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General Star Gazing Discussion Continuation...

I'm glad you started this thread. I was really learning a lot in the other one and didn't want it to end. :cheers:
 
Hurley said:
On the subject of where to send a star gazer for testing, I've put out some feelers to see who might like to take this project on. We'll see what I get for response.
Think any of your contacts may produce their own, or just take those hatchlings with the affliction?
Just looking for speculation, I know you probably don't have feedback from them yet.
 
Most likely just afflicted hatchlings, but if I get someone really fired up, they may wish to take the line and pursue it. We'll see. I need to give it a couple days and see if I get any nibbles. :D

One thing I would like to see is to cross your known carrier to a known sunkissed line star gazer producer and see if it's the same gene. We haven't proven them the same thing, yet.

If you get a second, can you fire me numbers on what's been produced by who with your line?
 
History of Stargazing...

I think I wrote most or all of this in the new book, but would have to actually look it up to jog my memory. But this is my memory of how it began.

I think we were the first to see the defective baby hypo okeetees because the new okeetee hypo morph turned up in our okeetee lines originally. At first, I thought it was just another occasional defect, like a kinked baby that hatches out now and then. But soon, I realized that it was happening in numbers that made it look like a recessive trait. That was one of the reasons I have never crossed them into any other morph - I don't think I have ever "for sure" (enough to convince me) proven out a particular adult sunkissed to NOT be carrying the gene, if that is what it is. After the first few years, I decided I didn't like them THAT much and started keeping fewer. I always felt they looked too much like the old hypo, were generally irritable, and with the stargazing thrown in, why cross to other types? It will be a shame if that stargazing starts showing up in normals and unrelated morphs.

As already stated, the babies will show the problem as soon as they hatch. I have never had a baby that acted completely normally, and then show signs later. However, some show the trait much more than others.

As for the stargazing name, we started using it when we first saw it because the babies behaved very much like I have seen other snakes with neurological problems behave and described as stargazers. I have seen snakes (pythons) with encephalitis, and also had corns years ago that were overdosed with Flagyl and some that were overdosed on No-Pest Strips behave in much the same way. So we just started calling them stargazers for lack of a better term. But I see now it is confusing to name a congenital problem with the same name as the symptoms of an infectious disease or toxic reaction.
 
Shep151 said:
Original patriarch and matriarch (purchased at a show):
Normal het Amel, Motley/Stripe, Anery
Amel het Motley/Stripe and Anery
Given the shared genes between the two, they are probably siblings
I don't believe they are siblings actually. One was purchased from a local reptile specialty shop. As I recall the other from a show, nearly a year later. It's definately possible but not likely in my opinion.

FWIW...
What I have seen is not the same as what Zach had. Even though it is the same blood line. What I have witnessed is the same as what Connie and Kathy have stated. Straight from the egg they exhibit this behavior. I've also not seen the "twitching"

I would love to test the outcrossing of what I have to the sunkissed line. As I have said before, I have 3 (soon to to be 4) generations of this particular line. Alas, I don't have any sunkissed to test.

Q
 
Sorry, it took me awhile to get back to this.

All 11 eggs hatched. Most have shed and 1 has eaten.

There is no outward sign of any these 'stargazing'.

Q
 
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