Freezing

[Itsnowingcorns]

I heard that putting reptiles in the freezer is a humane way of killing them painlessly if they have an incurable disease but I just read on this forum that it is NOT. What do you think?

 

[Kel]

There are differing views, but the latest I've heard of is a paper published earlier this year in "The Herptile" (journal of the International Herpetological Society). This states that freezing is inhumane as it is now known that reptiles' nervous systems behave very differently than those of mammals. Essentially, snakes can remain conscious under extreme conditions and current thinking is that they are conscious throughout the freezing process with all the pain and distress that this entails (rupturing blood vessels, eyes etc. as the ice crystals form). The article was written by fully qualified vets, so it was enough to give me pause for thought.

There was further input on a UK forum from a reptile rescue expert, who put forward her view that even decapitation does not cause instant death, because a reptile's brain can survive for much longer than a mammal's without oxygen. The severed head may continue to react to its surroundings for some time and death is therefore not instantaneous. This person's view was that the only true way of ensuring an instant and painless death for a suffering reptile, was a blow to the head forceful enough to destroy the brain.

Lethal injection was also discussed, but it was said that a reptile will need a much larger dose than a vet would use for a mammal (due to the fact that their nervous systems behave in a different way than a mammal's). Therefore, unless a vet can be persuaded to increase the dose to three times what they would expect to use per bodyweight for a mammal, it's possible for a snake that has been lethally injected, to still be conscious when the body is disposed of.

Please PM me if you'd like links to these discussions and I'll try to dig them out.

 

[crossmen]

Aother words there is no good method. People are funny, you have to choose what you think is best and go with it, because a life of suffering is sometimes worse than death.
JMO
Peace
Paul

 

[Kel]

Guess so Paul, but there's a difference between a slow, painful death that just adds to suffering and an instant, painless death. Opinions change over the years as our knowledge improves. I'd never freeze again after reading the thread that Itsnowingcorns pointed to. Like you say, we each have to do what we think is best.

 

[crossmen]

But if you read that thread completely there is no good way to put down a reptile quickly except destroying the brain. Even injects are ineffective. Few people have the intestinal fortitude to crush an animals skull with one quick blow or the skill to shoot an animal in the head. I think to many people attach feeling to animals that do not have the capacity. A reptile can not 'feel' what we feel because they do NOT have the same nervous system we have nor a soul. If only we would apply as much concern to our fellow humans what a better world we would have.
Again JMO take it or ignore it.
Peace Paul

 

[Kel]

A reptile can not 'feel' what we feel because they do NOT have the same nervous system

I see what you mean Paul, but any animal can suffer. I do tend to anthropomorphise when it comes to my reptiles being stressed/in pain, but I believe that this is constructive and makes me err on the side of caution when it comes to their wellbeing. But you're right, it would take a lot for me to bop one of my friends over the head. Thankfully it's never come to that in thirteen years of Corn keeping.

In support of your view, my vet (thankfully clued-up about herps) contends that reptiles don't experience pain in the same way as mammals. His view is that a condition or situation that might cause distress in a mammal, won't necessarily cause distress in a reptile because they do react very differently.

 

[ghosthousecorns]

I have never had to euthanize one of my corns and I hope I never will. I did have to put a little gopher snake out of its misery that had been run over by a car, and I crushed its head with my boot, but it was hard to do and I don't think I could do it at all if it was one of my pets. I don't like the idea of freezing either, if they can handle being cold during brumation it seems they would stay alive and conscious for some time in the freezer, a brutal way to go. Would CO2 work like on feeder mice?

 

[MegF.]

I'm a little curious how an animal can"survive" with the head severed. There is no way that the heart and nerves or anything can react with the head cut off. I think they are only seeing a simple nervous system continue to move even though it's dead, much like the frogs muscles in biology still made it hop even though the head was gone. The snakes nervous system is quite simplistic compared to a mammals, and it doesn't stop moving very easily. That's why so many people are killed by the head of dead poisonous snakes. The head bites in a reflex action to stimulus, even though it is not "alive". I would think that beheading would be painless and quick if done properly. Large amounts of CO2 will kill any living thing almost instantaneously if it's in high concentration.