Heating lamp vs uth

[OkateeManiac]

What is your opinion

 

[CAV]

I will never again use lamps for colubrids. They are too hard to regulate, expensive to maintain, over dry the air in the enclosure and increase the likelihood of shedding problems.

 

[KatieL]

I use heat lamps on two of my snakes, and a uth on the other one. I feel that both are excellent sources of heat, and have yet to have trouble with humidity in the vivs over which I use heat lamps. I guess it would really be up to you which you prefer. Although, if you are already in an extremely dry environment then uth's would probably be the way to go. On the flip side, I find the overhead lighting provided by heat lamps (unless you are using a ceramic heater) to be asthetically pleasing. However, these are just my personal opinions and observations. Good luck deciding which to use!

 

[Had1nowwant1]

with a UTH the snake can get warm at night if it wants to but with a light the snake wont get any warmth if it wants to at night unless you use a red light or ceramic heater.

 

[KatieL]

with a UTH the snake can get warm at night if it wants to but with a light the snake wont get any warmth if it wants to at night unless you use a red light or ceramic heater.

This is true. However, my house is kept at around 75 degrees at night, so that is still a healthy temp for corns...its probably warmer than many summer nights in some places where they are naturally found. I believe some people let their viv temps fall to around 70 at night. Temperature drops during the night are normal.

 

[Spirit]

I will never again use lamps for colubrids. They are too hard to regulate, expensive to maintain, over dry the air in the enclosure and increase the likelihood of shedding problems.

Well said, and I agree. Also, belly heat (UTH) is more important to proper digestion than air temps (light).

 

[JBLAZE725]

Even though the light is placed above the snake it will still heat the substrate resulting in higher belly temps as you said.

 

[KatieL]

Both valid points. I guess the bottom line is that the snakes can thrive using either heat source, my 6 month old 26 inch snake is one of the "heat lamp snakes" and she has a perfect shed every time (which indicates sufficient humidity). My amel is also very healthy and is growing rapidly and she is the "uth snake." I really don't prefer either as a heat source, but I think the overhead lighting is a nice bonus with the lamps, which I already stated. I guess the point I'm trying to make is that either choice is fine, in my opinion.

 

[Bandit]

Indeed, in some of my vivariums I use both a basking light and a UTH, in others I just use a basking light as a heat source. So the choice is dependent on what you want to use. If you do use both, make sure they are both on the same half of the vivarium so you can maintain the cool side of the viv. Take multiple temp readings under the basking light and use different wattages to get the right bulb for the particular cage/tank/vivarium you are using.

The basking light can also be an aid during shed to increase the humidity of the vivarium by moving the water container so that part of it is under the light. This will increase the evaporation of the water and raise the viv humidity to help the snake shed. Just keep an eye on the water so it doesn't evaporate away. Change and clean the water container every 3 days and there should be no problem. When shed is finished, move the water container away. :crazy02:

 

[Spirit]

Even though the light is placed above the snake it will still heat the substrate resulting in higher belly temps as you said.

Heat comes from above = basking spot (which corns do not use or need)

Heat comes from below = belly heat (better for both digestion of food, and thermoregulation as room temps are usually sufficiant for the cool side. Also maintains humidity, as bulbs dry it out).

Heat comes from above, snake is inside a hide digesting = in the shade = top of the hide warm = inside the hide cool.

If the sun is shining on the roof of my house, that doesn't mean the floor I walk on will be warm to the touch. I'd need a heated floor for that.

 

[Joejr14]

Heat comes from above = basking spot (which corns do not use or need)

Heat comes from below = belly heat (better for both digestion of food, and thermoregulation as room temps are usually sufficiant for the cool side. Also maintains humidity, as bulbs dry it out).

Heat comes from above, snake is inside a hide digesting = in the shade = top of the hide warm = inside the hide cool.

If the sun is shining on the roof of my house, that doesn't mean the floor I walk on will be warm to the touch. I'd need a heated floor for that.

Have you personally done tests to see if belly heat is in fact better? What information are you basing this upon?

I would like to see some statistics showing that belly heat is in fact better for the snake. It would seem that in the wild there is no 'belly heat' and that the sun does in fact heat the substrate that a snake is crawling upon, and this is why I would like to know if someone has done any experiments regarding this.

Until then, I dont think it is fair to say conclusively that 'belly heat is better'. None of the big breeders use belly heat---or a temp gradient for that matter. Most of them have a herp room or whatever that is temperature controlled at a certain level, ie. 80 degrees.

They are successful, that would indicate to me that belly heat is not 'best' or better than any other specific type of heat.

 

[mosdef]

funny funny funny, i have 2 03's that one is on heat lamp the other is on uth, no difference whatsoever if anything my amel with the heat lamp is more active, they are growing and eating at exactley the same rate. the only thing with the light is its a bit hard (where i have a small aquarium) to give her a temp gradient, which absolutley does not seem to effect her.

