Hets

[ferdelance]

Is it in anyway possible to tell if your snake is a het or is het for a certain trait. If there is could someone please tell me

 

[ferdelance]

seeing that no one has responded i take it that there is no way

 

[jaxom1957]

seeing that no one has responded i take it that there is no way

There are a few morphs, such as motley and diffuse, that sometimes can be detected when het, but not with 100% accuracy. The short answer is "no".

 

[Paradox]

Breeding trias are pretty much the only accurate way of determining hets for most snakes.

 

[Susan]

There are a few morphs, such as motley and diffuse, that sometimes can be detected when het, but not with 100% accuracy. The short answer is "no".

Actually, motley is not one of the two morphs that MAY be detected when het. Jaxom should have typed diffuse and caramel.

 

[jaxom1957]

Actually, motley is not one of the two morphs that MAY be detected when het. Jaxom should have typed diffuse and caramel.

Het motley, when in combination with het stripe, is the one het that is nearly 100% detectable.

 

[Susan]

But ONLY when in combo with het stripe! And if that is how you wish to answer this question, then you also missed ultramelanistic when in combo with amel.

 

[Joejr14]

But ONLY when in combo with het stripe! And if that is how you wish to answer this question, then you also missed ultramelanistic when in combo with amel.

Haha, Susan PWND someone!

 

[gwb8568]

:shrugs: i saw the thread title and thought i might get to learn and understand something...................not happening.

 

[Susan]

:shrugs: i saw the thread title and thought i might get to learn and understand something...................not happening.

Are you having some difficulty in understanding something about "hets"? I believe I have a pretty good grasp of the whole genetics concept and would be glad to try and help.

 

[gwb8568]

Are you having some difficulty in understanding something about "hets"? I believe I have a pretty good grasp of the whole genetics concept and would be glad to try and help.

that would be awesome......i have loves book along with two other "corn/rat snake" books and read them all. sometimes things make sense, but as soon as another thread starts and the discussion get going......... :sidestep: i'm out.
i never followed biology through high school or college, and not being conceted, i was smart enough to get an academic scholarship along with an athletic. but when the topic turns to genes/traits/hets/homos/hypos/etc........ :sidestep: there i go again. all i know of as right now after being here for 8 months is that: amel lacks the blacks and anery lacks the reds. and i even have to picture my anery when i think it to my self to make sure i am not talking about the other.
and lastly.......one more thing that is very confusing is this from my "Corn Snakes and other Rat Snakes" book by Bartlett. This is what is stated in shorter terms: Corn Snake species....normal, okeetee, miami, rosy rat and kisatchie. Designer Corn Snakes........axanthic, amelanistic, blood-red, amelanistic (white albino), sunglow, candy cane, snow, ghost, blizzard, hypomelanistic, christmas, butter, pepper(pewter), lavender, amber and caramel. Pattern Mutations......motley, striped, aztec, milk snake phase, creamsicle and candy cane. now how in the hell can a candy cane be a "color" or "morph" AND also be a pattern....... :shrugs: now i don't understand all of the above and even after reading it over and over and over i still have some learning to do, but that last one throws me. i can deal with not knowing what you need to get a certain type snake (ultramel, granite, etc.) but i have yet to find a way to make it "stick". now granted next year i will be breeding for my first time (with pcar/paul) so once we mix up some parents and i get to see the results, it might make more sense to me then. but in the mean time, does anyone have like a 3rd or 4th grade level book on genetics.

sorry to "hijack" the thread as i was going to start one on my own, but with the replies that are sure to come after this post and the title being "hets" i thought that this might end up being a good thread for everybody who would like to learn. thanks again susan. :cheers:

 

[jaxom1957]

But ONLY when in combo with het stripe! And if that is how you wish to answer this question, then you also missed ultramelanistic when in combo with amel.

I wasn't changing my original answer, I had simply remembered that there were combinations of hets that were expressed and so noted one of them. Since I specified "when in combination with het stripe", your response "but only when in combo with het stripe" is redundant. Nor did I claim that the hets I listed were exclusive. I gave examples, first of hets that breeders claim they can spot, then of one that actually can be spotted.

