heat mat temps

[cornyjo]

first feed at home

Ok so it's Sunday and our little dude going to have his first feed with us tonight ,I'm so nervous about it and really hope it's successful.We have decided to feed him in viv in the hope it reduces any stress ,any advice before greatly appreciated .His records show (left in ) for every feed which dissent really help as no other details .We will feed him about 7 pm when kiddies in bed and its all quiet and calm so still got another 5 hours of advice time lol hopefully if he feeds well we can get a hold in about 48 hrs - right ??? X
hr

 

[crzymom2grl2by]

Sounds like you have the right idea. Yes on waiting to hold after for 48hrs. Good luck to you, don't forget to weigh it first and try to keep a growth chart, I weigh mine every time they eat first and keep track so I can see how they're doing. I just made an excel spread sheet for them, works great. I also will keep track of sheds on there.

 

[cornyjo]

weight

It seems my digital scales are just not accurate enough ,so will buy new set today . We put the punky in last night wiggled it about in front of "no name as yet " and he didn't move obviously too scared so we lay punky on a bit of kitchen roll ( white no colour) and hid lol after about 10 minutes out he came grabbed punky in mouth and disappeared to the plant area so we couldn't see a thing!!!! We did see him about 15 minutes later going into hot hide but just not 100 percent if pinky been eaten ??? Don't want to disturb in case he not eaten yet so going to wait till morning and check my concern now is we heated pinky in warm water and I'm worried he will be smelly in morning if not eaten .Because all his notes say left in I thought best to leave it. Surely it's a good sign he grabbed mouse and bolted??? X

 

[smigon]

Smigon your advice is brilliant ,I feel more confident already .I will attempt a feed on Sunday which will be 5 days since he arrived, in or out viv was another question of mine for feeding I have read snake (still no name as yet )can become snappy if that's a good term if u feed direct in viv therefore was thinking feeding box may be better for us? Jordan my son (14 this month) said he came out his hot hide yesterday and went to front of viv and opened his mouth mega wide before disappearing back inside we debated whether he was yawning or searching for food ?????

Yep, just a yawn!

 

[smigon]

Smigon your advice is brilliant ,I feel more confident already .I will attempt a feed on Sunday which will be 5 days since he arrived, in or out viv was another question of mine for feeding I have read snake (still no name as yet )can become snappy if that's a good term if u feed direct in viv therefore was thinking feeding box may be better for us? Jordan my son (14 this month) said he came out his hot hide yesterday and went to front of viv and opened his mouth mega wide before disappearing back inside we debated whether he was yawning or searching for food ?????

Yep, just a yawn!

And as for being "snappy", keep picking him up, he will chill out pretty quickly. All he sees is a big, mean, ogre standing over him trying to get him out. I would be scared too! Once he trusts you, he will change his mind and most likely be very docile. I think most babies come out ready to charge the world, but are frightened by all the activity.

Again, it is up to you to show no fear, and he will trust you soon enough.

 

[cornyjo]

Theo regurge !!!! worried dot com xxx

Please someone ,anyone give me some advice .Theo hatched in Aug 14 we got him on 31st dec14 .He has settled well although still quite flighty during handling sessions.Anyway last night (Wed) was feed night so this was the 12th pinkie he has had since living with us (2 a week one Wed one Sun) .Theo didn't strike for punky but the he never really has !!He has taken it from tongs on a few occasions but seems to like it being left on kitchen roll .So this is how it went last night.Theo took pinkie within 10 minutes about norm for him. Nearly 24hrs later we have just found pinkie lying next to water bowl!!!!!I must add when no took pinkie out he said it had hair!!!I looked and agree it had certainly started growing hair but not much so I assumed this was ok !!! We asked for pinkie in pet shop surely this was ok or is this the problem ????? Where do I go from here ???should I miss a feed or carry on Sunday as normal ?? I'm so gutted everything seemed to be going so well . Temps are perfect ,hides on both sides and plenty coverage . Another query Theo has yet to shed since we got him unfortunately the pet shop only had feeding records and not shedding !!! Shocking I know I did give them my opinion on this please give me some advice Theo is like part of the family now we are all worried sick thank you in advance Kim x

 

[Bullelk]

2 months without shedding a isn't horrible from what I've read.

I'm interested in the advice others give you. I'm sure they will soon. I'm sorry your snake is having problems.

Any reason that you didn't start a new thread? It might have been more organized.

