amel, it wouldn’t produce a single locality Okeetee. ;)
Click to expand...

that's right, but those run of the mill normals could still end up being beautiful animals. nothing special or unique, but still attractive.


CAV said:
Sorry, I somehow mistakenly got that impression when you wrote "no it doesn't". Silly me.....
Click to expand...

i wasn't trying to counter what you were saying, i meant NO IT DOESNT defeat the whole purpose of my intended project, because just like serp said, the purpose of the project isn't to create a locality animal............., if you had read my very first post you may have realized that creating a locality isn't my intention.


maybe you're too thick to get what i'm saying, so, whatever man. you have your views and i'll have mine ;)
 
Who said you were trying to create a locality animal?

I'm quite clear on what you're saying, it just isn't coherently related to your original post. The bottom line is that I have a different opinion on this issue that you. That doesn't make me "thick", nor does it make you "right". ;)
 
what isn't clear? i plainly stated that my intentions are to breed kisatchie X amel and breed those F1's together to see what the F2's look like, and i asked for suggestions on other morphs to try breeding a kisatchie to. what isn't clear about that? at no time did i ever say i wanted to make a "locality".


CAV said:
I'm quite clear on what you're saying, it just isn't coherently related to your original post. The bottom line is that I have a different opinion on this issue that you. That doesn't make me "thick", nor does it make you "right".
Click to expand...

no s**t sherlock. it's all a matter of personal preference/opinion. but i do think you are a little thick headed. you can't seem to see anything other than the way you choose to see it. have your opinions, and i'll have mine, and we can just agree to disagree, got it?
 
wikkedkornman said:
what isn't clear? i plainly stated that my intentions are to breed kisatchie X amel and breed those F1's together to see what the F2's look like, and i asked for suggestions on other morphs to try breeding a kisatchie to. what isn't clear about that? at no time did i ever say i wanted to make a "locality".




no s**t sherlock. it's all a matter of personal preference/opinion. but i do think you are a little thick headed. you can't seem to see anything other than the way you choose to see it. have your opinions, and i'll have mine, and we can just agree to disagree, got it?
Click to expand...
Ok wikked. Time to stop throwing you hissy fit. Cav never said anything against you wanting to experiment. What he did say was that he didn't see the point in taking a naturally occuring locality morph and turning it into a project. He never said it was wrong. He is not acting "thick headed" but meerly stating his opinion on why he doesn't see the point. You, however, are acting extreemly childish and defensive. He does have a point that breeding corns and kisatchies will take away from the special locality of the animals produced, but he never chastized you for wanting to do so.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top