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Gulf of Mexico oil spill disaster...

Yeah BP is paying out some. What you are forgetting is while BP is slowly, and I mean slowly paying out to the people they said they would. There are others that have been waiting so long they have lost their electric (no AC in this heat?) and are facing eviction. These are the same people who years ago had to go through eviction from their homes by mother nature, and now they are facing it again because the BP execs wanted corners cut and safety measures shut down so they could pump oil faster. This could have been avoided but greed got in the way.
 
Well let’s see if I can get out of this with my skin on.

I wouldn’t stand for BP or any company telling me I can’t go to a public beach or any public place unless there were a good reason like it was unsafe due to a massive oil spill or maybe there was a lot of work going on that would be hampered by lots of on lookers. Then I think restricting people in those areas would be entirely reasonable.

I don’t think the local people would be the most competent at cleaning up an oil spill. I don’t think living in Florida has taught anyone anything about how to clean up an oil spill. Having you livelihood destroyed by the oil does not qualify you to clean up the mess. If you worked in the tourist industry or were a fishermen I would think your expertise would be along those lines. I think people who work in the oil industry and have been trained to deal with this mess might be the people I would call before I started looking for fishermen. Doesn’t that make more sense.

I agree that BP should be writing some large checks. I think they are doing that. I think they are and will be spending hundreds of millions of dollars trying to find a solution for this. For that very reason I think they are also searching the world for the best people and techniques to solve the problem. They are looking at this strictly from a financial standpoint and resolving this is probably the number one thing on their mind.

Sadly I think this will be the end of BP. Not sadly because it will bankrupt them but sadly because I think they will run out of money long before the problem is fixed.

So you assert that the govt and BP know better how to keep me safe on the water than I do? You do know that many decision makers from both of those organizations may not have ever had any experience with the ocean before right? I have been part of an ocean going family that goes back for generations heck I have viking ancestors. I will not for one second buy that anyone from the govt or BP knows better than I do how to keep myself safe especially in the Atlantic and gulf, these are my hometown waters.

Besides even if they don't care how much I know about maritime safety and they still insist on closing things down for peoples 'safety', what is their excuse for preventing press access? If they wanted to they could station an embedded reporter on every ship. Then there would be no press reason to complain, because they will have access and know in real time everything because someone will be on every ship. There isn't a single credible reason that a photographer cannot be stationed with every ship but nobody has the desire to be open and honest about what is happening out there.

BP can bring in however many map guys and disaster experts they want but guess what it is our fisherman and divers and boaters who know the real shape and contours of the gulf. Any map can show you a shape it is the fisherman who can tell you where the endangered bird are nesting this year.

A good example of my point about how the people who are in charge don't know squat about the gulf would be the booms. Anyone who has ever seen an ocean before in person can tell you that those booms they have don't work because there are waves. Obviously BP officials have never seen the sea before because apparently they didn't know about the waves there. Then after they wasted all that time/money on booms it was widely reported that oh look they don't work very well because the ocean has (gasp) waves. Plan 2 didn't work do you know why because gosh darn who would have thought it turns out the ocean is cold down there and ice can form. So tell me again how they would be better able to clean up the gulf when to be honest they obviously don't know squat about the gulf. I am not talking about taking waitresses and putting them to work cleaning up the oil out at sea. I am saying find someone who has actually seen an ocean before, preferable find someone who has experience on these specific waters day in and day out. I am not saying they don't want to fix the problem, I am saying they are obviously not competent or able to do so.

As for their checkbook well it isn't enough. They don't have enough just to repay me for my loss. I have been planning for when my girls would be big enough to take diving to see the pillar coral since they were born and in all likelihood the coral will be dead by then. There isn't a check they can write me to make up for that. And there are residents in many other states who also have their own priceless losses. I hope that our local independently owned gas station owners are able to make contracts with better companies and I for one cannot wait for the day that BP is run out of business. Hopefully our states and federal govt will be able to extract every last cent they have first. If they do survive this maybe they can use some of their HUGE profits to buy their CEO an yacht so he can get some experience out on the water for a change. Hopefully then at least someone in the company will be aware of the waves that exist in the ocean.
 