 

[cornyjo]

im a dafty

Please someone ,anyone give me some advice .Theo hatched in Aug 14 we got him on 31st dec14 .He has settled well although still quite flighty during handling sessions.Anyway last night (Wed) was feed night so this was the 12th pinkie he has had since living with us (2 a week one Wed one Sun) .Theo didn't strike for punky but the he never really has !!He has taken it from tongs on a few occasions but seems to like it being left on kitchen roll .So this is how it went last night.Theo took pinkie within 10 minutes about norm for him. Nearly 24hrs later we have just found pinkie lying next to water bowl!!!!!I must add when no took pinkie out he said it had hair!!!I looked and agree it had certainly started growing hair but not much so I assumed this was ok !!! We asked for pinkie in pet shop surely this was ok or is this the problem ????? Where do I go from here ???should I miss a feed or carry on Sunday as normal ?? I'm so gutted everything seemed to be going so well . Temps are perfect ,hides on both sides and plenty coverage . Another query Theo has yet to shed since we got him unfortunately the pet shop only had feeding records and not shedding !!! Shocking I know I did give them my opinion on this please give me some advice Theo is like part of the family now we are all worried sick thank you in advance Kim x

I can't remember how to add a new thread!!!! Dont laugh

 

[Bullelk]

I'm not laughing... It's actually kinda sad... Good luck...

 

[smigon]

I'm not laughing... It's actually kinda sad... Good luck...

What is sad?

 

[smigon]

Kim, I would treat this as a regurgitation and follow Kathy Love's protocol on regurge recovery. Regurges are really bad, especially for little guys, so I am adding how to treat it below.

Once you are done with the treatment, I would only feed every 5-6 days, 3-4 is too close together and I think that is what caused the regurge. Always make sure he poops before you feed again, it is better for him to be really hungry than just having something in front of him to eat.

Kathy Love's Regurge Protocol

THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT - once a snake has regurged, especially twice or more, it is more likely to keep on regurging until it dies, unless something is changed about its care and feeding. It is very important NOT to let this continue. PLEASE FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS BELOW VERY CAREFULLY. This is from my FAQ on regurges:

I suspect your problem is probably not bad mice, but about handling too soon, feeding too soon or too large of a meal, a stomach "bug", or improper temps. If you make these mistakes once, or even twice, it is not usually a problem if you FOLLOW MY INSTRUCTIONS EXACTLY. But remember, each time it regurges, the stomach acids are depleted, and the whole electrolyte balance is thrown off more and more each time, and it makes it MORE likely that it will continue to throw up until it dies. (those consequences are just my opinions - I do not know if science backs up my conclusions, but my experience certainly does!) That is why it is so important to NOT ALLOW another regurge.

The next month or two is crucial. DO NOT feed it for AT LEAST 8 days since the last regurge. NOT ANYTHING AT ALL! Then get a newborn frozen pinky and cut it in half (or cut off just the head) If she eats it, leave her alone for a whole week. (no handling). Repeat the partial pinkie feeding the following week. Then feed a whole newborn pinkie a week after that, if there has been no regurge. Leave alone for a whole week. If she regurges, wait a week and repeat 1/2 pinkie. If she keeps it down, wait a week and repeat whole pinkie. If she holds down a couple of meals, DO NOT rush back into larger meals and more handling. Treat this seriously. Go very slowly. After 3 successful meals, go to a newborn pink every 5 days. Go back to normal feedings only after 6 successful meals. Always wait to handle until after 3 or 4 days, but only AFTER 6 successful meals. No handling until then (causes stress, need to keep stress down). And NEVER feed again right after a regurge - ALWAYS wait AT LEAST 7 or 8 days, maybe even up to 10 days, and then only feed something that was about 1/2 the size (or less) of what she regurged..

Also, be sure that temps are not too warm or cool. Try to give an area of low to mid 80s on one side and 70s on the other. Too hot or cold will cause regurges.

Grapefruit seed extract can sometimes help if the snake has some sort of "stomach bug" (any microbial problem) as it is a natural remedy that is good against many kinds of pathogens, but not as strong as an antibiotic prescribed by a doctor. This product has been used in agriculture for many years and seems to be very safe, as long as you dilute it with enough water that the acidity does not burn the tissues. A vet has told me he feels that it may somewhat alter the pH of the animal and thus change the way medicines are absorbed. So if you use this product and then take the snake to a vet, mention the treatment so it can be taken into account if the vet decides to change the prescription because of it. It is best to mix it in a glass and taste it to make sure it is not so bitter that the snake refuses to drink it. I have used it on myself and so has my husband. I find it works better on stomach problems than for other symptoms (such as respiratory - I didn't have any luck treating colds or other respiratory problems).You can buy it at a local health food store or online. Please refer to the following website for more background info: http://www.nutriteam.com/index2.html

I have also had success with a probiotic called Nutri Bac, a fine powder containing seven different microflora that should be inhabiting the gut of reptiles, but may be absent due to stress, disease, antibiotic treatments, etc. Using the powder as a supplement will sometimes allow the reptile to get back the natural balance of microbes in its digestive tract, and then its own immune system can take over. See my website for more details, or go here:
http://www.cornutopia.com/Corn Ut...information.htm

The number of days and amounts of food, etc, suggested above are not set in stone. Other people may have success with slightly different formulas, but this is what I found works for me and many of my customers. If this protocol does not work when carefully followed, it is likely that the snake has some severe problems. Your only hope is a QUALIFIED herp vet, who may or may not be able to save your pet.