As to my original response, het motley is one of the morphs that quite a few breeders claim they can spot (by variations in the saddles). I've yet to meet one who could spot them reliably, which was why I noted the lack of accuracy. If you want to correct me on something, please wait until I've actually made a mistake.

 

[Roy Munson]

that would be awesome...

Galen, this is from a reply I made a few months ago:

My family's eye color is a good (simplified) example for the homo/het thing:
My father has brown eyes, my mother has blue eyes, and I have blue eyes. Each parent contributes one of the two alleles that determine eye color. The brown allele is dominant over the blue allele, so the blue allele is considered recessive. For a recessive trait, both alleles have to be the same (homozygous) for the recessive trait to be expressed. Most pattern and color mutations in corns involve recessive traits. Let's call the brown-eye allele "B" and the blue-eye allele "b". Since blue is recessive, I had to get a "b" from each parent, to end up expressing (homozygous) the recessive blue eye trait (bb). Since my mother has blue eyes, she has to be homozygous for blue eyes too (bb). Since my father has brown eyes, but he had to have contributed a blue-eye allele in order for me to have blue eyes, we know that he is heterozygous for the blue-eye trait (Bb). Since the brown-eye trait is dominant, my father is expressing his brown-eye trait (B), but only carrying the blue-eye trait (b).

It helps to remember that the root word "homo" means "same", and the root word "hetero" means "different".

 

[diamondlil]

And that's how I figured out the 'family secret' that my oldest sister was not my father's daughter :sidestep: My father, mother, brother, sister and myself all had blue eyes, my oldest sister had brown. Unfortunately I learned tact well after genetics and got walloped for announcing my discovery at Sunday lunch

 

[Roy Munson]

And that's how I figured out the 'family secret' that my oldest sister was not my father's daughter :sidestep: My father, mother, brother, sister and myself all had blue eyes, my oldest sister had brown. Unfortunately I learned tact well after genetics and got walloped for announcing my discovery at Sunday lunch

:roflmao: That's the best story...

 

[diamondlil]

And unfortunately true. I also got walloped for explaining that bullocks have no b*llocks after a day with my farming uncle at the age of 4, to the delight of a bus full of pensioners

 

[Susan]

I wasn't changing my original answer, I had simply remembered that there were combinations of hets that were expressed and so noted one of them. Since I specified "when in combination with het stripe", your response "but only when in combo with het stripe" is redundant. Nor did I claim that the hets I listed were exclusive. I gave examples, first of hets that breeders claim they can spot, then of one that actually can be spotted.

As to my original response, het motley is one of the morphs that quite a few breeders claim they can spot (by variations in the saddles). I've yet to meet one who could spot them reliably, which was why I noted the lack of accuracy. If you want to correct me on something, please wait until I've actually made a mistake.

I never said you were changing your answer...just that your ORIGINAL comment...

There are a few morphs, such as motley and diffuse, that sometimes can be detected when het, but not with 100% accuracy. The short answer is "no".

...was not completely accurate. As seen here in your first reply, you made NO mention as to motley being "detected" as a het in association with stripe. And besides...there is no reliable difference between a homozygous motley and a motley het stripe (or motley/stripe if you prefer). The actual term "motley het stripe" is an inaccuracy to begin with. It's use is simply for the benefit of those people who have difficulty understanding the whole motley/stripe thing and to try to avoid all the confusion the numerous terms used is creating.

As for...

I wasn't changing my original answer, I had simply remembered that there were combinations of hets that were expressed and so noted one of them. Since I specified "when in combination with het stripe", your response "but only when in combo with het stripe" is redundant. Nor did I claim that the hets I listed were exclusive. I gave examples, first of hets that breeders claim they can spot, then of one that actually can be spotted.

As to my original response, het motley is one of the morphs that quite a few breeders claim they can spot (by variations in the saddles). I've yet to meet one who could spot them reliably, which was why I noted the lack of accuracy. If you want to correct me on something, please wait until I've actually made a mistake.

I would like to know who some of the "quite a few" breeders are that claim to be able to tell a cornsnake is het motley by looking at the phenotype as this is the first time I have ever heard anyone mention such a claim.

You DID make a mistake by not fully clarifying your first response in this thread and therefore potentially creating confusion and a false impression to someone that needed help. I just hope I have corrected your mistake.