Wade I always intend to disagree without being terribly disagreeable so I hope you don't really feel like any skin is in peril. :)
 
First off I understand that BP has no authority and agree that they should not. If BP is kicking people out of public places I would say they should not be. I would assume that that type of activity would be handled by the police or the National Guard. I have yet to hear that it is any different than that.

Nellie I doubt that a “Map Reader” knows how to float a boat. But what is being done is quite different than that. I hope people trained and experienced in oil containment in the open water is who is doing the actual work. I doubt many fishermen have experience in that kind of activity.

Nobody has enough money to undo what has been done. Life will never be the same again for many many people. BP, the government, and God will not change that.

My skin is intact. It's all good.
 
Maybe the reason BP doesn't want cameras in Louisiana at the coast....

 
This is actually an older video, but maybe some more pieces to the puzzle are embedded in here....

 
First off I understand that BP has no authority and agree that they should not. If BP is kicking people out of public places I would say they should not be. I would assume that that type of activity would be handled by the police or the National Guard. I have yet to hear that it is any different than that.

Well, how about this?

 
It's getting to be pretty tough to find any CURRENT information about this.

BP Official Admits to Damage BENEATH THE SEA FLOOR

“Doomsday” Cover-Up: BP Official Admits to Damage BENEATH THE SEA FLOOR!

Washington’s Blog
June 12, 2010

As I noted Tuesday, there is growing evidence that BP’s oil well – technically called the “well casing” or “well bore” – has suffered damage beneath the level of the sea floor.

The evidence is growing stronger and stronger that there is substantial damage beneath the sea floor. Indeed, it appears that BP officials themselves have admitted to such damage. This has enormous impacts on both the amount of oil leaking into the Gulf, and the prospects for quickly stopping the leak this summer.

On May 31st, the Washington Post noted:
Sources at two companies involved with the well said that BP also discovered new damage inside the well below the seafloor and that, as a result, some of the drilling mud that was successfully forced into the well was going off to the side into rock formations.

“We discovered things that were broken in the sub-surface,” said a BP official who spoke on the condition of anonymity. He said that mud was making it “out to the side, into the formation.”

On June 2nd, Bloomberg pointed out:
Plugging the well is another challenge even after BP successfully intersects it, Robert Bea, a University of California Berkeley engineering professor, said. BP has said it believes the well bore to be damaged, which could hamper efforts to fill it with mud and set a concrete plug, Bea said.

Bea is an expert in offshore drilling and a high-level governmental adviser concerning disasters.

On the same day, the Wall Street Journal noted that there might be a leak in BP’s well casing 1,000 feet beneath the sea floor:
BP PLC has concluded that its “top-kill” attempt last week to seal its broken well in the Gulf of Mexico may have failed due to a malfunctioning disk inside the well about 1,000 feet below the ocean floor.

The broken disk may have prevented the heavy drilling mud injected into the well last week from getting far enough down the well to overcome the pressure from the escaping oil and gas, people familiar with BP’s findings said. They said much of the drilling mud may also have escaped from the well into the rock formation outside the wellbore.

On June 7th, Senator Bill Nelson told MSNBC that he’s investigating reports of oil seeping up from additional leak points on the seafloor:
Senator Bill Nelson (D-FL): Andrea we’re looking into something new right now, that there’s reports of oil that’s seeping up from the seabed… which would indicate, if that’s true, that the well casing itself is actually pierced… underneath the seabed. So, you know, the problems could be just enormous with what we’re facing.

Andrea Mitchell, MSNBC: Now let me understand better what you’re saying. If that is true that it is coming up form that seabed, even the relief well won’t be the final solution to cap this thing. That means that we’ve got oil gushing up at disparate places along the ocean floor.

Sen. Nelson: That is possible, unless you get the plug down low enough, below where the pipe would be breached.

Indeed, loss of integrity in the well itself may explain why BP is drilling its relief wells more than ten thousand feet beneath the leaking pipes on the seafloor (and see this).