Please follow my care sheet for the first month or so when starting with new acquisitions (posted on my website for the first month's care of new corns).. The first month is crucial in getting the baby established. It is worth a little extra "coddling" for the first month in order to have a trouble free pet for the next 10 or 15 years or more.

Good luck!
Kathy Love

 

[cornyjo]

sad?

I thought the same Smigon but decided to assume it was Theos health that was being referred to as if it was my capabilities navigating round the forum (with me being new to it) that's not the kind of person I need advice from . Would make that person quite sad as opposed to me but says more about their character than mine . I'm still finding my way about here but am very grateful to all the members than genuinely just want to help . Theo our little guy has us all worried he looks ok in himself but we are going to get him to the vet on Monday I've had a few messages saying I may be jumping the gum but do you know I think that's ok .It will be a good opportunity for the vet to meet Theo and give him a full MOT and then I won't stress as much about him ,he is still small ? But I've read of smaller at his age . Ill get you updated xx meant to ask regurge was Thu when can jo hold him again ? Surely if nothing in tummy it's ok or is it best to let him recover frustrated not knowing Kim x

 

[cornyjo]

great

Sorry missed your second post there ok I will follow these steps religiously .I'm sure temps are ok that's one thing I'm confident of I sat recording them all day yesterday just to be sure nothing happening I'm not aware of but they are perfect ? Poor jo having to cut head of mouse !!ill not spectate that bit haha sorry to ask such daft questions but if we have to leave him that long does that mean no deep clean of vivid and just poop scoops? Terrified cause more problems trying to get him better x

 

[smigon]

I thought the same Smigon but decided to assume it was Theos health that was being referred to as if it was my capabilities navigating round the forum (with me being new to it) that's not the kind of person I need advice from . Would make that person quite sad as opposed to me but says more about their character than mine .

I agree, I think that Dominic's (Bull Elk) comment was regarding the snake's situation, not your ability to navigate a new website. He has made several comments on other threads and I think he is a really nice guy, the comment just came out wrong. THAT would be sad, making disparaging comments to someone like that. I am going to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Poor jo having to cut head of mouse !!ill not spectate that bit haha sorry to ask such daft questions but if we have to leave him that long does that mean no deep clean of vivid and just poop scoops? Terrified cause more problems trying to get him better x

Actually, cutting the head off is nothing. I thought I would be traumatized and that brains would blow out all over, but I thaw the pinky and then snip the head off with scissors. No blood, no gore, just don't look at it like it was a baby mouse. When you have to cut lengthwise it gets a little gooey, but still nothing bad. Like I said, I use good, sharp scissors and it gits 'er dun.

In case I didn't tell you, I am going through my first regurge too! I did have a few newborn corns that I had to force feed (it never worked out) so I did a lot of cutting then. Last night I fed Duff her first meal since the regurge (too big a mouse, and I knew it when I fed her, which makes me feel awful for not going with my gut feeling) and cut off a pinky head, rolled it in NutriBac and held her and the head and she scarfed it down. She is 70g so it isn't like she is a baby, but I still want to be careful. Last Sunday I was with her in the quarantine room with another corn I got at the same time and I started out by just weighing Duff for my journal and checking her over. I put her back in her 29 gallon high tank but without the lid (was going to change her water) and was writing her notes down when she slithered up the side of the glass viv, popped her head over the top and bit me! She let go immediately but still sat there staring at me like "WTF? FEED me, wench!" It was hysterical and made me know she will be all right.

And yes, NO deep clean, just spot clean is fine. I don't deep clean often, every couple of months or so, I just spot clean the dried poop daily if I find any (it doesn't smear like fresh poop, I wait a day) and use hot water on a rag to really scrub that area and then add a handful of fresh substrate where the old stuff was. You will always have an almost perfectly clean viv (except for urine which you can't always tell) and it leaves the scent of the snake in the viv, it is comforting to them to know they are home, at least I like to think that.

