Genetic Questions

[Caelan]

If you were to breed a male anerythristic pewter to a female amelanistic, could you get a four gene snake (anery amel charcoal diffused)?

 

[starsevol]

You would end up with all normals het for the 4 genes. If you bred them together you would have a real longshot in producing it.

 

[dave partington]

Maybe this will help.

http://www.corncalc.com/

 

[Caelan]

You would end up with all normals het for the 4 genes. If you bred them together you would have a real longshot in producing it.

so it is possible? could you produce a snow out of it? out does there have to bee two if the same morph in each of the parents to produce a baby one e.g. an anery x amel can't produce a snow but a snow x anery can produce an anery? Sorry if that's unclear

 

[dave partington]

so it is possible? could you produce a snow out of it? out does there have to bee two if the same morph in each of the parents to produce a baby one e.g. an anery x amel can't produce a snow but a snow x anery can produce an anery? Sorry if that's unclear

Your first generation will be all classic/normal colored corns. That will be your F1 generation.
Keep them all, raise them all up.
Then when the babies are mature, breed sibling to sibling.
This will produce the F2 generation.

According to the corn calculator, (which is a calculator, not nature) linked above,
your F2's should be:
27 / 256 Charcoal 66% poss het. Anery, Amel, Diffused
27 / 256 Diffused 66% poss het. Anery, Amel, Charcoal
27 / 256 Amel 66% poss het. Anery, Diffused, Charcoal
81 / 256 Normal 66% poss het. Anery, Amel, Diffused, Charcoal
27 / 256 Anery 66% poss het. Amel, Diffused, Charcoal
9 / 256 Fire ( Amel, Diffused ) 66% poss het. Anery, Charcoal
9 / 256 Pewter ( Charcoal, Diffused ) 66% poss het. Anery, Amel
9 / 256 Snow ( Amel, Anery ) 66% poss het. Diffused, Charcoal
9 / 256 Blizzard ( Amel, Charcoal ) 66% poss het. Anery, Diffused
9 / 256 Granite ( Anery, Diffused ) 66% poss het. Amel, Charcoal
9 / 256 Anery Charcoal ( Anery, Charcoal ) 66% poss het. Amel, Diffused
3 / 256 Whiteout ( Amel, Charcoal, Diffused ) 66% poss het. Anery
3 / 256 Avalanche ( Amel, Anery, Diffused ) 66% poss het. Charcoal
3 / 256 Anery Pewter ( Anery, Charcoal, Diffused ) 66% poss het. Amel
1 / 256 Quartz ( Amel, Anery, Charcoal, Diffused )
3 / 256 Snow, Charcoal ( Amel, Anery, Charcoal ) 66% poss het. Diffused
Genotype:

1 / 256 Normal
1 / 256 Charcoal
1 / 256 Diffused
1 / 256 Amel
1 / 128 Normal het Amel
1 / 128 Normal het Anery
1 / 256 Anery
1 / 128 Normal het Diffused
1 / 128 Normal het Charcoal
1 / 128 Charcoal het Amel
1 / 128 Diffused het Amel
1 / 128 Charcoal het Anery
1 / 64 Normal het Amel, Anery
1 / 128 Diffused het Anery
1 / 128 Amel het Anery
1 / 128 Charcoal het Diffused
1 / 64 Normal het Amel, Diffused
1 / 64 Normal het Amel, Charcoal
1 / 128 Diffused het Charcoal
1 / 128 Amel het Diffused
1 / 128 Amel het Charcoal
1 / 64 Normal het Anery, Diffused
1 / 64 Normal het Anery, Charcoal
1 / 64 Charcoal het Amel, Anery
1 / 64 Diffused het Amel, Anery
1 / 128 Anery het Amel
1 / 64 Normal het Charcoal, Diffused
1 / 64 Charcoal het Amel, Diffused
1 / 64 Diffused het Amel, Charcoal
1 / 64 Charcoal het Anery, Diffused
1 / 64 Diffused het Anery, Charcoal
1 / 64 Amel het Anery, Diffused
1 / 64 Amel het Anery, Charcoal
1 / 128 Anery het Diffused
1 / 128 Anery het Charcoal
1 / 32 Normal het Amel, Anery, Diffused
1 / 32 Normal het Amel, Anery, Charcoal
1 / 64 Amel het Charcoal, Diffused
1 / 32 Normal het Amel, Charcoal, Diffused
1 / 64 Anery het Amel, Diffused
1 / 64 Anery het Amel, Charcoal
1 / 32 Normal het Anery, Charcoal, Diffused
1 / 32 Charcoal het Amel, Anery, Diffused
1 / 32 Diffused het Amel, Anery, Charcoal
1 / 64 Anery het Charcoal, Diffused
1 / 32 Amel het Anery, Charcoal, Diffused
1 / 16 Normal het Amel, Anery, Charcoal, Diffused
1 / 32 Anery het Amel, Charcoal, Diffused
1 / 256 Charcoal, Diffused
1 / 256 Amel, Charcoal
1 / 256 Amel, Diffused
1 / 256 Anery, Charcoal
1 / 256 Anery, Diffused
1 / 256 Amel, Anery
1 / 128 Charcoal, Diffused het Amel
1 / 128 Charcoal, Diffused het Anery
1 / 128 Amel, Charcoal het Anery
1 / 128 Amel, Diffused het Anery
1 / 128 Amel, Charcoal het Diffused
1 / 128 Amel, Diffused het Charcoal
1 / 64 Charcoal, Diffused het Amel, Anery
1 / 128 Anery, Charcoal het Amel
1 / 128 Anery, Diffused het Amel
1 / 64 Amel, Charcoal het Anery, Diffused
1 / 128 Anery, Charcoal het Diffused
1 / 64 Amel, Diffused het Anery, Charcoal
1 / 128 Anery, Diffused het Charcoal
1 / 128 Amel, Anery het Diffused
1 / 128 Amel, Anery het Charcoal
1 / 64 Anery, Charcoal het Amel, Diffused
1 / 64 Anery, Diffused het Amel, Charcoal
1 / 64 Amel, Anery het Charcoal, Diffused
1 / 256 Amel, Charcoal, Diffused
1 / 256 Anery, Charcoal, Diffused
1 / 256 Amel, Anery, Charcoal
1 / 256 Amel, Anery, Diffused
1 / 128 Amel, Charcoal, Diffused het Anery
1 / 128 Anery, Charcoal, Diffused het Amel
1 / 128 Amel, Anery, Charcoal het Diffused
1 / 128 Amel, Anery, Diffused het Charcoal
1 / 256 Amel, Anery, Charcoal, Diffused

