Gulf of Mexico oil spill disaster...

[Dinah]

I just got this article forwarded to me from some friends in the Keys. Some key info to share
"according to BP's numbers, only a third of the 7,200 boats "under contract" through the program are in active service. (paragrpah 4)"

"The Coast Guard's big party line is that until oil is imminent - within 72 hours - nothing is going to be done(paragraph 5)."

Of course the part that makes me the most proud of my home town is the last paragraph.

" If oil comes to the Keys, residents warn, BP had better be ready to work with them. "I just talked with BP yesterday," says Rice. "I told them flat out, 'If you come down here and start doing what you've done in Louisiana, you're going to have a revolt. They'll shut down U.S. 1. You won't be able to bring any of your contractors in or out.' " Key West's isolation may not protect it from the coming oil, but perhaps its independent streak will."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/201006...uYXRlX3N1bW1hcnlfbGlzdARzbGsDYnJhY2luZ2ZvcnNw

 

[Jim Godfrey]

Hooray for the Conchs! Wish I could go down and rub shoulders with them.

 

[wstphal]

Nellie, does the USCG explain why they won't act until the oil is 72h away? And has anyone from the government explained WHY sand berms were said to be a bad idea?

 

[Dinah]

I do not know what the USCG is saying to Mr. Rice he isn't who I know. I know a lot of people in the keys but none of the are USCG most of (although I'm sure not all) the coast guard down there live in Miami near their sector base. I got the article from one of the boat captains who is signing up for the hasmat class so that way he will already have the certificate he needs well in advance. That is one of the things that has everyone so up in arms the class is 20 hours long and BP et al wont pay for them to be trained in advance even though predictions say it is going that way no matter what we do at this point. So they will pay for the classes but only after the oil arrives. That is why the people down there set up the discount themselves. They are way to worried to wait. When the oil arrives they want to be ready they don't want to have to start taking the classes then.

 

[wstphal]

Thanks Nellie. Can we see the whole article? I don't mean for you to type it, but if there's a link... I would REALLY like to know why the USCG says not to do anything until the oil is almost there. I kinda sorta understand why BP doesn't want to pay for hazmat classes. Only kinda sorta, but what I can figure is that they don't want for truckers to get their hazmat cert when they have NO intention of cleaning up any oil. Some people ARE scam artists and would do something like that if BP paid in advance for hazmat classes. Seems to me, though, that if you are a boat captain or crew & can prove it, BP SHOULD pay in advance for hazmat training! That would keep out scammers while still be much more fair to local watermen & women who are going to work the cleanup.

 

[Stormy]

She had posted the link but here it is again. Interesting read.
Florida Keys Residents Plan Their Own Oil Spill Cleanup

 

[Dinah]

Thanks Nellie. Can we see the whole article? I don't mean for you to type it, but if there's a link... I would REALLY like to know why the USCG says not to do anything until the oil is almost there. I kinda sorta understand why BP doesn't want to pay for hazmat classes. Only kinda sorta, but what I can figure is that they don't want for truckers to get their hazmat cert when they have NO intention of cleaning up any oil. Some people ARE scam artists and would do something like that if BP paid in advance for hazmat classes. Seems to me, though, that if you are a boat captain or crew & can prove it, BP SHOULD pay in advance for hazmat training! That would keep out scammers while still be much more fair to local watermen & women who are going to work the cleanup.

The article link was already reposted but here is some additional info regarding the class http://www.osha.gov/html/faq-hazwoper.html I don't know anything about hasmat certifications personally but it looks like this is a hazardous waste clean up certification not a general type of certification. Maybe someone else here knows more about hasmat stuff than I do.

 

[wstphal]

Oops, my bad Nellie! I didn't even see the link the first time you posted it! Sorry.

 

[Rich Z]

I don’t know how I got on this side of the argument, normally it should be reversed.

Rich you’re a smart guy, I don’t see you as an alarmist. What I saw in the video was BP employees being told not to talk to reporters while they were working. I would tell my employees the same thing. I didn’t see any BP soldiers kicking tourists out of public beaches. I didn’t see any road blocks with men in black preventing law abiding Americans from going about their business. I feel like that is what is being implied and I just don’t believe it.

Hmm, did you even LOOK at that video?

Are you telling me that you didn't notice that "security guard" try like hell to keep that reporter off of a section of public beach? Just because there may be workers working on part of it does not make it their exclusive domain from which they can exclude the public just on their say so. Those guards have no legal right whatsoever to tell ANYONE outside of the employee of whomever is paying those workers what they can or cannot do on a public beach, INCLUDING talking to those workers. Yes, they CAN tell those workers not to answer, but that cannot LEGALLY block anyone from asking them.