Yesterday, recently-retired Shell Oil President John Hofmeister said that the well casing below the sea floor may have been compromised:
[Question] What are the chances that the well casing below the sea floor has been compromised, and that gas and oil are coming up the outside of the well casing, eroding the surrounding soft rock. Could this lead to a catastrophic geological failure, unstoppable even by the relief wells?

John Hofmeister: This is what some people fear has occurred. It is also why the “top kill” process was halted. If the casing is compromised the well is that much more difficult to shut down, including the risk that the relief wells may not be enough. If the relief wells do not result in stopping the flow, the next and drastic step is to implode the well on top of itself, which carries other risks as well.

As noted yesterday in The Engineer magazine, an official from Cameron International – the manufacturer of the blowout preventer for BP’s leaking oil drilling operation – noted that one cause of the failure of the BOP could have been damage to the well bore:
Steel casing or casing hanger could have been ejected from the well and blocked the operation of the rams.
Oil industry expert Rob Cavner believes that the casing might be damaged beneath the sea floor, noting:

The real doomsday scenario here… is if that casing gives up, and it does come through the other strings of pipe. Remember, it is concentric pipe that holds this well together. If it comes into the formation, basically, you‘ve got uncontrolled [oil] flow to the sea floor. And that is the doomsday scenario.

Cavner also said BP must “keep the well flowing to minimize oil and gas going out into the formation on the side”:

And prominent oil industry insider Matt Simmons believes that the well casing may have been destroyed when the oil rig exploded. Simmons was an energy adviser to President George W. Bush, is an adviser to the Oil Depletion Analysis Centre, and is a member of the National Petroleum Council and the Council on Foreign Relations.

We have a right to know what’s really going on.

Given the impact on America’s people, natural resources and economy, BP and the government must fully disclose the amount of damage underneath the sea floor, and what that means for the efforts to cap the well.
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2010/06/evidence-points-to-destruction-beneath.html
 
Nellie I doubt that a “Map Reader” knows how to float a boat. But what is being done is quite different than that. I hope people trained and experienced in oil containment in the open water is who is doing the actual work. I doubt many fishermen have experience in that kind of activity.

Nobody has enough money to undo what has been done. Life will never be the same again for many many people. BP, the government, and God will not change that.

My skin is intact. It's all good.

We agree kind of I think. But I think that your outlook is far to rosy. If you'd like to come down to FL I bet I can find us some public lands to get us kicked off of. How can you have such rosy faith in a company who's daily actions broadcast clearly that they don't actually know how to cope with water?

We both agree that BP would like to stop this problem asap Tony has already said he would like to have his life back.
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2010/06/bp-ceo-like-life-back-video.php
Well Mr CEO I hope you enjoy your life once you fly home in a few months, personaly I cannot wait until he gets his worthless behind out of here. I say don't let the door hit you in the backside on the way out.

I also agree that in theory it would be great to have people experienced with this sort of clean up down here doing the work and more importantly making the decisions regarding what sort of work needs to be done. The problem is that anyone with experience on the water which is just about everyone here in these gulf states are able to see the things that BP is deciding to do, and it is obvious to all of us that they do not know how to work in the open water.

I would also like to hope that people experienced with dealing with oil in open water were the people who were making the decisions and doing the work as well. But all evidence points to that being not the case. The first attempt at containment didn't work because the companies plan/decision makers didn't take into account that there are waves. The second 'fix' you know the container that was supposed to fit over the leak so they could collect the oil and pump it to the surface. Do you know why it didn't work? It didn't work because OMG who would have known it by golly it is cold at the bottom the sea floor. Fix number 3 the dispersant's make a lot of the oil sink and when BP decided to 'help' the problem by releasing all the dispersant's (that cause reproduction issues in animals and humans) it never occurred to them that if the oil doesn't float up to the surface then they actually don't know how to find it under the surface and nobody has any ideas about how to clean it up from under the surface.

