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how intelligent are snakes?

I agree, humans, by nature, do this with a lot of different things. Take the media for instance. The media twists and scews thing so much, but most people don't take notice.

Lets just say a lot of popular oppinions are created by what and how the media portrays.

But what is obedience?

Is obedience teaching a dog to sit, stay, come, lay down because it knows that sometimes when it does this on command it gets a treat? But that sounds an offer lot like "association". This is however different than a hognose playing dead and musking at the site of an owl.

We learn so that we can get the things we want. I think it is our capability to learn that shows inteligence. So maybe a snake can learn a few basic associations just like a toddler wanting its sucker cries or a dog wanting a treat sits on command, but just how many of these association can they learn? I think that is where intelligence falls in.

Then there is the communication level and how many different things we can communicate to each other. Yet another variable.

It becomes increasingly complex. Requires a lot of research and data. And now my head hurts so I'm gonna leave it at that! :bang:
 
Jcapicy said:
Lil,
So far that is the best support I've seen.

After posting my prior reply i thought about how it applied to the King cobra biting at the arm of the user not the hook, then it hit me. If i bite the hook it hurts and nothing changes, if i bit the hand/arm they leave me alone. I'd be interested to see snakes in a maze compaired to rats in a maze then say an octopus, just to compair the 3.
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I've read that octopuses are quite smart - I think they were mentioned as the world's smartest invertebrate.
 
They have done a lot of tests on octopus. The tests mainly involve seeing if it can get a food item out of a container. They will even twist off lids and stuff. It is very cool to watch. Even though I think they are probably smarter than snakes I still don't see that it is much different than a snake testing its enclosure to find an escape route.
 
I think it's funny that humans think they are smarter than all other creatures on this planet. Yet we destroy our own planet, which is the only place we have to live. We kill for greed and hate. Oh yes we can invent things, but who ever said inventions where a good idea anyway. The world would be a lot better if we all lived in a more natural state. I think all animals including snakes have a higher level of consciousness that we can't even begin to understand. I believe even plants hold intelligence. Humans are just apes with ego trips ;) Sorry just my opinion.
 
being that I sit and stare at a King Cobra a few times a week, I can tell you there is an intelligence in that animal. i don't see why other snakes can't be the same
 
I love the fact that you included Plants Raven Spirit, so many people don't give them that sort of respect and understanding and I very much believe the same, and I think its that sort of disconnect that is part of why humankind is doing what it is to this planet, and while it might not seem like it addresses the original question it does do so very well imho...

As the joke goes I'm still looking for intelligent life on this planet. I'd rather not try to place intellectual judgments on snakes based on our systems of reasoning and logic, We haven't really been proving to have the greatest track record in "understanding" or "consciousness". We would do well to look at that which we seem hell bent on controlling or conforming to our liking and try an be a lot less Ego-centric.

I don't see my snow as a pet, she's a companion in my life's journey and I'm quite certain she has a strong body, mind, and spirit as do all living beings and she will teach me a great deal about myself and the world as time goes on if I show her the respect and love she deserves. It is my belief that every living being you meet or bring into your life has a part which they play in it, and something to teach your mind, heart, and spirit in turn if you simply take the time to listen.

Thats how I see things and we all have to make sense of the world in our own way, it was an interesting question and some good ideas for thought too read thanks!
 
I think it's funny that humans think they are smarter than all other creatures on this planet. Yet we destroy our own planet, which is the only place we have to live. We kill for greed and hate. Oh yes we can invent things, but who ever said inventions where a good idea anyway. The world would be a lot better if we all lived in a more natural state. I think all animals including snakes have a higher level of consciousness that we can't even begin to understand. I believe even plants hold intelligence. Humans are just apes with ego trips Sorry just my opinion.
Click to expand...

I love the fact that you included Plants Raven Spirit, so many people don't give them that sort of respect and understanding and I very much believe the same, and I think its that sort of disconnect that is part of why humankind is doing what it is to this planet, and while it might not seem like it addresses the original question it does do so very well imho...

As the joke goes I'm still looking for intelligent life on this planet. I'd rather not try to place intellectual judgments on snakes based on our systems of reasoning and logic, We haven't really been proving to have the greatest track record in "understanding" or "consciousness". We would do well to look at that which we seem hell bent on controlling or conforming to our liking and try an be a lot less Ego-centric.

I don't see my snow as a pet, she's a companion in my life's journey and I'm quite certain she has a strong body, mind, and spirit as do all living beings and she will teach me a great deal about myself and the world as time goes on if I show her the respect and love she deserves. It is my belief that every living being you meet or bring into your life has a part which they play in it, and something to teach your mind, heart, and spirit in turn if you simply take the time to listen.

Thats how I see things and we all have to make sense of the world in our own way, it was an interesting question and some good ideas for thought too read thanks!
Click to expand...

I am right there with you guys! Very eloquently put, both of you! :)
 
Amen to that

RavenSpirit360 said:
I think it's funny that humans think they are smarter than all other creatures on this planet. Yet we destroy our own planet, which is the only place we have to live. We kill for greed and hate. Oh yes we can invent things, but who ever said inventions where a good idea anyway. The world would be a lot better if we all lived in a more natural state. I think all animals including snakes have a higher level of consciousness that we can't even begin to understand. I believe even plants hold intelligence. Humans are just apes with ego trips ;) Sorry just my opinion.
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I couldn't agree more, I'm always ranting on about stuff like that Its a shame we're ruining such a beautiful place....I'd happily go back toa more simplistic way of living, I mean hey we can have modern and materialistic things but why do we have tog o over board and coverthe WHOLE planet in man made things!
 
Oooo and another thing that annoys me, intelligent or not we ARE animals so we're just as equal to any other animal on the planet......so how comes we control EVERYTHING we always judge intelligence by what we percieve intelliegent, I saw some bloke kick a dog because it was "annoying him" I kicked off and said what right do you have to kick the dog just because its in your way, his response was "Its jsut a stupid dog, he should learn not to be in MY way".............I saw red!
 
luschen Quote:

I've read that octopuses are quite smart - I think they were mentioned as the world's smartest invertebrate
Click to expand...

ZoologyMajor They have done a lot of tests on octopus. The tests mainly involve seeing if it can get a food item out of a container. They will even twist off lids and stuff. It is very cool to watch. Even though I think they are probably smarter than snakes I still don't see that it is much different than a snake testing its enclosure to find an escape route.
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In fact the common (vulagris) Octopus is the only invertebrate entitled to welfare rights
 
I like where this thread is going.

I read above a mention to plants. Studies in botany have shown that plant growth can be effected by sounds and possibly voice tones. And have seen nueral sensors show activity when attached across the stem and leaves of a living plant, which is a remarkable as it is mysterious.

As far as percieved inteligence of animals goes it's definately a debatable issue, but I feel that animals do deserve rights, exactly what rights is also debatable but they deserve them none the less. I just think its the people who call animals stupid who are the ones who make humans look stupid!
 
Oh, and one other thing. Some apes and dolphins, especially chimps and the bottle-nosed, are refered to as highly inteligent animals do to their ability to use tools. The crow is also an example of this. In china, crows have been observed dropping hard shelled nuts on the road to allow vehicles to run them over and crack them open, then flying down to reap the rewards. In this sence I could se snakes being inteligent as I have seen one of my own snakes carry food to the wall of a feeding tub to aid in balance and to help push food into its mouth, or to turn food.

Who knows what goes on in those cute little heads of theirs.

I think of lot of things are taken for granted with animal intelligence just because there is a rational eplanation for it. Just because it can be explained in a manner biast towards them having intelligence doesn't mean they don't have any. On the other hand it is not proof either, and there may never be a sure way to tell. That being said, humans as a whole will likely never believe it, as we (humans) can't verify it for ourselves.
 
They are pretty simple critters, but anything with a brain has some kind of intelligence. The reptilian part of the brain is where we get our most basic emotions from after all.

People have long said "*This* is what separates man from animal" only to have it disproved later (things like tool use, culture, etc.). There isn't one thing that clearly marks the point between man and animal. It is all a matter of degrees. A crow can make a tool out of a stick or paperclip, but man can make a rocket to the moon.
 
one thing that separates reptiles from other animal groups is the level of parental care. Mammals etc. have to have a 'higher' level of intelligence as they often learn behaviours from their parents as they mature.

I respect reptiles for their evolution. Having a full repetoir of behaviours from hatching/birth negates the need for them to posess higher learning abilities, instead enabling them to get by, as Jcapacity has already mentioned on Pavlovian associations

Just my two cents (or pence) :)

Tom
 
TWGarland said:
one thing that separates reptiles from other animal groups is the level of parental care. Mammals etc. have to have a 'higher' level of intelligence as they often learn behaviours from their parents as they mature.

I respect reptiles for their evolution. Having a full repetoir of behaviours from hatching/birth negates the need for them to posess higher learning abilities, instead enabling them to get by, as Jcapicy has already mentioned on Pavlovian associations

Just my two cents (or pence) :)

Tom
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Is it snowing in hell? ...................:crazy02:Cause someone just agreed with me????:crazy02::cheers:
 
Humans are the most intelligent animal on earth and it's all down to the fact we can communicate.. Not just by speaking but by writing.. I can write something down to pass on and you can then learn it, develope it to the next level write that down pass it on an so forth. All other animals just learn by watching the behavior of others.
MIKE
 
Animals do communicate, quite well, and learn from each other. There are more forms of communication than just writing and talking. There are other dimensions of thought that we all communicate at but most humans don't realise this. Everything we know that has been proven by science is just a very small fraction of what really exists. Science usually only takes into consideration what it can prove physically, but there is so much that exists outside of the physical realm. WE'll have to wait another hundred years for science to actually prove animal intelligence on all beings, if they ever do.
Just my two cents ;) HEHEHE
I am glad we all have different views, otherwise this thread wouldnt be interesting.
 
funnynonsense said:
um ...... yeah ...... how intelligent are snakes?

Just been thinking about it - how intelligent do you guys think our corns are?
Are they just eating, pooping, mating machines driven by instinct :eatsmiley or is there something more to them?

What do you guys think?
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Boy, snakes are so smart they got us humans feeding them, housing them and cleaning poop up after them. :rofl: :rofl:

The other night my husband said to Hayyah "It's not okay to bite, you can poop on me but not bite me." With that Hayyah pooped all over him. How smart is that. :laugh01:
 
Animals do communicate I agree. But they don't write down their knowledge for other animals to learn from...I could write down a set of complete instruction on how to operate a complex machine (like a car) and another human, without any knowledge of that machine could operate it without any other aid than my instructions. Thats what separates us from all other living things.
MIKE
 
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