Expert DOR Indentification Help

[Spurticus]

For the Experts on the board. Is this a Mud Snake ?
If so, the sick feeling in my stomach just got a lot worse. Spotted this
snake a short time ago on my lunch break. It was taken near the edge of
the Congaree National Forrest in Columbia SC. I have never seen one of
these before (except pictures), and from what I read, they are rarely seen
even by expert Herpetologists. The most sickening part is that it looked like
the head was cut off. There are no other signs of Preditor Mutilation other
than the head removed, and from the rigidness of the snake, it had been
there a while. ..... This is the belly of the snake. I turned it over and the
top of the snake was very dark (almost completely black). I was going to
snap a couple more pictures, but a line of cars were approaching and I
didn't want to hold up traffic.

 

[MotleyMedusa7]

aww..that really does look like a mud snake --how sad!

 

[MotleyMedusa7]

http://srelherp.uga.edu/snakes/faraba.htm

 

[Spurticus]

http://srelherp.uga.edu/snakes/faraba.htm

Thanx Medusa.... I visit that site a lot. I went there first as soon
as I got back here to my office. I thought (after I got close enough for
pictures of this snake), that it was a Mud Snake, and then when I
checked this site, I was pretty sure. I wanted to make absolutely sure
by asking someone as well to make sure I wasn't mistaking it for an
adult Banded watersnake etc..

When I saw if from a distance I thought it was a Scarlet snake or Scarlet
King. Those are still on my "To See" list. I backed up and got out to take
the pictures and was fairly sure of what it was. Especially after I flipped
it over. Unfortunately I've seen too many DOR snake around that area. I
ride around that stretch of road at least once a day, and have seen
hundreds of snakes over the last few years. Sadly though, some of the
nicest finds are all like this one. Last year not far from this spot, I past
a large truck, and about 1/4 after, I ran up on a VERY freshly run over
4 ft. Pine Snake (tail Still flintching). Had to have just been hit by the
truck.

 

[El Jefe]

Yeah, that's a mud.

They are uncommon but not impossible to find. I have found several in and around the area you were looking. The hardest part about finding these buggers is they are very aquatic...but not like water snakes. They prefer the mucky and muddy edges of wetlands and like to be under rocks and logs. I have had reasonably good luck finding them in the rip rap of bridges at night as well as crossing roads in heavy rain.

 

[Nanci]

The belly markings make me wonder if this snake rolls over or otherwise exposes its belly as a defense.

 

[Camby]

The belly markings make me wonder if this snake rolls over or otherwise exposes its belly as a defense.

Hmmm, not sure about their natural behaviors so it could be a possibility. I have seen and caught (never kept) probably 10-15 of them over the past 5 years and so far the only defensive behavior I have witnessed is them trying to "sting" me. Their tail is fairl pointed and very hard. Several have tried sticking me witht he tail. Of course it doesn't hurt, but they try. I think they use that to immobilize their prey (crayfish, eels and fish I assume) by pinning them down. Knock on wood, I have never even had one strike at me. Too bad they have such a select diet or I would love to have a small group of these guys.

dc

 

[Spurticus]

Yeah, that's a mud.

They are uncommon but not impossible to find. I have found several in and around the area you were looking. The hardest part about finding these buggers is they are very aquatic...but not like water snakes. They prefer the mucky and muddy edges of wetlands and like to be under rocks and logs. I have had reasonably good luck finding them in the rip rap of bridges at night as well as crossing roads in heavy rain.

Probably the case with this one before it was killed. The spot where I
found this one was about 1/4 mile from where this road runs back into
the main road. It is part of a large Loop around some farmland and
marshy / swampy areas. Part of this "Loop" includes a stretch of about
a mile of gravel road that runs along some large ditches that are filled
with wather and resemble a small swamp. It's around those swampy areas
where I see a lot of snakes in the Spring ans Summer. Mostly black Rats,
Black Racers and Copperheads. ..... This spot however, there is a large
area of Marsh on both sides of the road, and it had rained fairly heavily
the night before so it could have been crossing the road during the rain.