BP can't find the oil that is under the surface and that is a perfect example of where they are not using the local people who know this place like the back of their hands. All up and down the coast colleges, NOAA, National Marine Sanctuary, and many state agencies, weather agencies, etc all have awesome research vessels sitting in port right now on the gulf coast. These vessels are designed to study and track water quality and currents. These boats are sitting docked in port all along the gulf and the agencies who run them are trying to get out there to find and track the undercurrent oils. I am not talking about just rubber necking day trippers I am talking about scientists who deal with water quality in the gulf as their profession. When a friend of mine who works at one of the marine science colleges over on the coast offered the research vessel that her dept uses for their projects (at cost for gas and such as the crew was happy to volunteer). BP said to sum it up "No thanks we don't need your services because we don't see any evidence of below surface oil." :shrugs:

I am not asking for magic I do not expect the govt or BP to be able fix things back to the way they were. What has happened has happened all I expect is for the incompetent folks to get out of the way already! I propose a new law. Someone in your company needs to have at least seen an ocean before you are going to be granted a permit to drill on the ocean floor.

So I guess I agree with you in theory? I also think it would be wonderful if experienced open water containment people were the ones containing this problem, but all the evidence suggests that nobody in charge of making any decisions or plans at BP has any idea what so ever about the open water. In fact the way they behave around the ocean makes me wonder if these people have even been in their very own bath tubs.
 
I also agree that in theory it would be great to have people experienced with this sort of clean up down here doing the work and more importantly making the decisions regarding what sort of work needs to be done. The problem is that anyone with experience on the water which is just about everyone here in these gulf states are able to see the things that BP is deciding to do, and it is obvious to all of us that they do not know how to work in the open water. <snippage>

BP can't find the oil that is under the surface and that is a perfect example of where they are not using the local people who know this place like the back of their hands. All up and down the coast colleges, NOAA, National Marine Sanctuary, and many state agencies, weather agencies, etc all have awesome research vessels sitting in port right now on the gulf coast. These vessels are designed to study and track water quality and currents. These boats are sitting docked in port all along the gulf and the agencies who run them are trying to get out there to find and track the undercurrent oils. I am not talking about just rubber necking day trippers I am talking about scientists who deal with water quality in the gulf as their profession. When a friend of mine who works at one of the marine science colleges over on the coast offered the research vessel that her dept uses for their projects (at cost for gas and such as the crew was happy to volunteer). BP said to sum it up "No thanks we don't need your services because we don't see any evidence of below surface oil." :shrugs:

You make a couple of really good points. Seems to me that the people who have been involved in cleaning up other spills, like the Exxon Valdez, might have something to contribute, and people who know the currents, like local watermen & women, might have something to contribute at least in terms of where the oil is going or is going to go, and scientists who study the Gulf might have something to contribute. BP isn't using any of these resources? There's something mighty weird if they aren't.
 
Well, how about this?

I don’t know how I got on this side of the argument, normally it should be reversed.

Rich you’re a smart guy, I don’t see you as an alarmist. What I saw in the video was BP employees being told not to talk to reporters while they were working. I would tell my employees the same thing. I didn’t see any BP soldiers kicking tourists out of public beaches. I didn’t see any road blocks with men in black preventing law abiding Americans from going about their business. I feel like that is what is being implied and I just don’t believe it.


The first attempt at containment didn't work because the companies plan/decision makers didn't take into account that there are waves. The second 'fix' you know the container that was supposed to fit over the leak so they could collect the oil and pump it to the surface. Do you know why it didn't work? It didn't work because OMG who would have known it by golly it is cold at the bottom the sea floor................


Nellie, I shortened your post a lot. I am sure there are some really smart fishermen in the Gulf States. I think there are some really smart people working on the oil as well. I would bet they are all aware that there are waves and cold water in the ocean. I live in Utah and I am aware of that fact. I think the problem is much more complicated than that. I think you and I have no idea how complicated this is going to be to solve.

Fishermen and other people who earn their living on the water know a great deal about that segment of the water that applies to them. BP and other oil companies have spent a lifetime and Billions of dollars learning how to work in the open water and on the bottom of the ocean all over this planet. That is their job. I think they are looking at this from a standpoint that may differ from someone who is expert in the field of the feeding habits of shrimp.


One of the great things about the internet is you can make any statement you like and somebody will argue with you about it. If you don’t read everything twice and speak in one syllable words somebody will take the wrong message from what you have said and tell you that you are wrong. So let me re-explain my position.

No private company has the authority to tell anyone what to do on public land. If they did it would be a simple matter for police or some other government agency to tell them to cease and desist.

I have a lot of faith in the checks and balances of our government. I don’t like our current administration but I don’t believe for one minute that Obama is training a secret army to take the American citizens hostage. I don’t believe Obama is part of a cover up in connection with the BP disaster. It makes no sense for him or anyone else to do this on purpose. It makes no sense to talk about conspiracies.

I believe this will bankrupt BP. I think many very wealthy people will loose everything they have as a result of this. I can think of no reason why they would voluntarily plan to do something of this magnitude. Nobody is going to win here. Everyone even remotely connected to this is going to loose.

I think BP and everyone else involved is working around the clock to find a solution to this. I think if they could hire an army of $20 per hour fishermen to solve the problem they would. I would bet they already have many experienced locals on the payroll.

I think this is a horrible sad event that will effect us all of 100s of years. I think many people will never return to normal. But I don’t believe in ghosts, little green men, or one to point a finger at and blame. I understand sad and angry people wanting to hang someone. I don’t think it will help the current situation.
 
Well, how about this?


I don’t know how I got on this side of the argument, normally it should be reversed.

Rich you’re a smart guy, I don’t see you as an alarmist. What I saw in the video was BP employees being told not to talk to reporters while they were working. I would tell my employees the same thing. I didn’t see any BP soldiers kicking tourists out of public beaches. I didn’t see any road blocks with men in black preventing law abiding Americans from going about their business. I feel like that is what is being implied and I just don’t believe it.





I think there are some really smart people working on the oil as well. I would bet they are all aware that there are waves and cold water in the ocean. I live in Utah and I am aware of that fact. I think the problem is much more complicated than that. I think you and I have no idea how complicated this is going to be to solve.

Fishermen and other people who earn their living on the water know a great deal about that segment of the water that applies to them. BP and other oil companies have spent a lifetime and Billions of dollars learning how to work in the open water and on the bottom of the ocean all over this planet. That is their job. I think they are looking at this from a standpoint that may differ from someone who is expert in the field of the feeding habits of shrimp.


I believe this will bankrupt BP. I think many very wealthy people will loose everything they have as a result of this. I can think of no reason why they would voluntarily plan to do something of this magnitude. Nobody is going to win here. Everyone even remotely connected to this is going to loose.

I think BP and everyone else involved is working around the clock to find a solution to this. I think if they could hire an army of $20 per hour fishermen to solve the problem they would. I would bet they already have many experienced locals on the payroll.

Wade what about at

.25 seconds into the video where the mans says You can be outside of 100 yards of the workers. - I didn't know that on public beaches we are individually entitled to 100 yards of personal space. Up until now I was under the impression the rules where don't touch strangers or their stuff without permission.

or at .40 in when he says "I can tell you where to go...:

That man is a privately hired security officer on a public non closed beach. - So his word means squat yet that doesn't stop him from keeping himself positioned between the reporter and his intended destination in an intentionally obstructive manner. Clearly a power play and an attempt at intimidation.

This is the problem the people who live here and are being effected by these actions see the video and clearly see that the problem is with him being told where he can be and him being harassed by a flock of security people simply for being present. We don't care if those people didn't want to give an interview. Everyone has the right to remain silent, but they also used to have the right to use open beaches without being harassed. There is a long history of this happening to people in the gulf coast. Disasters come through and people abuse their powers all the time and when we complain about it the rest of the country paints us as alarmists. Don't we understand that we are just supposed to shut up and do as we are told when there is a disaster? Don't we know that rights don't apply then? Have you ever heard of the Conch Republic? In the early 80's they set up border patrol at the homestead side of the stretch, forcing Keys residents to pass through border patrol just to go about their business or in my families case to visit family in homestead. And after Katrina all the initial abuses and misinformation do you think that was the first time that has happened? It happened after Andrew just not to the same extreme. Certainly Katrina was hands down a a more graphic/extreme and because of technology a more viewed example but it didn't just sprout up from nowhere it wasn't just an isolated incident nor was it an anomaly. Abuses of power to lesser extents are common after disasters. And most long term residents at least privately are outspoken about how sick of it they are.

