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Help with ID please? :)

Suzy

Suzy

Shazoooooo!
So my brother just got home from work and brought this little guy to me. He said that it was in the warehouse where he works, and I have no clue why he brought it to me. So, if you could help with an ID, i'd appreciate it. I'm located in Eastern Kansas if that helps any. My guess is a Night Snake (Hypsiglena torquata) but i'm not 100% sure. Thanks for the help!
 

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Cornsnake124 said:
I hope someone else will chime in because I am not sure, but Florida King? Florida Milk? not sure.
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Me too! :) I've got him set up in quarrantine in the bathroom right now. He's got a tub with a lamp for heat because I don't have any heating pads right now.
I don't believe we have those in Kansas - I was looking into it a little bit more, and I believe it could be a Prairie King (Lampropeltis calligaster) but again, i'm not 100% sure. It looks really similar - especially the eyes and the shape of the nose. It's the belly that's making me confused.
 
It's definitely not a Florida King. There is, unfortunately, no such thing as a Florida Milk. I was sort of thinking Prairie King. BeothanLover has one, right? Maybe she'll chime in! I have never seen one in real life, was just thinking what king/milk/rat could live in your area...
 
Nanci said:
It's definitely not a Florida King. There is, unfortunately, no such thing as a Florida Milk. I was sort of thinking Prairie King. BeothanLover has one, right? Maybe she'll chime in! I have never seen one in real life, was just thinking what king/milk/rat could live in your area...
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My initial thought was a colubrid. That's what I know for sure. Here's a list of snakes from my state - maybe you can see if something looks familiar. :)
Thanks for your help! :)
 
It's a racer. Eastern Yellow Belly is my guess. Coluber constrictor flaviventris.
Coluber_constrictor_flaviventris.jpg

From Wikipedia

I can tell you with absolute 100% certainty that it is not a nightsnake and it is not a calligaster.
 
tyflier said:
It's a racer. Eastern Yellow Belly is my guess. Coluber constrictor flaviventris.
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I knew I could count on you! :) Thanks so much! (Eastern Racers are very common in Kansas, too.) I just didn't think that was it because of the pattern, but juveniles tend to be a lot different than adults. Thanks again! :)
(Also, I just Googled, and it's identical - Juvenile Eastern Racer)
 
Yea, I stole the picture of a juvie from Wikipedia hoping you would see it and confirm. I wasn't 100% sure it was an Eastern yellow belly, but I am positive it wasn't anything else mentioned.

Glad to be helpful!
 
tyflier said:
Yea, I stole the picture of a juvie from Wikipedia hoping you would see it and confirm. I wasn't 100% sure it was an Eastern yellow belly, but I am positive it wasn't anything else mentioned.

Glad to be helpful!
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That worked out great for me! :D I just needed the idea in my head. LOL
I was kind of wishing it was a Prairie King, because I may have kept it then. But this little guy will be getting released back outside tomorrow. He'll get a warm home tonight, but that's it. :) He's really adorable, but they don't do well in captivity, and i'm sure he's already got a parasite load. I just don't want to risk my other snakes.
 
I don't know...if I found a juvenile racer or coachwhip that didn't machine gun bite me...I'd have a REALLY hard time letting it go. They are AWESOME snakes, and rare to find one that doesn't bite a million times a minute.

Plus...what have the temps been outside lately? Releasing him when it's getting this cold *could* be bad...I know I wouldn't release any snakes I found at this point, and I live in the desert...
 
tyflier said:
I don't know...if I found a juvenile racer or coachwhip that didn't machine gun bite me...I'd have a REALLY hard time letting it go. They are AWESOME snakes, and rare to find one that doesn't bite a million times a minute.

Plus...what have the temps been outside lately? Releasing him when it's getting this cold *could* be bad...I know I wouldn't release any snakes I found at this point, and I live in the desert...
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He was actually really docile! But I think he may have been a little cold. He's relaxing in the tub right now. I just don't know if it would adapt to eating mice - I looked around and couldn't really find any care sheets. The only thing I saw was the fact that they're known to have lots of parasites (which I guess is common for lots of WC snakes) and that they're really hard to keep alive in captivity.

The temps have been dipping down into the 40s at night lately, with the daytime temps reaching 65 to 70 at the highest. I would like to keep him in the house, but room is an issue - he's in the bathroom right now, and that's the only place I can put him temporarily. I can let him out in my (detached) garage which stays warmer than outside. There are also routes for him to get in and out if he so chooses.

My biggest issue with keeping him is whether or not he'll eat mice - I'd have to start him on pinkie heads to begin with because he's so small. I would say he's at most 5 grams right now. I mean, if you can show me where I can find a good care sheet or something of that nature, i'd think about it, but I don't want to risk giving my other snakes health issues. (If somebody from the Kansas City area would like to have him as a pet, PM me, and i'll be more than happy to let you have it!)
 
I don't have a caresheet, but I can tell you a few things...

First they are entirely diurnal and prefer warmer temps in the high 80s. They are visual hunters and will eat just about anything, but prefer rodents, lizards and other snakes. They are racers, and as such, are known to feed on road kill in the wild, which *should* make f/t conversion fairly easy. They are FAST and have an ultra high metabolism, so they need to be fed more often than a corn or kingsnake would. Every 4-5 days for an adult would be good, I think. They are MUCH more slender than corns, and would do better with smaller prey more often. Being diurnal, they would most likely fare better with a basking light rather than an UTH.

Judging from the pictures...I'd offer him a live pinky and see what he does. You might be surprised.

Ultimately, with the temps you describe, this snake is in danger if you release him, IMO. I'm not an expert, but 70*F daytime temps and 40*F nighttime temps...he should already be cozied up in a burrow somewhere. If you release him now, he runs the risk of freezing to death before he can find a suitable place to brumate. These snakes prefer warmer temps, and you wouldn't even find a rubber boa out in those temps, and I've seen them crawling in snow.

At the very least, I would put him in an enclosure and keep him in the garage where he can at least brumate safely to be released in the warmth of next spring.

Just my $.02...
 
tyflier said:
I don't have a caresheet, but I can tell you a few things...

First they are entirely diurnal and prefer warmer temps in the high 80s. They are visual hunters and will eat just about anything, but prefer rodents, lizards and other snakes. They are racers, and as such, are known to feed on road kill in the wild, which *should* make f/t conversion fairly easy. They are FAST and have an ultra high metabolism, so they need to be fed more often than a corn or kingsnake would. Every 4-5 days for an adult would be good, I think. They are MUCH more slender than corns, and would do better with smaller prey more often. Being diurnal, they would most likely fare better with a basking light rather than an UTH.

Judging from the pictures...I'd offer him a live pinky and see what he does. You might be surprised.

Ultimately, with the temps you describe, this snake is in danger if you release him, IMO. I'm not an expert, but 70*F daytime temps and 40*F nighttime temps...he should already be cozied up in a burrow somewhere. If you release him now, he runs the risk of freezing to death before he can find a suitable place to brumate. These snakes prefer warmer temps, and you wouldn't even find a rubber boa out in those temps, and I've seen them crawling in snow.

At the very least, I would put him in an enclosure and keep him in the garage where he can at least brumate safely to be released in the warmth of next spring.

Just my $.02...
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Well, I thought I would let you know this. I talked to my Dad, and he said that he doesn't mind me keeping the snake inside through the winter and then releasing it next spring. We're going to keep him in the bathroom where he is right now. :) I was actually kind of worried about releasing the snake in this weather too.

Ok, so with this snake being a really small snake (probably a hatchling would be my guess.), how often would you recommend feeding it? I think what i'd like to try first is a 1/2 pinkie, because I really don't think he can take much more than that. If he refuses that, then i'll go ahead and try a live pink and see if he'll take that.

He really is a cute little bugger, and seems to like being in the sterilite i've got him in. He doesn't seem stressed at all, and actually seems really comfortable in there. What I think I can do is a lamp during the day, and a heating pad overnight. Or just use a lamp during the day to brighten the room he's in, and keep the heating pad on all the time.

Thanks again for your help, Chris. I really appreciate it. :)
 
If you're going to release him in the spring, I wouldn't bother with heat or lights, I would brumate him in the garage or someplace dark and quiet. This is a hatchling, and as such...this is his first brumation cycle. Interrupting the natural flow of this cycle *could* be detrimental to his future cycle, meaning...if he is allowed to stay up through the winter in your care, he may not be as aware of the seasonal changes and the necessity to get down and brumate come next winter. As it is, he MUST be slightly confused because he is out and about in weather that is not suited to his well-being.

I would put him in the garage and try to keep him between 55 and 60*F for the winter. Give him LOTS of substrate for burrowing and fresh water, and keep him in darkness and seclusion. Only check on him once a week or so to make sure his water is fresh and clean, and just let him cycle naturally through the winter. This will help to reduce the chances of disrupting his natural cycle, and reduce the risks of him dying this season at the same time. He will also have a better chance of getting down in time next fall.

If you were going to keep him as a pet, I'd say go for it, and get him feeding and keep him up. But since your plan is to release in the spring, you want to try and avoid handling him, and you want to try and avoid acclimating him to captivity. This means no handling, no traffic, no artificial lights or cover, and no interferance. Don't offer prey, don't offer handling, and try really hard to just leave him alone. He will go down, he will wake up, and he will be better off in the spring.

Just my humble opinion...
 
Okay, that works. I've actually got a room in the house that gets cold during the winter. (It's only got a single pane window, and it's really drafty. I would say it easily gets down to 55 or 60 in the winter time.) It's also blocked off and used only for storage, which means a traffic-free room. The garage would be a worse choice IMO because it can get down to 20 or 30 degrees in the winter, which would likely freeze him without having a heat source.
I still really haven't decided if I want to keep him as a pet. Most likely not, to be honest. I will just let him brumate through the winter, and then let him go when it's warmer outside. My only question is, since he's so small will he be able to survive brumation? I know snakes can slow their system down - is that in essence what would happen with a young snake?
I will get some Aspen in the tub, and get him in the back room soon. Thanks again! :)
 
Yea, all snakes that live in temperate zones with distinct seasons brumate. It's a natural instinct. When it gets cool enough, he'll simply go to sleep, and occasionally wake up for a drink of water. If you can keep his temp in the 55*F range, he *should* be just fine come spring. Once the weather outside starts to warm up, you can start giving him a daylight cycle and slowly bring the temps up to match the outside temps. Once you get 3-5 days in a row that are above 75-80*F...take him out to a big empty field and let him go. He'll be just fine...
 
tyflier said:
Yea, all snakes that live in temperate zones with distinct seasons brumate. It's a natural instinct. When it gets cool enough, he'll simply go to sleep, and occasionally wake up for a drink of water. If you can keep his temp in the 55*F range, he *should* be just fine come spring. Once the weather outside starts to warm up, you can start giving him a daylight cycle and slowly bring the temps up to match the outside temps. Once you get 3-5 days in a row that are above 75-80*F...take him out to a big empty field and let him go. He'll be just fine...
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Ok, great! I was mostly worried about him losing weight.
I turned off the heat pad this afternoon (around 12:00 or 1:00) to give him ample time to cool down to room temp so it wasn't such a shock. About 10 minutes ago I put him in the back room where it's around 60 degrees right now. It was significantly cooler than the rest of the house, which is a good thing. :)
Great! I'll definitely be sure to do that. :) Thanks!
 
Good call Chris....

but a really handsome looking snake.
Don't know if that is common for the Yellow-Belly juvies but I for one would be tempted to keep that little fellow and see what comes of him.
 
Cflaguy said:
but a really handsome looking snake.
Don't know if that is common for the Yellow-Belly juvies but I for one would be tempted to keep that little fellow and see what comes of him.
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I am kind of tempted, but i've heard that they're not easy snakes to keep. I don't know any of the requirements for them, either. If I could find a caresheet, i'd look through it, but I don't know if an Eastern would have the same care as a Black Racer or another more common Racer.
He is a pretty guy, though.
 
Suzy said:
I am kind of tempted, but i've heard that they're not easy snakes to keep. I don't know any of the requirements for them, either. If I could find a caresheet, i'd look through it, but I don't know if an Eastern would have the same care as a Black Racer or another more common Racer.
He is a pretty guy, though.
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Bi gcage with lot's of floor space and climbing branches. These guys will eat lizards and rodents, but might be picky for lizards for a while. If he doesn't want to eat that, try big, juicy grasshoppers. Racers are extremely opportunistic in the wild, and *should* eat what you offer him, as long as it's the right size.

Use a heat lamp instead of an UTH. These guys are diurnal and will bask if you let them. They also like hot weather, so a basking spot in the low 90's works well during the day. Low 80's at night.

They are incredibly active animals, and *may* require more frequent feedings than a corn. I would try weekly and see how he does, if he's eating rodents. If he's eating lizards, every 5 days...see how it goes.

DISCLAIMER!!! This is not a care sheet, and this advice is not based on experience with captive racers. It's based entirely on what I know of the Coluber species and their wild habitats. I'm just guessing at what *should* work in captivity...

Take this with a grain of salt...
 
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