 

[El Jefe]

Probably the case with this one before it was killed. The spot where I
found this one was about 1/4 mile from where this road runs back into
the main road. It is part of a large Loop around some farmland and
marshy / swampy areas. Part of this "Loop" includes a stretch of about
a mile of gravel road that runs along some large ditches that are filled
with wather and resemble a small swamp. It's around those swampy areas
where I see a lot of snakes in the Spring ans Summer. Mostly black Rats,
Black Racers and Copperheads. ..... This spot however, there is a large
area of Marsh on both sides of the road, and it had rained fairly heavily
the night before so it could have been crossing the road during the rain.

Yep that would be my guess. I have only every found these cruising during and right after heavy rains on only in swampy areas where water is on both sides of the road.

 

[Rich Z]

Mud snakes used to be rather common on the road to my home years ago. But I guess so many of them got killed on the road that I just haven't seen any for years now. They are actually rather pretty animals. Too bad their diet would make them difficult captives.

 

[Spurticus]

Mud snakes used to be rather common on the road to my home years ago. But I guess so many of them got killed on the road that I just haven't seen any for years now. They are actually rather pretty animals. Too bad their diet would make them difficult captives.

I've only seen them in pictures and have always wanted to see them live,
and finding one DOR like that was very disappointing. I've spoke with some
people shortly after I moved to Columbia who said that they've seen them
around the Congaree. I work not far from there, and drive around the
edges of it from time to time, but I haven't seen them until I spotted this
dead one the other day.
They are very pretty snakes. Those and Swamp Snakes too. Dark Black
with bright red / Pinkish belly would make them stand out if they were
out in plains sight. At least I have my hopes up now that I'll see one Live.

 

[El Jefe]

Congaree is a great place to herp...I've found loads of stuff around there. My one canebrake was in the campground at Congaree!

 

[Spurticus]

Congaree is a great place to herp...I've found loads of stuff around there. My one canebrake was in the campground at Congaree!

It's funny..I moved to the Columbia area from Upstate SC, and have been
here for almost 10 years now. I keep saying for the past few years I'm
going down to the park and spend a day there looking around, but I haven't
done it yet. I work on Bluff Road, just on the edge of the main part of
the Congaree National park and there's some roads around there I ride on
just looking for snakes early in the morning or in the afternoon when I
get off work. See hundreds of snakes just driving along those gravel roads.
Most of them are Black Racers, Black Rat snakes and Brown snakes.

In Greenville, I used to find Garter snakes, Green Snakes, even some
Pigmy Rattlesnakes, but since I've moved down here, I haven't seen the
first Garter snake or Green Snake yet. Went almost 9 years before seeing
my first Copperhead down here, then saw 3 within a couple of weeks last
year. I haven't been on any "official" herping trips, but I've got some friends
who want to go out early this summer and have invited me to go with them.
Hopefully I'll get to take advantage of that offer here in a couple of months.

 

[El Jefe]

In Greenville, I used to find Garter snakes, Green Snakes, even some
Pigmy Rattlesnakes,

I'd love to be introduced to a pygmy rattlesnake spot in the Greenville area!!!

 

[Rich Z]

It should be noted that the ONLY time I saw mud snakes on the roads was after or during heavy rains. And usually in the late evening and nighttime hours.

 

[Spurticus]

I'd love to be introduced to a pygmy rattlesnake spot in the Greenville area!!!

I grew up in South Greenville County (Fountain Inn / Simpsonville area).
Ran across a pigmy Rattlesnake in Fountain Inn playing golf once. It was
in some pine needles not far from where I'd hit my ball. I thought it was
a hognose snake at first until I got closer to it and realized what it was.
Saw another one about 3 years before I moved down here around the
place where I used to work in S'ville. (right off I-385 near the Standing
Springs Road Exit). The Fire Department was there doing some Extinguisher
training for our Employees, and some lady started screaming SNAKE !
She almost stepped on top of it during the Demo. Unfortunately by the
time I got over to see what the screaming was for, another guy dropped
a large rock on it.

 

[Spurticus]

It should be noted that the ONLY time I saw mud snakes on the roads was after or during heavy rains. And usually in the late evening and nighttime hours.

I had only seen them in pictures until the one I took last week. I had always
hoped to see one live just because of the beauty of the ones I've seen
in pictures. Those and Swamp Snakes too. .... Really gives you an empty
feeling when you come across one like this.
Makes me want to go out to that same area now at night when it's
raining hard to see if I can find a live one !

:laugh: