Eyeless Bloodred het Hypo, Lavender

[blichtenhan]

no-eye snakes

I had a burmese python 30 years ago with no eyes, he did great, lived several years until an accident killed him.....he was very similar to this snake, no eyes at all, no eye sockets, just scales. I did not attempt to breed him.
I am curious why noone would breed this snake? He could not survive in the wild, that is true, but he is just a snake with out eyes, and we love snakes without melanin, or without red pigmentation, or purple snakes, or with weird patterns, and it seems like most people are ok with snakes without scales.
Some people are ok with breeding a ball python to a blood python, or a corn to a king............but in this thread, it looks like 100% say no to breeding an eyeless corn. I am not saying yea or nay, just curious for more depth on the reasoning.
Yes, there could be other bad mutations that go with eyelessness(is that a word?), but what if this snake is otherwise 100% healthy, just eyeless?

 

[BobbyHill]

I had a burmese python 30 years ago with no eyes, he did great, lived several years until an accident killed him.....he was very similar to this snake, no eyes at all, no eye sockets, just scales. I did not attempt to breed him.
I am curious why noone would breed this snake? He could not survive in the wild, that is true, but he is just a snake with out eyes, and we love snakes without melanin, or without red pigmentation, or purple snakes, or with weird patterns, and it seems like most people are ok with snakes without scales.
Some people are ok with breeding a ball python to a blood python, or a corn to a king............but in this thread, it looks like 100% say no to breeding an eyeless corn. I am not saying yea or nay, just curious for more depth on the reasoning.
Yes, there could be other bad mutations that go with eyelessness(is that a word?), but what if this snake is otherwise 100% healthy, just eyeless?

You've just opened Pandora's Box. *sits down and munches some popcorn*

 

[VickyChaiTea]

LOL @ Bobby Hill

@blichtenhan, the fact that the snake is doing fine is basically pure luck. There are still chances that it has other development problems on the INSIDE that we don't know about, and we don't need that in the gene pool. Breeding a snake in different colors does not (as far as we know) affect it's health, so it's fine.

 

[diamondlil]

LOL @ Bobby Hill

@blichtenhan, the fact that the snake is doing fine is basically pure luck. There are still chances that it has other development problems on the INSIDE that we don't know about, and we don't need that in the gene pool. Breeding a snake in different colors does not (as far as we know) affect it's health, so it's fine.

But colour mutation in other animals can affect their health, for example the lethal yellow gene in mice, as well as the patched gene that is linked with deformed GI tract. So, the eyeless snake could be linked to other problems or be as harmless as anery:shrugs: Although I wouldn't want one, I wouldn't want a scaleless corn either, but only because I prefer them with eyes and scales

 

[VickyChaiTea]

Well, you wouldn't breed a line of blind cats/horses/dogs, would you? Why breed an eyeless snake?

Obviously, breeding an animal in a color that is linked to health problems is a bad idea, and I should have mentioned that lol.

 

[diamondlil]

Well, you wouldn't breed a line of blind cats/horses/dogs, would you? Why breed an eyeless snake?

Obviously, breeding an animal in a color that is linked to health problems is a bad idea, and I should have mentioned that lol.

I wouldn't, but then I wouldn't want a 'skinny pig', bald mice or scaleless snakes either! Where I go riding there's a cremello mare who gets terribly sunburnt without high factor cream, IMO no matter how pretty she is that's bad breeding too.
Back on topic, I'm glad Blind Joe is doing well, and if I had a similar snake pop up in my breeding I know I'd try to give it a chance and a home for life!

 

[VickyChaiTea]

I agree about the bald mice/scaless snake/horse, diamondlil. I've never heard of a "skinny pig" though. Explain?

 

[diamondlil]

Hairless guinea pigs!

 

[VickyChaiTea]

D: Weird. And along the same lines as hairless mice/rats.

 

[BobbyHill]

Hairless guinea pigs!

Is there really such a thing? Say it ain't so?

Edit: Oh dear lord I did a Google Image Search. That's kind of scary lookin'.

 

[Floof]

Oh, wow! What a gorgeous snake... And the eyelessness adds to that in its own, unique way. It's great to hear he's doing well.

I had a burmese python 30 years ago with no eyes, he did great, lived several years until an accident killed him.....he was very similar to this snake, no eyes at all, no eye sockets, just scales. I did not attempt to breed him.
I am curious why noone would breed this snake? He could not survive in the wild, that is true, but he is just a snake with out eyes, and we love snakes without melanin, or without red pigmentation, or purple snakes, or with weird patterns, and it seems like most people are ok with snakes without scales.
Some people are ok with breeding a ball python to a blood python, or a corn to a king............but in this thread, it looks like 100% say no to breeding an eyeless corn. I am not saying yea or nay, just curious for more depth on the reasoning.
Yes, there could be other bad mutations that go with eyelessness(is that a word?), but what if this snake is otherwise 100% healthy, just eyeless?

I'm going to offer a slightly different view on this.

Color mutations and no eyes are two very different things. The color mutations, yes, alter their ability to survive in the wild, and some may affect other health factors in the snake... But changing a snake's coloration and removing its eyesight are two very different things. It would be irresponsible to create blind animals simply for their aesthetic appeal. Just like many people (myself included) find it irresponsible and rather ridiculous to remove a snake's scales or breed together two vastly different snakes just for that same aesthetic appeal and "coolness" factor...