As for your bet that they have smart people working for them as well, I would like to agree with you many people are very smart and I try really hard to think the best of people, however their actions during this clean up have shown clearly that they do not know what they are doing. I absolutely agree with you that they did not do this on purpose and they would love to clean up this ASAP but here is the thing. There incompetent actions show clearly to me that they are not able to. I don't care if their smart people run MENSA if they think that you can float long sponges on top of waves to keep oil away from shore in ocean condition, then they are obviously morons. The pictures of them deploying those booms had people who I know shaking their head regarding the potential effectiveness long before it was reported that they weren't working well. I would say ask other gulf coast folks for yourself if what I am saying is true. When everyone around here started seeing the booms being put out we (all us long term locals) all started exchanging knowing glances. We all watched the news coverage hopeful all the while not being able to help but feel the huge pit in our stomachs because logically we all knew it was not really a workable solution.

My issue isn't with hiring local laborers my issue is with them giving local people a say. Our examples of our rights being trampled are being dismissed as us not being understanding of their needs to clean up. Our reports of their obvious incompetence is shushed and everyone is just blindly letting this company who has already proven themselves several times to be screw ups to continue to run the show even when all available evidence shows that they do not know what they are doing and that they are failing miserably. The people of the gulf coast are saying please dear god don't let these screw up touch anything else, how about if we bring in some competent people, and while you are at it could we kindly please have our rights back. And for some reason the gulf folks are the alarmists while the people who are screwing up time and again are still being allowed to run the show. These rights violations are not hypothetical or imagined. I was 2 years old when I had to cross the border to visit my uncle in homestead even though I lived in Monroe county (a part of the US), and he lived in homestead (an adjacent part of the US). I was 10 when Andrew came through, and while I was lucky enough to be spared any personal experiences with Katrina those issues were graphically documented.

On a good note I agree Obama is not breeding a super army of guards to block our access to public beaches. Before I criticize I will say I voted for Obama, we actually stood in line for 2 1/2 hours most of the time in the rain to vote for the man, and no he isn't making an army to keep me off the beach. But what he is doing is sitting in DC twittering his thumbs and deferring to the 'experts' who for some very tragic reason he seems to think is BP. As president he should deploy the coast guard and the national guard and any one else he needs to deploy, but not to help keep citizens out of what is now becoming BP's gulf but rather they need to be deployed to do some real good. Let them kick those mall cop beach security guards rear ends for speaking to a resident like that.
 
Wade, I think what she is trying to say is if it was the police, military, some sort of official saying no you cant be here that would be one thing. But it isnt, its private security saying no you cant be here. And they were even asked who employs them and they would not say (BP anyone?). Now think about the works, they are there being asked for an interview at the end, with the security guard right there spreading his arms to make himself look bigger and tells them they dont have to. If you had to work here every day to help put food on your table would you come out in front of the same guards who are being employed by some mysterious corporation (BP?) and say sure I will do an interview, knowing those guards will get your name and report back then within a day your job will be gone? I wouldnt, not when my family is depending on me for food.
 
Thanks Stormy, I understand what she is saying. Do you understand that those men in the video were employees of some company (BP anyone) and they were being told to not talk to the reporter. If that is company policy then that company security guard is well within his rights to tell them that.

What I am saying is that what everyone is implying is that BP employees are setting up road blocks and telling the public what to do. I have yet to see any evidence of that.

If you are employed by a company that doesn't want you to talk to the media and they have told you that then I would say your job would be contingent on you obeying their wishes. There is nothing sinister or unusual about that policy. My wife works for a bank. She and all the other officers understand they are not to be quoted in the news unless it is approved in advanced. It is not a conspiracy.
 
Yet the media has been given written documentation from BP themselves saying the workers can speak to the media.
Also, private security is usually ex military, ex police etc. You can be sure that if someone tried going across this invisible line to do news coverage and interviews they would know how to stop them without needing a weapon or any other officials.
And no they arent going to do roadblocks, that would make even more of a panic. Instead people see a few security guards milling around on the beach and they dont think about it as much as they would a road block.
 
Nellie I give up. Have it your way.

Sorry, I try not to come across to heavy, but it does get old for long time residents to see people come in from somewhere else to run things only for them to muddle it all up not because of bad intentions or lack of theoretical learning, but because things like hurricanes and oceans need people with real applicable experience to have a say and for some reason people don't seem think that is important or at the very least people seem to greatly minimize the importance of real experience. In high school I worked with a boat towing company. Just like a car towing company but you know for the water. We would see the same attitude all the time people will come down and they will talk real big about how they are experienced "Captains"but then later when they end up calling for a tow you find out oh well they didn't have ocean going experience, but they have been fishing in a small lake for years even in rainy weather so they assumed they were experienced. But it turns out they were totally unprepared for the realities of the ocean. It never occurs to them that some rain is not the same as a FL storm and that a lake does not behave the same way as an ocean does. It is easy to take peoples mistakes in stride when they are paying and tipping you handsomely for saving them and their boats from the middle of the ocean while they are in distress. But I am completely ticked off about it when it is causing mass destruction on a multi state scale with no real end in sight. Anyways I think that is why I feel like I am coming across as so serious and grave and really I try not its just so frustrating sometimes.
 
What I am saying is that what everyone is implying is that BP employees are setting up road blocks and telling the public what to do. I have yet to see any evidence of that.

Wade what about at

.25 seconds into the video where the mans says You can be outside of 100 yards of the workers. - I didn't know that on public beaches we are individually entitled to 100 yards of personal space. Up until now I was under the impression the rules where don't touch strangers or their stuff without permission.

or at .40 in when he says "I can tell you where to go...:

That man is a privately hired security officer on a public non closed beach. - So his word means squat yet that doesn't stop him from keeping himself positioned between the reporter and his intended destination in an intentionally obstructive manner. Clearly a power play and an attempt at intimidation.

Does .25 second in and . 40 seconds in not address this? Does the block have to be on the roadway in order to be considered a block? Does the person they are attempting to block have to comply with their wishes and be blocked before it counts as blocking? That private security guard employed by unknown is very clearly telling that reporter where he can and cannot be on public land. If that doesn't count as blocking then what exactly would count as evidence?
 
Did you hear about the oil spill in Salt Lake City, UT this week? A major pipe pumping crude from Colorado to a Utah refinery broke. The crude made its way to the Jordan River and was headed for the Great Salt Lake. It was a mess. Chevron hired truck drivers who knew the streets in the area and farmers who know the soil conditions. They hired some restaurant workers from down the street. A local janitorial service helped in the clean up.

There was a little bit about it on the news but the Obama Army for the Suppression of Liberty would not allow anyone in for pictures. This is all hard core fact. I talked to a guy who ran the Quick Mart (Ackmed) and he saw the men carrying assault weapons arrest some people who were trying to see what was going on.

More at Ten.
 
Does that mean it is safe to assume that you do not consider 25 seconds and 40 seconds into the clip to be a good example of the claims being made which is that private security people are harassing people for going about their business on public non closed lands? Are you comparing your quick Mart Ackmed nonsense to the video showing a private security officer telling someone where they can and cannot be on public land which he does not have any authority over? He isn't hired by the county or state or federal govt to be security at the beach. He is hired by a mystery employer that he refuses to identify even to police officials (1 min 58 seconds on the video). The states have not given over control of their public lands to BP, and yet there is a private security guard on the beach ordering people around like he has authority he even claims to have authority when the reporter presses and points out that he is in the private sector with no standing. This isn't some crazy conspiracy theory there is the video of it happening.
 
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