 

[Shiari]

An anery x amel will produce normals het anery and amel. Most corn snake morphs are simple recessive; they require 2 genes to be expressed. This means for two animals to produce a specific morph, both parents must have *at least* one copy of the gene.

For example, I have a ghost het amel, and an anery het amel. A ghost has 2 hypo genes and 2 anery genes. She also has one amel gene. The anery has 2 anery genes, no hypo genes, and one amel gene.

Because the offspring get half their DNA from each parent, that means each parents contributes one gene for the morph. The ghost will always give a hypo gene and always give an anery gene. But at the location where amel exists, she has 2 different genes that can go the babies. She can either give a normal gene, or an amel gene. She has a 50/50 chance of providing either gene.

Because the anery also only can give an anery gene, ALL the babies are homozygous for anery. Because the anery does not carry hypo at all, all the babies are only het for hypo and do not display the trait. The anery also has a 50/50 chance of providing an amel gene and so each baby has a 25% chance (0.5 x 0.5) of getting an amel gene from each parent and then being a snow (homozygous anery and amel). The remaining hatchlings have a 66% chance of carrying the amel gene, but you cannot tell which ones do and don't until you breed them.

 

[Caelan]

An anery x amel will produce normals het anery and amel. Most corn snake morphs are simple recessive; they require 2 genes to be expressed. This means for two animals to produce a specific morph, both parents must have *at least* one copy of the gene.

For example, I have a ghost het amel, and an anery het amel. A ghost has 2 hypo genes and 2 anery genes. She also has one amel gene. The anery has 2 anery genes, no hypo genes, and one amel gene.

Because the offspring get half their DNA from each parent, that means each parents contributes one gene for the morph. The ghost will always give a hypo gene and always give an anery gene. But at the location where amel exists, she has 2 different genes that can go the babies. She can either give a normal gene, or an amel gene. She has a 50/50 chance of providing either gene.

Because the anery also only can give an anery gene, ALL the babies are homozygous for anery. Because the anery does not carry hypo at all, all the babies are only het for hypo and do not display the trait. The anery also has a 50/50 chance of providing an amel gene and so each baby has a 25% chance (0.5 x 0.5) of getting an amel gene from each parent and then being a snow (homozygous anery and amel). The remaining hatchlings have a 66% chance of carrying the amel gene, but you cannot tell which ones do and don't until you breed them.

I think I have a better understanding now. So in order to get that four gene corn snake, (amel, anery, charcoal & diffused) I would have to breed the anery pewter to the amel, then all the babies will be 100% het for the four genes - then breed the babies to each other then (if I pick the right babies) their babies have a very slight chance of producing the four gene snake (amel, anery, charcoal & diffused) ???

 

[Shiari]

Yes. The offspring from the first pairing (normals het amel, anery, charcoal diffused) when bred together will give you a very very very small chance of making a quad-gene snake. If you want those 4 genes, you are better off getting a fire or avalanche or whiteout.

Anery pewter to fire gives you all diffused het anery charcoal amel. An avalanche would give you all granites het charcoal amel. A whiteout would give you all pewters het anery, amel.

Those animals would significantly increase the odds of getting a 4-gene snake.

 

[Caelan]

Yes. The offspring from the first pairing (normals het amel, anery, charcoal diffused) when bred together will give you a very very very small chance of making a quad-gene snake. If you want those 4 genes, you are better off getting a fire or avalanche or whiteout.

Anery pewter to fire gives you all diffused het anery charcoal amel. An avalanche would give you all granites het charcoal amel. A whiteout would give you all pewters het anery, amel.

Those animals would significantly increase the odds of getting a 4-gene snake.

Thanks a lot this was very helpful, and thanks for the other morph suggestions! Much appreciated!

 

[dave partington]

Megan, one would still have to raise up the suspected 4-gene snakes and test breed them Anery A and Charcoal to prove out if in fact they are homozygous for both Anery A & Charcoal?

 

[Shiari]

That's why a whiteout or avalanche is best. You know they are homozygous for one of the aneries, and yes would require some testing to figure out which are homozygous for the other.

 

[Guruofchem]

Thanks for this thread - giving me some truly evil ideas to torture my AP Biology kids with...:blowup: