how long can i keep a baby corn in a 10g tank

[Wallawalla]

just wondering how long can they stay on a 10g tank as a baby

 

[ghosthousecorns]

For about 2 years depending on growth rate, I would start out in something a little smaller though.

 

[Dragonling]

General rule many people adhere to is that when they can reach halfway around the perimeter it's definitely time to upgrade. In the case of a 10gal, that's about 2.5 ft.

I keep mine in 6qt tubs until ~20 inches, 15qt til a little over 2ft, then into 32qt. I will probably start moving my larger adults over 3.5ft into 41qt racks in the next year or so.

 

[axis1]

General rule many people adhere to is that when they can reach halfway around the perimeter it's definitely time to upgrade. In the case of a 10gal, that's about 2.5 ft.

I keep mine in 6qt tubs until ~20 inches, 15qt til a little over 2ft, then into 32qt. I will probably start moving my larger adults over 3.5ft into 41qt racks in the next year or so.

Hiya Dragonling! How ya been?

Long time no see! (My fault as I've been busier than a mosquito in a nudist colony lately!).

Sorry I'm late to the party but I think you might have made a boo-boo or typo in the above-written statement, unless I'm just slower than the average bear. Which would also make sense as it is a well-known fact that if you stood close enough to me you MIGHT be able to hear the OCEAN! (Only kidding, I'm not THAT dumb, but I DID take the wrong bus one time while trying to figure out what a sign on a wall that said "Dry Paint" meant - actually never DID find out the answer to that one).

But back to the topic: If the general rule of keeping a 2.5' snake in a 10 gallon tank is appropriate than aren't you kinda pushing the envelope by moving your adult snakes (over 3.5') into a 41 quart container? After all, 41 quarts would be equal to just over 10 gallons, no? (I think that's where your typo might be, because that's way too small for a 3 and 1/2 foot sneaky one and doesn't even jibe with what I think you were trying to say).

Anyhoo, I, don't adhere to rules of thumb for my little sneaky ones and try to give them all as much room as I can afford to give them, since the sky's the limit for them in the wild and the only boundaries they have are imposed by nature and their need to feel secure from predators. I just make sure my snakes have LOTS of clutter and hiding spots, which contradict aesthetics very often (as in the case of the OP in this thread as toilet paper tubes are probably the BEST hides for hatchlings but don't look very appealing in the tank that's pictured). I have 55 gallon cages for each of my 3 adults, my yearling is now in a 20 Gallon glass-enclosed terrarium (he's about 2.5 feet), and each of my 6 hatchlings are in shoebox sized containers but they aren't even 2 months old yet. If I haven't re-homed them by their 3rd month, I will have to make some modifications, like purchase a new setup for each (I have one 10 Gallon tank not being used but I will need a minimum of 5 more, which can run into some serious cash with all of the other accessories, so I'm hoping I'll have found them appropriate homes by then).

I do understand everyone has their own limits on what they have and can afford. But I also believe that a well-intentioned snake owner who really cares about their snakes can unintentionally neglect and mistreat their pets by not being able to appropriately care for what they have by keeping them in containers that are too small (like the tigers you see in the zoo that just constantly pace back & forth). While the argument can be made that "they don't know any better," once you watch those tigers for more than just a few minutes you KNOW that they aren't content, whether they KNOW better or not!

Sorry, didn't mean to start philosophizing, but this can be a somewhat provocative and controversial topic, as many of us are passionate about our little sneaky ones, who are MORE than just PETS to us!

Just sayin'. :my2cents_01:

 

[axis1]

Oops!

Correction: The "OP" I was referring to in the previous post was in a totally different thread.

Here if you're interested: http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=144416

The point had to do with toilet paper tubes being great hides but not aesthetically pleasing to look at. The larger the enclosure, the more hiding places there should be, especially for younger snakes or hatchlings, as safety and the prevention of stress during this formative time makes for a more well-suited and docile adult.

Here's a picture of an alternative hide, which, if cleaned & disinfected appropriately, is just as good as toilet a paper tube. All you have to do is add a crumpled up sheet or two of paper towel or napkin in there and a hatchling should feel cozy & safe (I also place these hides on their sides in the enclosures):

 

[Dragonling]

The dimensions of the tubs are different since they are much shorter than a 10 gallon tank. I was going by the length and width.

 

[axis1]

The dimensions of the tubs are different since they are much shorter than a 10 gallon tank. I was going by the length and width.

OK, that makes sense. But what are the dimensions of a 10 Gallon tub? (Just curious, but I appreciate the response in any case). I guess the important thing is that a snake has enough room to enjoy or experience what is considered to be a good quality of life. Sometimes when I view a clip on YouTube of Snake Bytes TV or someone else who breeds snakes, while I wanna believe that the host really loves snakes, as you can see the passion some of them have in breeding and caring for them, I have a difficult time actually believing an animal with even a brain the size of an appleseed is not totally miserable in a container that is so small that there is poop & urates in the waterbowl because the snake probably couldn't avoid hitting it!