 

[cornyjo]

duff

So I'm assuming Duff was starving lol poor wee thing.I take it you used a pinky head as opposed to a mouse head because it's smaller and more chance of it staying down right ? My fear now is Theo is going to get aggressive because we have to leave him for so long and not handle him also because I can't keep an accurate weight on him to see if he gaining or losing ???? He seems very active always out and about viv and making lots of holes in substrate burrowing, again i was worried substrate a bit thick and he was going down to get more heat ???? It's only about half inch of substrate so doubt it doubting everything just now though !!! Temps on thermostat perfect so just creating problems that aren't there !!! Funny you say about you knowing mouse was too big for him because I feel Theos wee hairy(ish) pinkie was the problem I know I have very little knowledge but it's just a gut feeling but been assured by many it wouldn't make a difference !! If only snakes could talk x

 

[smigon]

Duff was hungry, but the thing about snakes is that they can go a long time (even months for bigger ones) without eating. They are opportunistic feeders and eat as much as they can whenever they can which is why it is important to use the Munson Plan as a loose guide. In the wild they have no idea when or what their next meal is so they will stuff themselves silly if they could. This is why I no longer take them to the Old Country Buffet.

Yes, the protocol is for a pinky mouse head. It allows something small to go through the digestive system without a problem of it being too big, but it provides the nutrients for their systems to heal. In the protocol I copied for you above (in blue) it says to feed a pinky head or half a pinky. I wanted to start small, I will do 1/2 a pinky next week, cut lengthwise.

With some of my beasties I wait a few extra weeks to bump up in prey even though they are at the weight the Plan says to bump up, but if they are long and lean I would feel more comfortable waiting and "eyeballing" the width of the snake. The size of the prey should be about 1.5 times the width of the snake, and if you see a bit of a bulge in their stomach after they eat then you are on the right track.

Don't worry about aggression. Once they are able to be held again they may be squirmy for a few minutes but once he recognizes your scent and knows that you mean him no harm he will chill out, most do regardless of how long it has been since held last. I have one corn who hates being held no matter what, she isn't nippy or anything, she just wants to be anywhere other than in your hands. She also NEVER comes out of her hides (temps are perfect) and so I leave her be. She gets held every other week for feeding and weighing, fighting me the whole time until she gets back in her viv and straight to a hide. I dangle an adult mouse in front of the opening of the cave hide and do the "zombie mouse dance" where you hold it by the tail and spin and wiggle it so it looks alive, and after a few moments she will snatch it out of my hands and yank it back into the hide. It is pretty funny.

If he is active that is a great sign. Burrowing is natural and normal, it is a good sign. Duff is so active and I know he wants to eat, but I have never gone through a regurge before and am going to rely on Kathy Love's infinite wisdom on the subject and follow her protocol. Soon enough she will be back eating on a regular basis.

Keep us posted!

 

[cornyjo]

perfect

Once again thank you !!! It's reassuring to hear that Theos behaviour at the moment is a good sign.I bought new scales yesterday as I was paranoid my others were out by 1-2 grams which is a lot for Theo at the moment being so small .I'm so tempted to weigh him but WONT as I would feel totally responsible if he didn't improve after following above steps !! Who told me snakes were easy lol I've not had to do anything for days but I'm so stressed its unbelievable !!!! I made a point of not buying Jo a snake t ill I really thought he was ready (years after he first asked) giving us both a long time to educate ourselves separately in the hope of having lots of information between us !!!! Problem is now we feel like complete beginners (which we are ) but clueless!!! It's one thing reading about other people's issues but completely diff e rent kettle of fish when you going through it yourself!! Local pet shop is where we bought Theo and they have been nothing short of useless!!!! So much so I'm shocked they are allowed to supply these reptiles without accurate and adequate details (more fool me) I'm pissed with them but also myself!! Anyway I will let you know how pinky head goes down when it's time . I think if there is any issues with this I want to see a vet but again this goes against above plan of handling grrggggggggrrrrrrrr Theo get better quick ,I wasn't the snake fan it's Jo but my god this little guy is taking over my life right now lol so worried dot com.Bet everyone else thinking Theo no more regurge that owner driving everyone crazy !!!! Xxx

 

[smigon]

LOL! You will look back at this in a few years and laugh at how stressed you got. I guess it is like first time parents, they are concerned over every sniffle, whine, and anything else that wasn't in the parenting books and use sanitary wipes, boil anything that touches the floor, but by the second kid they just use the nearest napkin or sleeve to wipe a nose, stick a pacifier in their mouths even when it came from off the floor, etc.

They are worth it, though, and it is a great lesson for both of us. Even though I have 13 corns and have been at this for 2 years I am still a total newbie too when it comes to stuff like this, and I am extremely grateful for the advice I have gotten here too.

 

[cornyjo]

13!!!!holy smoke .That explains your excellent knowledge .I had a look on your profile but couldn't see any pictures of your family!!!! Am I just looking in the wrong place ?? Would love to see your collection x

 

[smigon]

I am the world's WORST photographer! I am going to the Repticon here just so Bill Love can teach me a thing or two about photography!

My avatar is over 2 years old, that is Scarlett, my first, and that was taken 12/13, she was 25 and fit in the palm of my hand! Now she is almost 300g.