Just my two cents. Hope it made sense. =3

It would be interesting, though, to find out exactly how easily inherited this kind of defect is... As in, WOULD it be safe to breed the siblings, or pair together the parents again? :shrugs:

 

[VickyChaiTea]

I was actually interested in that too, Floof. At least one of the parents obviously carries it, and the siblings might too. It might show up only once in a blue moon, but it's still not something that needs to be out there.

 

[anadyne]

My heart just squeezes looking at him, I think he's wonderful and gorgeous! I too have had probably more than my share of animals missing parts, with extra parts, with birth defects and wobbly chances of survival. Most - nearly all - have grown to be act completely normally for their breed with some small accommodation made for their limitations. It's easier when they're born that way - their entire body, all their senses become hard-wired to work with what they've got.

Also, it's a really neat education in the strength of his other senses. I hope he lives a long and happy, healthy life.

 

[SANDWiCH]

i wonder what the skull looks like. I wonder if there are eyes and they are underdeveloped. I wonder if there are even rotators sockets. Wish I could get in there and see that mutation...my evolutionary biologist brother thinks the egg got too hot for a long time and reacted differently to a lighting situation in the nest box....but he said it was most likely a "evolutionary risk" or something that a species does to see if it works better. Like if he became the more adapt one without eyes then the eyeless gene would continue. He states that its the same way snakes developed from lizards by losing limbs. He also says that the scale pattern on the shed is really scary and to not breed him out because his scale pattern has no deformity which leads him to think that the snake would produce all eyeless....like the next evolutionary step.

 

[tom e]

I personally have an evil curiosity. I would just want to know if it's inheritable. I have no interest in having them, no interest in selling them, it doesn't appeal to me as a morph. I just would want to know.

 

[BobbyHill]

Well of course you're curious, Tom. That's natural. But I bet you'd know better than to try...

 

[VinnyJ]

i wonder what the skull looks like. I wonder if there are eyes and they are underdeveloped. I wonder if there are even rotators sockets. Wish I could get in there and see that mutation...my evolutionary biologist brother thinks the egg got too hot for a long time and reacted differently to a lighting situation in the nest box....but he said it was most likely a "evolutionary risk" or something that a species does to see if it works better. Like if he became the more adapt one without eyes then the eyeless gene would continue. He states that its the same way snakes developed from lizards by losing limbs. He also says that the scale pattern on the shed is really scary and to not breed him out because his scale pattern has no deformity which leads him to think that the snake would produce all eyeless....like the next evolutionary step.

You can tell a little from the pics that he seems to have the eye sockets. At least that's what it looks like to me. The scales are slightly indented where the eye socket would be.

I personally have an evil curiosity. I would just want to know if it's inheritable. I have no interest in having them, no interest in selling them, it doesn't appeal to me as a morph. I just would want to know.

I could see breeding a snake like this just to find out if it was inheritable. I'm a little curious too but not enough to actually try it.

 

[tom e]

You're right, I most likely would not. If I saw it popping up often with certain animals though and was getting the idea that it was inheritable, I probably would want to know more about it. Problem is, I don't have the understanding to run such an 'experiment', or to make sense of the results.
I doubt this is something that's a simple recessive gene..

 

[sweet~nichole~marie]

I was actually interested in that too, Floof. At least one of the parents obviously carries it, and the siblings might too. It might show up only once in a blue moon, but it's still not something that needs to be out there.

Not necessarily. There may have been a point mutation that affected the gene(s) that codes for eye development just in this snake. There are enzymes that proofread DNA to make sure that any mis-matches are caught (when DNA replicates), but it is not 100% sure. There may have been environmental factors affecting development. There may have been issues with the chromosome pairs splitting properly during egg and sperm formation and he just ended up with the bad egg/sperm. Just because a mutation shows up in one snake, doesn't necessarily mean the problem is an inherited genetic issue. I'm not saying that it is ok to breed him, because if the mutation affected his DNA, then yes, he could pass that to his offspring, but if he is the only snake to hatch from this set of parents, it doesn't mean they are tainted. Now, if Vinny bred them again and another eyeless snake shows up, then statistically there would be some evidence for the parents carrying the mutation. But if these parents have bred before and never had problems, then the issue is most likely with this one snake, and the siblings/parents would probably be safe to breed in the future. There really is no way of knowing with a sample size of one *LOL*

 

[Camby]

Well, you wouldn't breed a line of blind cats/horses/dogs, would you? Why breed an eyeless snake?

Obviously, breeding an animal in a color that is linked to health problems is a bad idea, and I should have mentioned that lol.

I have just discovered this post due to the recent activity. After reading it all, I am perplexed why nearly everyone is so against breeding him? For starters it is likely not that easily inherited, but even if it was passed on is that really such a big deal for a captive bred animal? Especially a snake? He is not blind in the true sense, think about it, snakes "see" more with their tongue than their eyes. If he were in the wild this would likely be weeded out with him dying at th e hands of an overhead predator, but he will live in a container.

This is nothing like a blind dog/horse or cat, they are very dependant on thier eye sight along with sense of smell.

I am not saying you should or shouldn't, I just don't undersatnd most peoples "don't perpetuate a "blind" line of corns.

I do find it intereting that the color band seems to stop as if his eye was there rather than extending across the foreign skin. Just an observation. SMR hatched out an eyeless Charcoal I think and I believe it made it to full adulthood with no issues, it eats and moves fine. I'll try and find the pic of that snake if I can.

dc