But thanx for the clarity. Appreciate it!

 

[Dragonling]

A 10 gallon tank is 20" long x 11" deep x 13" high, so the interior perimeter of the floor is around 60" or 5', half of which is 2.5'.

For comparison, here are approximate Sterilite tub dimensions:

6 quart -- 13" x 8" x 4" -- ~40" perimeter
15 quart -- 16" x 11" x 6" -- ~52" perimeter
32 quart -- 23" x 16" x 6" -- ~76" perimeter
41 quart -- 34" x 16" x 6" -- ~98" perimeter

Many breeders keep even larger corns in 28 quart racks, which have the same floor space as the 32 quart Sterilite tubs above but are about an inch and a half shorter. It's difficult to quantify the effects of extra space and even attempts at greater enrichment on such simple-minded animals. Being such a hardy species, they will eat and breed readily in the most neglectful homes. While keepers who provide larger and more naturalistic environments might claim their corns are "happier," a marked difference in clutch sizes, regurge or refusal occurrence, rate of illness/eggbinding, and aggressive behaviors has not yet been observed (though anecdotes abound on both sides). The only major physical advantage I see is the possibility for breeding females especially to get more exercise with varied climbing surfaces, particularly while gravid. But there is no way to be sure whether a snake is climbing a branch or slithering about just for fun, and those who have studied colubrid behavior and anatomy extensively are rather insistent that they probably do not have the physical capacity to really experience true leisure. I have observed that when my snakes are provided with more constraining hides such as small boxes or flat cardboard to hide under, they generally prefer them to sitting out in the open in their tubs, even if the tub itself is fairly darkened.

Many of the more bleeding-heart keepers will insist that snakes should be able to stretch out their whole bodies at any given time, but this is an anthropomorphization. How often have you seen a snake stretch out in a straight line? Humans enjoy a good stretch, as do most animals (primarily due to the muscle facia which are loosened up during stretching), but we have relatively few joints and very large muscles to stretch out, where snakes can stretch out small sections at a time much easier.

 

[axis1]

A 10 gallon tank is 20" long x 11" deep x 13" high, so the interior perimeter of the floor is around 60" or 5', half of which is 2.5'.

For comparison, here are approximate Sterilite tub dimensions:

6 quart -- 13" x 8" x 4" -- ~40" perimeter
15 quart -- 16" x 11" x 6" -- ~52" perimeter
32 quart -- 23" x 16" x 6" -- ~76" perimeter
41 quart -- 34" x 16" x 6" -- ~98" perimeter

Many breeders keep even larger corns in 28 quart racks, which have the same floor space as the 32 quart Sterilite tubs above but are about an inch and a half shorter. It's difficult to quantify the effects of extra space and even attempts at greater enrichment on such simple-minded animals. Being such a hardy species, they will eat and breed readily in the most neglectful homes. While keepers who provide larger and more naturalistic environments might claim their corns are "happier," a marked difference in clutch sizes, regurge or refusal occurrence, rate of illness/eggbinding, and aggressive behaviors has not yet been observed (though anecdotes abound on both sides). The only major physical advantage I see is the possibility for breeding females especially to get more exercise with varied climbing surfaces, particularly while gravid. But there is no way to be sure whether a snake is climbing a branch or slithering about just for fun, and those who have studied colubrid behavior and anatomy extensively are rather insistent that they probably do not have the physical capacity to really experience true leisure. I have observed that when my snakes are provided with more constraining hides such as small boxes or flat cardboard to hide under, they generally prefer them to sitting out in the open in their tubs, even if the tub itself is fairly darkened.

Many of the more bleeding-heart keepers will insist that snakes should be able to stretch out their whole bodies at any given time, but this is an anthropomorphization. How often have you seen a snake stretch out in a straight line? Humans enjoy a good stretch, as do most animals (primarily due to the muscle facia which are loosened up during stretching), but we have relatively few joints and very large muscles to stretch out, where snakes can stretch out small sections at a time much easier.

Hey there Dragonling! How ya been?

Extremely appreciated the somewhat extensive and very informative and well thought out description of the nuances of space and how it may or may not relate to the well-being of cornsnakes in general! While your interesting premise of the bleeding heart mentality is noted and totally understood, especially in reference to the relatively high number of folks who engage in anthropomorphism, however unconsciously, the jury is still out in my mind when it comes to the ability of a snake to stretch out in its enclosure. That said, you definitely have given even the serious observer and herpetologist or herpeculturist enough to process for a day or two and for that I thank you. Only wish there were one in one thousand (one thousandth?) as many as you on this board who would respond with as much fervor every once in a while!

Thanx again!