 

[mosdef]

i also think it is pretty close minded to say there is only one way to do something, if in fact it is proven that another method works equally as well, this is the main thing about these forums, i geuss people have success one way and that becomes the only way. just interesting to see advanced herpers telling each other there is only one way to do things, when they have both had success doing things differently. bottom line get the temps right with humidity and use whatever you want to get them at that temp! thats my advice (im still a beginner, im not trying to give people the i know everything attitude) this is just something ive observed mostly on this forum. thx

 

[Spirit]

Oh here we go. :rollseyes: Not stating facts here, Junior. Just my own personal opinion.

 

[Joejr14]

Oh here we go. :rollseyes: Not stating facts here, Junior. Just my own personal opinion.

You're regurgitating information that you've read---nothing you said was from your personal opinion. Plus, you own one corn---you have nothing to compare.

Heat comes from below = belly heat (better for both digestion of food, and thermoregulation as room temps are usually sufficiant for the cool side. Also maintains humidity, as bulbs dry it out).

Says who? Is the forest floor heated? When I have my light on facing into my rack after feeding, a lot of my corns will come lay out by the light. To me that's using a 'basking spot'.

Heat comes from above, snake is inside a hide digesting = in the shade = top of the hide warm = inside the hide cool.

Dont agree at all. A red light is going to heat up the air inside the viv/tub/rack. There is no invisible border that doesn't allow heat into the hide. Whatever the hide is, it's going to absorb heat, period. That's just a fact. In fact, as soon as I turn my light on the temps inside the hides go up.

If the sun is shining on the roof of my house, that doesn't mean the floor I walk on will be warm to the touch. I'd need a heated floor for that.

Sure, but do you live in a greenhouse? I didnt think so. You have a solid roof on your house which blocks sunlight from getting in. If you go outside and sit on a rock on a sunny day, is the rock hot/warm or is it cold since it's not heated from the bottom? What about in your car? If you have the AC blasting but a sunroof that shines over something---is that spot not hot? Thought so.

You've also said that you need both because the temps in your room are in the 50's or 40's. Not sure how that's possible, but that also has something to do with humidity. As long as you have a big enough water bowl, using a light doesn't hurt things and that's based on my opinions of not having any problem sheds with my current 13 snakes.

 

[SnakemanC6]

Just tagging along...

I prefer UTH's over heat lamps. i just think UTH's are easier to use than lights, especially if you have smaller vivs or a rack. if youve got a larger viv where a gradient can be created lights would work just fine. I think both have been used long enough and with enough success that we can say that EITHER will work just fine.

DISCLAIMER: Snakemanc6 hereby states that he is not taking sides in this matter. lol :sidestep:

 

[Sisuitl]

I don't have a huge number of snakes so I can get away with using lights. I did notice that when I started using lights my snakes got more active. Sometimes they would come out of their hides and bask in the light, rather than being perpetually hidden in their cuddly warm hides. This was nice in my opinion, since I set up their cages as display thingies.

 

[jazzgeek]

You're regurgitating information that you've read---nothing you said was from your personal opinion. Plus, you own one corn---you have nothing to compare....< snip >....and that's based on my opinions of not having any problem sheds with my current 13 snakes.

I'm not following the logic here, joe. Are you claiming that your opinion has more validity based on the quantity of corns you keep?

I'm sure you hold certain political opinions. By logical extension, your opinions are less valid than one who holds elected office. Would that be something you agree with? I hold certain theological opinions; are those less valid than from one who is ordained? Furthermore, since my 401(k), savings, and Social Security contributions are greater than yours, are my opinions regarding retirement financial strategies more valid than yours?

"Opinions" are based on a number of things, be they direct experience, "book" experience, hearsay, bias, etc. It's not the opinions in and of themselves that are valid, but the truth/facts/RESULTS from which those opinions are based. As Kathy Love has pointed out in this thread (which, ironically, was started by you), the beauty of keeping corns is that their requirements allow a degree of flexibility/forgivability that most herps don't. Thus, if the RESULTS of using a UTH for corns in one application are the same as using lamps, or using nothing but a warm room in the southern US for another application, guess what? Each "opinion" is equally valid!!

And that has not one whit to do with the number of animals kept. It's an issue of quality, not quantity.

regards,
jazz

 

[Joejr14]

I'm not following the logic here, joe. Are you claiming that your opinion has more validity based on the quantity of corns you keep?

Jazz,

Experience-

1. Active participation in events or activities, leading to the accumulation of knowledge or skill: a lesson taught by experience; a carpenter with experience in roof repair.
2. The knowledge or skill so derived.

Opinions are only worth the vaildity others put into the said opinion, and normally that comes from experience. I am saying that my keeping of 11 corns and 2 bp's gives me more experiences than something who has one cornsnake, which is less than a year old. Having an opinion has nothing to do with experience, and the opinion is what I am questioning, but I'm trying to base that off of experience. Most here would take Kathy's opinion over mine. Why? She has more experience with snakes than I do. She has more snakes, and over a longer period of times which means that she has been able to collect 'snake knowledge' for ~30 years or whatever it may be, and is therefore basing her opinion on her experience, rather than what someone else has wrote.

This is my gripe. Taking what is commonly said on the board and regurgitating that while having minimal experience doesn't mean your opinion is more valid. I am by no means saying that my opinion is more correct, but at least my opinion is backed up by my experience.

I would have no problems if she has said, "I dislike aspen because it reduces the humidity in my tank, which I already have a problem with because of my location, so therefore I have found that forest bed works better because of xyz." However, that's not what has been said.

Oh here we go. :rollseyes: Not stating facts here, Junior. Just my own personal opinion.

This is my point. What is the opinion based upon? I believe it is being based upon what has been said numerous times. I have no personal issue with Spirit, I'm just getting short-tempered with people regurgitating 'commonly posted information' and chalking it up as an 'opinion'. She has said numerous times that at least for her BP's she needs the UTH and a light, because the temps in her room are in the 40's or 50's. How many people on this forum have room temps in the 40's or 50's? I certainly dont, and I'd assume that 90% have room temps between 60-75 degrees, which changes the 'opinion' and advice that is given.

I'm sure you hold certain political opinions. By logical extension, your opinions are less valid than one who holds elected office. Would that be something you agree with? I hold certain theological opinions; are those less valid than from one who is ordained? Furthermore, since my 401(k), savings, and Social Security contributions are greater than yours, are my opinions regarding retirement financial strategies more valid than yours?

Of course not. Politics doesn't really work in this type of argument or discussion. However, congressmen/people have more knowledge than 99% of the population simply because they have the experience of being in Washington and on Capitol Hill. I'd be willing to bet you that 50% of this board doesn't know how many articles there are in the Constitution, know what it takes for there to be a constitition amendment, or the chain of command from President down to speaker of the house. Everyone has an opinion, that's granted.

Do you have a knowledge about retirements funds and the stock market? Are you a licensed stockbroker or a financial planner? If I was and you were not, then yes, my opinion would in fact be more valid than yours if basing it upon knowledge. I would have knowledge, training and experience that you more than likely do not have. If you're just BSing around, then perhaps not. Again, opinions are more or less valid according to those who 'use' them.

"Opinions" are based on a number of things, be they direct experience, "book" experience, hearsay, bias, etc. It's not the opinions in and of themselves that are valid, but the truth/facts/RESULTS from which those opinions are based. As Kathy Love has pointed out in this thread (which, ironically, was started by you), the beauty of keeping corns is that their requirements allow a degree of flexibility/forgivability that most herps don't. Thus, if the RESULTS of using a UTH for corns in one application are the same as using lamps, or using nothing but a warm room in the southern US for another application, guess what? Each "opinion" is equally valid!!

I agree, opinions are based upon knowledge. That is the whole theme of my response. To me, simply reading a book does not make you an expert on the subject, nor does reading posts. If I had read Kathy's book 100 times and had it memorized and then you asked a question and both Kathy and myself answered it, who's opinion would YOU value more? I'd think you'd value Kathy's more. Why? Because her experience is based upon hands on, not reading a book. Is each opinion equally valid? Perhaps so, depends whom you ask. Kathy's knowledge is based on familiarity with corns through experience, while in this scenario mine would have been based on study. Again, who's 'opinion' would you consider more valid?

Kathy is absolutely right, corns are totally unique. I have snakes that I can play with right after feeding and wont upchuck. I have others that will not eat a meal while I watch, and will regurge if I so much as peek into their cage after their feeding. Spirit's post about snakes not basking obviously did not make it to my corns, because guess what, they bask when the light is on. I have several hatchlings who will come right out after a feeding and lay against the sterilte and absord heat from it.

Heat comes from above = basking spot (which corns do not use or need)

My problem is (which corns do not need or use). That is implying that no corn uses a basking spot, and again, where is this coming from? She has one corn snake. I would not take as much offense to the post if it were worded as (my corn prefers his UTH over his heat lamp because he never basks). That's fine---that is opinion based on personal experience. My personal experience is quite different than Spirits.

Also, find me a big breeder (ie. Rich, Kathy, Don) who uses belly heat. If you were to email each one and ask, I do believe they would all say their 'snake rooms' are climate controlled. They seem to be doing fine. Is it because two live in Florida and one in Texas? Perhaps. I do believe I recall Rich saying when he was in MD he used flexiwatt, but the fact is that none of them currently use belly heat and simply rely on ambient air temps. What does a heat lamp do? It raises ambient air temperature inside the viv. Saying that one is better than the other is IMO, wrong---and you seem to agree with that. Each varies from application to application, whichi is why saying that using a light is bad, is wrong. If it's so bad, my snakes certainly dont show it.

BTW, I didn't start this thread.

And that has not one whit to do with the number of animals kept. It's an issue of quality, not quantity.

I partly agree, and party disagree. If you kept 10 corns your entire life and never bred them, or never experienced anything like scale rot or mouth rot, would your opinion be as valid as someone who had 1000 snakes and had experienced that before?

I am honestly not out on a witch hunt here, even though it might seem it. If it does, I apologize to Spirit for coming across that way. I just think that there is a VERY thin line between touting something as fact, and as opinion gained through experience. To say that one thing doesn't work, is wrong, especially when others will tell you it does in fact work.

 

[Spirit]

Holy crap. I'm not even going to TOUCH this one. :laugh:

I stand by my previous statement, and I still agree with CAV.