 

[wade]

Yes Rich I did look at the video. Does it say in the video that it is in fact a public beach or do we just know what the reporter said? Did the reporter ignore him and walk over to the employees anyway? Have all of your employees always done everything exactly right? Does it make a better story if it appears as though BP employees are trying to restrict people on a public beach? Is there any other possible explanation or is this the smoking gun when it comes to the conspiracy theory?

I'm just trying to sort the facts from the rumors before I except the fact that the country is being over run by power hungry oil people from England. I am trying to be reasonable and not jump to conclusions. Apparently I am the only voice of reason.

 

[wade]

Rich, lets take a different angle. Lets assume you are correct. Lets assume that British Petroleum Security is restricting the American Public from going where they chose on public beaches. Lets assume that British Petroleum is so powerful that it has coerced the FAA to restrict air traffic over the oil itself and much of the Gulf. Just for the sake of argument lets say that all of the stuff in the You Tube videos is true.

When the Washington Post printed the Watergate Story they brought down Richard Nixon. They destroyed his presidency and most of those who worked with him. When Jerry Ford stumbled on the stairs of Airforce One, every paper in the world published pictures of it. When George W Bush said nucler every paper and news reporter on the planet made fun of it. When Obama suggested that Rush Limbaugh should be silenced the media laughed and the public was shocked.

What you are asking me to believe is that British Petroleum is so powerful that even CNN is not talking about it. The Militant Right Wing Militia in Louisiana has not rallied to regain control of American Soil. The citizens of Louisiana are so scared of British Petroleum that there has been no public out cry, no rioting in the streets. There has not been one nationally syndicated news network brave enough to whisper, ‘We are now 500 yards from the British Petroleum front lines, In the distance you can see the security patrol.”

You seem to believe that the fact the only reports you can find are on You Tube as suspicious of wrong doing. I believe the reason you cannot find reputable reporters reporting is because there is no story.

Hollywood screen writers who cannot make the grade become news casters. If there were a glimmer of truth to this, they would be there.

 

[Rich Z]

Rich, lets take a different angle. Lets assume you are correct. Lets assume that British Petroleum Security is restricting the American Public from going where they chose on public beaches. Lets assume that British Petroleum is so powerful that it has coerced the FAA to restrict air traffic over the oil itself and much of the Gulf. Just for the sake of argument lets say that all of the stuff in the You Tube videos is true.

When the Washington Post printed the Watergate Story they brought down Richard Nixon. They destroyed his presidency and most of those who worked with him. When Jerry Ford stumbled on the stairs of Airforce One, every paper in the world published pictures of it. When George W Bush said nucler every paper and news reporter on the planet made fun of it. When Obama suggested that Rush Limbaugh should be silenced the media laughed and the public was shocked.

What you are asking me to believe is that British Petroleum is so powerful that even CNN is not talking about it. The Militant Right Wing Militia in Louisiana has not rallied to regain control of American Soil. The citizens of Louisiana are so scared of British Petroleum that there has been no public out cry, no rioting in the streets. There has not been one nationally syndicated news network brave enough to whisper, ‘We are now 500 yards from the British Petroleum front lines, In the distance you can see the security patrol.”

You seem to believe that the fact the only reports you can find are on You Tube as suspicious of wrong doing. I believe the reason you cannot find reputable reporters reporting is because there is no story.

Hollywood screen writers who cannot make the grade become news casters. If there were a glimmer of truth to this, they would be there.

The videos tell what they tell. Seriously, are you watching the same video that I am? When the video cuts to the two guys on the beach, tell me what are the words that the guy on the left SAYS to that reporter?

"No story"? Seriously? This huge amount of oil gushing into the Gulf of Mexico is "no story"? Oil moving into the wetlands of the Gulf Coast is "no story"?

So what exactly IS on the front pages of the newspapers and in other forms of media that the major news media utilizes? What exactly IS more newsworthy, in their eyes, than this event, pray tell?

 

[wade]

Oh absolutely the oil gushing is the story. This is a tragedy of biblical proportions. I don't doubt that for a second. This is something we may never recover from.

I am not convinced of the abuses of power that have have been attributed to Bp. I don't believe that BP is controlling the media or the government.

I am sickened by what has and is about to happen to the Gulf Coast and probably the East Coast.

 

[Dinah]

I don't believe that BP is controlling the media or the government.

Here is the thing lets take all of the theories and forget about them lets focus on just the narrow picture. Those specific security officers did attempt to block that specific reporters access. And lets say for a second that is the only time ever that it happened. Well in this country where freedom of the press is theoretically sacred the fact that it happened even once is totally outrageous, unacceptable, and worthy of some heads rolling for isn't it? I personally am a big fan of the stocks for incidents that are isolated in nature (after a fair trial of course), but sadly nobody ever asks me. It might be all of the political/historical documents that I have had to read for my classes that makes me feel this way or it could be the persnickety Irish women in me. But to me for this to happen even once is an extremely grave situation....It could also be that as a life time resident I know this isn't the first time that incidents have happened both during this issue and during previous emergencies so I could also just be way past tired of this nonsense already. I am opposed to constitution trampling secrecy in all its forms. I was opposed to the Bush administrations secrecy and I am opposed to BP's and the the current administrations secrecy as well (whether the current or past administrations are implicit in their acceptance or simply too complacent in the matter makes little difference to me).

And of course the blocking of press while a hugely unacceptable thing to do isn't even the worst thing they have done.

The worst thing is that for the last 8 weeks now we have had tens of thousands of barrels per day(which is well over a million gallons per day) flowing into the gulf water (even if you base the calculations on conservative numbers). It was over a million gallons yesterday over a million gallons last Tuesday and unless a miracle happens it will be another million plus gallons tomorrow and it will be another million each and every day next week. They hope to have a relief well dug by the end of the summer or early fall depending on how fast drilling goes. So that is right about a million gallons per day until August sometime. That is of course assuming they don't break anything else while they are at it. And assuming that their work isn't interrupted or put off schedule because it is also hurricane season for the gulf right now.

They are spilling these millions of gallons daily into irreplaceable and easily damaged fisheries and ecosystems. These areas are filled with threatened and endangered species. The people who live here have livelihoods that depend on these waters. Even businesses and professions that seem to have nothing to do with tourism/fishing/environmental issues are effected by what happens in the gulf. An entire section of this countries way of life is in danger of being destroyed right now as we speak. And please don't even get me started about the Keys and the reefs. I don't know what is going to happen to Pulley Ridge (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulley_Ridge) if all of that submerged oil filled with dispersant's ends up there.

 

[Rich Z]

The biggest question on my mind right now is where is the "canary in the mine" that I need to be paying attention to so I know when to get Connie and I the hell out of dodge? If people are being blocked from viewing the disaster personally, then that pretty strongly implies that there is something someone feels needs to be hidden from the public taking place. Has this sort of thing EVER happened at an oil spill before?

Heck, I spent some time looking over images of other oil spills and the thing that is a glaring difference to me, is why is the "oil" in this spill red colored? Has anyone actually done a chemical analysis of this "oil" to see what is actually going on?

Anyone else getting the feeling that humanity may have made a very grave mistake that can't be fixed?

 

[tsst]

2012 precursor?

 

[Outcast]

2012 precursor?

Da Da Daaaaa....

Couldn't resist. I personally think that the whole 2012 thing is just because they figured they would be gone by then, so they stopped putting down days...

On another note.
I would like to know why that oil is red also... would that red stuff be the dispersants?

 

[Dinah]

Well Rich if you are retired and don't need to reproduce any more for your lifetime then I think you will be fine here. While I already have all the kids I plan to have I am very concerned about the dispersant somehow making it into the aquifer. I have two kids who might want to have babies one day and we drink well water.

Employment and other economic conditions are probably going to be the biggest issues (just in my opinion). But if you are retired you don't need to be employed then you should be fine. Here is what I do know there are between 1.5 and 5 million visitors to the Keys every year depending on who's doing the counting. None of them are interested in visiting the Keys to swim in the lovely swimming pools. So I would bet that in addition to the people who's jobs are ruined directly because of the oil and tourism fallout other jobs effected will be in public works. How are local and state government supposed to pay for roads, police, and teachers? Are they going to tax the unemployed locals or the tourists who aren't going to come for the pools alone?

There is also the nasty little issue of endangered species. I would bet that at least a few endangered species will be lost forever. I understand the Pelicans can be surly at times but they certainly don't deserve to nest in oil filth. I can't figure out how people keep pledging to restore the gulf to better than it was before when extinction is you know typically permanent. I assume that like waves the smarty pants oil people don't understand extinction either.

Of course all us Gulf coast folks need to remember we are stuck here now. If someone decides they want to sell their business and/or home to facilitate a move out of what is now becoming the gulf cesspit well tough because nobody is going to be showing up to buy you out. Even when the rest of the countries economy recovers do you think anyone is going to want to move down to the gulf coast any time soon?

 

[wade]

I would like to add something to this conversation but I can't dream up and worse scenarios than you guys already have. I don't know the solution so all I can do is wait and see what actually happens. Dreaming of all the bad things that might happen gives me gas.

 

[tsst]

I am kind of split on the BP control thing. I have NO doubt a large corporation would like to hide everything it can. I have little doubt it would try everything in its means to hide it like putting the rent a cops on the beach. But I have doubts that their power goes so far as to control the press. If that is actually happening the gov is probably the one behind it not BP. Just my opinion.