 

[Susan]

that would be awesome......i have loves book along with two other "corn/rat snake" books and read them all. sometimes things make sense, but as soon as another thread starts and the discussion get going......... :sidestep: i'm out.
i never followed biology through high school or college, and not being conceted, i was smart enough to get an academic scholarship along with an athletic. but when the topic turns to genes/traits/hets/homos/hypos/etc........ :sidestep: there i go again. all i know of as right now after being here for 8 months is that: amel lacks the blacks and anery lacks the reds. and i even have to picture my anery when i think it to my self to make sure i am not talking about the other.
and lastly.......one more thing that is very confusing is this from my "Corn Snakes and other Rat Snakes" book by Bartlett. This is what is stated in shorter terms: Corn Snake species....normal, okeetee, miami, rosy rat and kisatchie. Designer Corn Snakes........axanthic, amelanistic, blood-red, amelanistic (white albino), sunglow, candy cane, snow, ghost, blizzard, hypomelanistic, christmas, butter, pepper(pewter), lavender, amber and caramel. Pattern Mutations......motley, striped, aztec, milk snake phase, creamsicle and candy cane. now how in the hell can a candy cane be a "color" or "morph" AND also be a pattern....... :shrugs: now i don't understand all of the above and even after reading it over and over and over i still have some learning to do, but that last one throws me. i can deal with not knowing what you need to get a certain type snake (ultramel, granite, etc.) but i have yet to find a way to make it "stick". now granted next year i will be breeding for my first time (with pcar/paul) so once we mix up some parents and i get to see the results, it might make more sense to me then. but in the mean time, does anyone have like a 3rd or 4th grade level book on genetics.

sorry to "hijack" the thread as i was going to start one on my own, but with the replies that are sure to come after this post and the title being "hets" i thought that this might end up being a good thread for everybody who would like to learn. thanks again susan. :cheers:

Since this thread may end up going on a side trip, I'll move your concerns down to my forum where I can try to help you in peace and quiet.

 

[jaxom1957]

I never said you were changing your answer...just that your ORIGINAL comment......was not completely accurate.

Had you said "not completely accurate", I wouldn't have taken issue. You said "motley is not one of the two morphs that MAY be detected when het". As I've had three local breeder/hobbyists tell me they could tell the het motleys by their saddles, I included it in my response. If you come to Modesto, California, I will try to introduce them to you. As I already stated, they are not accurate and the short answer (too late for that now), is "no".

As seen here in your first reply, you made NO mention as to motley being "detected" as a het in association with stripe. And besides...there is no reliable difference between a homozygous motley and a motley het stripe (or motley/stripe if you prefer).

I made no mention of it because I wasn't referring to motley/stripe, but to het motley alone. Again, I noted the unreliabilty of recognizing het for motley in the statement.

The actual term "motley het stripe" is an inaccuracy to begin with. It's use is simply for the benefit of those people who have difficulty understanding the whole motley/stripe thing and to try to avoid all the confusion the numerous terms used is creating.

I agree completely, which is why I didn't use "motley het stripe". I said "het motley, in combination with het stripe". My favored usage is "motley/strip".

You DID make a mistake by not fully clarifying your first response in this thread and therefore potentially creating confusion and a false impression to someone that needed help. I just hope I have corrected your mistake.

As I stated that recognizing the het status was inaccurate, with which you've agreed, I didn't make a mistake. I am surprised that you've never met a breeder that claimed to recognize motley hets, as I've already met three locally; perhaps they've convinced each other of it. At least one claims to recognize het hypo as well. I didn't find any proof of being able to recognize motley with much better than a 60% average (barely better than flipping a coin), or of being able to recognize het hypo at all, I included the disclaimer. Had you posited your reply as a clarification, which my statement could have used, rather than a correction, I wouldn't have needed to reply.

 

[gwb8568]

Since this thread may end up going on a side trip, I'll move your concerns down to my forum where I can try to help you in peace and quiet.

thank you susan..............just trying to get invloved in the forum, but also trying to learn at the same time. i know allot of people come on here, either because they are bored or they think they know what is going on. but i DO KNOW the people here, and you are one of the tops in "who to talk to". yeah, i might find someone with allot more points and/or posts, but until they act like you, roy, mike, dale, carlos, paul, etc...............let them leave.