How did this happen?

[salvadorian]

So I was talking to Justin Guyer today about my male blizzard that will be arriving soon ( :cheers: ) and we got to talking about Zephyr's mystery genetics. SHE obviously is a Fluorescent Amel, but in her clutch of sixteen, there was only one other snake like her.
2 Amels (the other wasn't very bright)
10 Charcoals
4... mystery snakes. These snakes appeared to be very pretty Butters. They weren't pink at all and they had the nicest yellow markings and red eyes.
The mother was on sight and was an amel. The father wasn't there and I didn't think to ask about him.
So what I'm asking is.... how does it make sense for this clutch to happen? I'm completely clueless. I really want to know what Zephyr's underlying genetic possibilities are and what will happen when I breed her with my blizzard!

So... can anyone explain how this could happen? Post photos of butter hatchlings and any other morphs that are more possible than butters? Tell me what morphs Zephyr has in her makeup and what could happen when I breed her with a blizzard? Anything?!

Gah! Thanks everyone! Looking forward to unravling this genetic mystery!

 

[salvadorian]

* could they possibly have been highly marked snows?

 

[TandJ]

What was the original formulation of the Justins Mysteries? That would answer a lot of questions..


Sounds like High Yellow Blizzards..

Regards.. Tim of T and J

 

[salvadorian]

* Zephyr was purchased from some people who accidently bred her parents. I don't think that she has any relation to Guyer's snakes.

 

[Carinata]

Guyers ghost corns came from a Snow het Hypo and a hypo het anery. He was not aware of these hets.

 

[Carinata]

So I was talking to Justin Guyer today about my male blizzard that will be arriving soon ( :cheers: ) and we got to talking about Zephyr's mystery genetics. SHE obviously is a Fluorescent Amel, but in her clutch of sixteen, there was only one other snake like her.
2 Amels (the other wasn't very bright)
10 Charcoals
4... mystery snakes. These snakes appeared to be very pretty Butters. They weren't pink at all and they had the nicest yellow markings and red eyes.
The mother was on sight and was an amel. The father wasn't there and I didn't think to ask about him.
So what I'm asking is.... how does it make sense for this clutch to happen? I'm completely clueless. I really want to know what Zephyr's underlying genetic possibilities are and what will happen when I breed her with my blizzard!

So... can anyone explain how this could happen? Post photos of butter hatchlings and any other morphs that are more possible than butters? Tell me what morphs Zephyr has in her makeup and what could happen when I breed her with a blizzard? Anything?!

Gah! Thanks everyone! Looking forward to unravling this genetic mystery!

Well so if you bred
AmelXBlizzard (Charcoal X Amel) you would get
Normals Het Amel and charcoal.

 

[salvadorian]

Well so if you bred
AmelXBlizzard (Charcoal X Amel) you would get
Normals Het Amel and charcoal.

Thank you! Really all I would get are normals, no Amels?
I know it's a long way away but I'm hoping for something unexpected!

 

[Shiari]

Actually, David, you got the offspring wrong.

An Amel x Blizzard (charcoalxamel) will result in ALL amel offspring het charcoal unless there are other hets they both share. And any other potential morphs will all still be dealing with the homozygous amelanism.

 

[Carinata]

Really all amels? Thats unteresting so AmelXAmel would give you all amels? I did not know that! You learn something everyday!

 

[Suzy]

You would get all Amels het Charcoal unless, as noted previously, you have unknown hets. I recommend using the Corn Calculator (from Ians Vivarium) as a guide. I love it, and use it fairly frequently.

 

[salvadorian]

You would get all Amels het Charcoal unless, as noted previously, you have unknown hets. I recommend using the Corn Calculator (from Ians Vivarium) as a guide. I love it, and use it fairly frequently.

That's so funny... I just now discovered that and used it. I decided that she's likely het charcoal because her mother was an amel and most of her siblings were charcoals. Here's my results:

Male: Blizzard ( Amel, Charcoal )

Female: Amel het Charcoal

Phenotype:

50.0% Amel het Charcoal
50.0% Blizzard ( Amel, Charcoal )

Genotype:

50.0% Amel het Charcoal
50.0% Amel, Charcoal


I likey

 

[Suzy]

That's so funny... I just now discovered that and used it. I decided that she's likely het charcoal because her mother was an amel and most of her siblings were charcoals. Here's my results:

Male: Blizzard ( Amel, Charcoal )

Female: Amel het Charcoal

Phenotype:

50.0% Amel het Charcoal
50.0% Blizzard ( Amel, Charcoal )

Genotype:

50.0% Amel het Charcoal
50.0% Amel, Charcoal


I likey

Are you sure her siblings weren't Anery A? That is different from Charcoal. The only way you can definitively find out if she is het for Charcoal is by breeding with the Blizzard. If you get Blizzards, then she is het.
It's more likely that she's het Anery A which when bred with another snake with the same hets would make a snow.

 

[salvadorian]

Hmmm... well, between Anery and Charcoal, her siblings looked more like charcoals to me. But they are easily confused.
For now I'm going to say that she's het charcoal, but when she has her first clutch I guess we'll see!
Now I'm all busy using the calculator to figure out what I should get next

 

[Suzy]

Hmmm... well, between Anery and Charcoal, her siblings looked more like charcoals to me. But they are easily confused.
For now I'm going to say that she's het charcoal, but when she has her first clutch I guess we'll see!
Now I'm all busy using the calculator to figure out what I should get next

Well, what color were the irises of the eyes on the suspected Charcoals? If they were dark, then they were likely Charcoals. Anerys have light irises and Charcoals have dark irises.
I just don't want you to get your hopes up for Charcoals and find out that she's het for Anery A.

 

[salvadorian]

Well, what color were the irises of the eyes on the suspected Charcoals? If they were dark, then they were likely Charcoals. Anerys have light irises and Charcoals have dark irises.
I just don't want you to get your hopes up for Charcoals and find out that she's het for Anery A.

Honestly I didn't take a good look at their eyes. I was too busy looking at the amels! But, I do know that they were (under not-so-close-inspection) rather dark, I would have described them as pure black if I didn't know better. But like I said... I didn't think to take a close look!
So.... it still goes unsolved! And as for the yellow and white siblings... who knows there either?! haha... maybe I can get the people to send me a couple of photos if they still have any of them.
I'm not jumping for joy over the idea of a charcoal, I really wouldn't mind anery or charcoal. One way I eventually get snows, and one way I get blizzards!
So... this will be continued after further investigation...!

 

[Shiari]

Really all amels? Thats unteresting so AmelXAmel would give you all amels? I did not know that! You learn something everyday!

Yes... really.

The majority of cornsnake genes are simple recessive. That means they need two copies of the gene for it to actually show (this is how one can have a normal "het" for so many other morphs). So if you breed an amel (two genes for amelanism) to an amel (two genes for amelanism) each parent will *have* to contribute an amel gene, which means all the offspring will have two genes for amelanism. This means all the offspring will be amels.

Just as if you breed your ghost to a ghost, you will get all ghosts. But if you breed your ghost to an anery, you will get all anery offspring "het" for hypo as a ghost is anery A and hypomelanism both being expressed at the same time.