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HATCHLING THREAD (VOL. 3) 2014-2015 Edition

Here we go again :(

What the heck is this? This is from the same clutch I hatched the "Ghost" looking snake with the orange coming in. I held on to two that look like this one. I thought they were Aneries, but something really didn't look right with them, so I figured I better have a closer look after they shed. Well the first one shed and wouldn't you know there is orange coming in!! It looks kinda pink in the photo but that is ORANGE! Remember the clutch was from Classics Het Striped Peppermint Anery Hypo. The grandparents are not my animals and they were Striped Amel X Cinder. Of course we know now one or the other had the hidden Hets Anery, Hypo....so on.
 

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The "Mystery" Corn clutch has been going through their first shed skins and now I'm wondering if it isn't Redcoat affecting the color?? The Striped Ghost I hatched in the clutch early on has also shed and colored up significantly!!
 

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steve roylance said:
The "Mystery" Corn clutch has been going through their first shed skins and now I'm wondering if it isn't Redcoat affecting the color?? The Striped Ghost I hatched in the clutch early on has also shed and colored up significantly!!
Click to expand...

Hope you figure it out Steve....it's very interesting for sure.

Those first two pics. look like what I would think a Ghost Kastanie would look as a hatchling.
I know you mentioned the genes invloved and Katstanie isn't one of them, but ya never know these days :shrugs:

Walter
:crazy02:BOUT' CORNS !!
 
Awesome hatchlings!!

I bet the mystery animal is one of those 'late developers'! I hatched one of these a few years ago and it got its red pigment later from shed to shed. That one looked exactly like your mystery animal and got the same amount of red on its laterals after first shed. If this one would be an amel it would hatch like a snow and turn out to be a regular amel a few sheds later.

Since Frank Schaub hatched some ghost kastanies last year, I'm pretty sure this one is no kastanie. Unfortunately Anery masks kastanie, so a ghost kastanie looks identical to a regular ghost. That combination was kind of a bummer...
 
Walter Smith said:
Hope you figure it out Steve....it's very interesting for sure.

Those first two pics. look like what I would think a Ghost Kastanie would look as a hatchling.
I know you mentioned the genes invloved and Katstanie isn't one of them, but ya never know these days :shrugs:

Walter
:crazy02:BOUT' CORNS !!
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Thanks Walt!!
JimGERcream said:
Awesome hatchlings!!

I bet the mystery animal is one of those 'late developers'! I hatched one of these a few years ago and it got its red pigment later from shed to shed. That one looked exactly like your mystery animal and got the same amount of red on its laterals after first shed. If this one would be an amel it would hatch like a snow and turn out to be a regular amel a few sheds later.

Since Frank Schaub hatched some ghost kastanies last year, I'm pretty sure this one is no kastanie. Unfortunately Anery masks kastanie, so a ghost kastanie looks identical to a regular ghost. That combination was kind of a bummer...
Click to expand...

What you are describing as "Snows" that transform into Amels (with Red), is what we now call Sunrise :)

I agree that if it is a Ghost, then it probably isn't Kastanie as well, but.....what if this isn't an Anery?? I actually do have a "Snow" looking animal from this clutch too! Check it out!!
 

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JimGERcream said:
Very nice comparison pic!

I've posted my late developer, so you can compare them too.

---> http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=138775


One question: Are those Sunrise corns a linebred lineage or is it inheritable when you cross different lineages into the original one? I know Sunrise but here in Europe they are not really in demand.
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Thank you! And nice animal!! Too bad you sold it.

I believe it's a recessive gene, as Don has them floating around in some of his Amels. I did many project crosses last year, so next season we will find out even more.
 
I believe it's a recessive gene, as Don has them floating around in some of his Amels. I did many project crosses last year, so next season we will find out even more.
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You proved that sunrise is either allelic to or the same mutation as kastanie, right?
 
Thanks, I found the thread now. The textbook term for the cross you did with the kastanie het amel diffused and the sunrise is "complementation test." Before DNA sequencing, it was the gold standard for testing whether different mutations are in the same gene.

There is a way to distinguish whether they are two different mutations in the same gene (allelic) or whether they are the same mutation, but I'm sure you've already thought of it. A gene can be recessive to wildtype but dominant over its other alleles. If we just assumed that kastanie and sunrise were allelic but not the same exact mutation, since you got babies that looked like mandarins from that cross, it would suggest that kastanie is recessive to wildtype but dominant over sunrise. So if you bred two of those mandarins together you would expect 3/4 of the hatchlings to look mandarin and 1/4 to look sunrise. But of course if the differences between mandarins and sunrise are due to line breeding or the different localities then that would complicate the interpretation. But it'd still be a cool "experiment."

My bet is that they are the same mutation and all of the offspring will look like mandarins, or that there will be a continuum of phenotypes.
 
DuxorW said:
Thanks, I found the thread now. The textbook term for the cross you did with the kastanie het amel diffused and the sunrise is "complementation test." Before DNA sequencing, it was the gold standard for testing whether different mutations are in the same gene.

There is a way to distinguish whether they are two different mutations in the same gene (allelic) or whether they are the same mutation, but I'm sure you've already thought of it. A gene can be recessive to wildtype but dominant over its other alleles. If we just assumed that kastanie and sunrise were allelic but not the same exact mutation, since you got babies that looked like mandarins from that cross, it would suggest that kastanie is recessive to wildtype but dominant over sunrise. So if you bred two of those mandarins together you would expect 3/4 of the hatchlings to look mandarin and 1/4 to look sunrise. But of course if the differences between mandarins and sunrise are due to line breeding or the different localities then that would complicate the interpretation. But it'd still be a cool "experiment."

My bet is that they are the same mutation and all of the offspring will look like mandarins, or that there will be a continuum of phenotypes.
Click to expand...

Thank you! Definitely gonna do some more with these guys. I did the same breeding again this season.

Due to needing more room for other projects, and waiting on my new Hatchling /Incubation room to be finished, I unfortunately was unable to keep those babies and someone else has the "project animals", but I believe they said that they are looking more like Sunrise than Kastanie now. Since I have more babies coming this season from the same breeding I'm holding on to them. This season I bred the same Kastanie X what is said to be a Christmas Hypo Mahogany. I have a feeling we'll see the same results. I'll post the results of that breeding here when the time comes.
 
Cool. When you say they are looking more like sunrise than kastanie, do you mean that those mandarin-looking hatchlings grew to look more like sunrise than mandarin?
 
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