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How Many Mice

IndianaCorn

IndianaCorn

New member
I'm getting another corn and am going to be ordering a large amount frozen mice (since shipping is so high to buy just a few at a time). My question is..

Approxiamately how many pinkies/peach fuzz/fuzzies/hoppers does it take before it's big enough to eat adult mice? And is there anything wrong with keeping and feeding frozen mice a year and a half or two years?

Can anyone look at some old feeding records they have and help give me some estimates? Would 60 pinkies/15 peach fuzz/30 fuzzies/35 hoppers work? or am I way off? Help from people with feeding records would be greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance...

IndianaCorn
 
It's hard to say how long your snake will be eating pinkies, fuzzies, etc. Some snakes grow very quickly, and others grow much more slowly. In addition to genetics, it also depends on how much and how often you feed them. I have one snake who, at 18 months, was close to 4 ft! Needless to say, he was eating adult to extra large mice at that point. Most 18 month old corns won't be that large. Also, it's generally recommended that rodents can be kept frozen for about 6 months.

How old is the corn you're getting? If it was an '02 hatchling, it may likely already be eating fuzzies. If you mean that you're planning to get an '03 hatchling this summer/fall, then I'd plan on at least a few months of pinkies.
 
You may not want to hear this, but I'd look at 100 pinks for a 2003. They are way cheaper in bulk, you have more if you experience feeding or growth problems, and there is nothing wrong with feeding three at a time even if it could step up to the next larger size. Hold off on the hoppers, unless you have a larger snake that can eat them. If it's RodentPro, they run pretty big. It may be worth checking to see if there's another person in your area that would split some with you, most pet stores would let you post a bulletin board unless they're tyranical about selling their mice.
 
for what it's worth

I have a 2002 sunglow (triple clutched) that is still on pinkie heads! He's had regurge problems and probably wasn't meant to live, so that's the exception to rule.
 
I agree. My experience has been that many corns can be on pinkies for up to a year. Unless you have several snakes on a growth diet, I wouldn't order large quantities of fuzzies and hoppers unless you are ready to start using them soon.
 
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It's hard to estimate even with feeding records. I looked at records for my 2002's and they moved up in mouse size at different times. I have 12 02 babies and none are eating pinkies :)

Maybe you can find someone to go in on with the ordering. I order quite a few mice and my nephew gets them from me as he needs them. I always have whatever size mice he needs and he doesn't have to pay the high pet store prices:)
 
When a corn can easily eat two pinkies, it is generally safe to move them up to small fuzzies. Myself, I prefer to move them up to fuzzies once they are able to handle them. This is because, as far as I know, fuzzies are more nutritious than pinkies. Fuzzies are more fully formed, with more bone mass, etc. than pinkies are, or at least this is what I have read. My '02 hatchling has been on fuzzies for over a month now. You can feed them pinkies for up to a year, but personally, I would rather not. That's just my opinion.

Bear in mind, if this is your first hatchling, you are likely to underestimate what size food they can handle. The first time I feed Bonnie ('02 hypo bloodred) a fuzzie, I knew she would be able to handle it, but it still looked HUGE for her! She did fine, though, of course. :D Thought it was delicious.
 
CB '02 can be extremely varied with a 6 month difference in hatch dates. I have a '02 (first clutch) than has been on fuzzies for 8 weeks and is 28" long. I also have a '02 (late second or possibly third clutch) and is only 14" and while she eats like a champ, can only keep down one whole pinkie at a time. You just have to use a little common sense when choosing size and quantity.
 
REPLY ASAP PLEASE

My snakes are 02 hatchlings and i just meashured um and one is about 14 in and the other about 12 in!Is this to small i feed them one pinkie every week.Not one regurge yet.Ive had the 14 in one from a pet store in the middle of january and got the 12 in one at a reptile show at the end febuary.The 14 in one has shed 3 times since i got him and the 12 in one has shed 1 time and is in his blue stage now.Do u guys recomend me feeding more?Is thare size OK?
PLEASE REPLY ASAP ITS FEEDING DAY.

Thanx
Zach:eek:
 
I am sure they are fine. They are most likely 2nd or 3rd clutch babies, which would be smaller than a 1st clutch baby. The two '02's I got from Kathy Love are eating one pinkie a week and I will move them up to two a week within the next month or two. I'm sure your little ones are fine. Unless you want to powerfeed or just attempt to see if they will take more, I would just keep doing what you are doing....you will know when to give them more when the time comes.
 
If they are healthy and eating their meals fine, don't worry about them. Like Vegas Ghost said, they are probably 2nd or 3rd clutch '02s. Feeding a pinkie once a week is fine. Hatchlings can safely eat a little more than that, though, if you want to feed them more. I feed my '02 hatchling one mouse every five days. After she's a year old, I plan on changing that to every 7 days. Either way should be fine.
 
I also feed my little snakes

every 5 days. However, I move up to a week after they are eating a couple of fuzzies at a feeding. None of my 2002's are still on pinkies. Some of them are actually on hoppers already! I think it really depends on the snake...
 
Indiana Corn

I hope all this hasn't confused you. You've gotten a lot of info in the last several responses. But none is really conflicting, if you noticed. I haven't heard that older mice are more nutritional, though in terms of calcium, it makes sense. The important thing is to avoid buying older mice that are going to have to sit a long time before they ever get used. I'd go with a seller who vacuum packs if that is a risk.
A young corn can put up to a third of what it consumes towards its body mass, and the ones I breed do usually grow like weeds. But I purchase my share of other varieties (for future projects)from dealers and have had all kinds of growth results.
I'm sorry to have you walking away with a reply that equals "it depends," but that really is the case. Should you get too many pinks, feed more per meal. If it can't handle fuzzies when you're out of pinks, buy a pregnant mouse or three and freeze the pinks in the needed size stage. Best wishes.
 
I have a few more ideas to consider. What I have heard is that you shouldn't keep mice in your freezer for more than 6 months as they can lose nutrients. I also heard that this 6 months is only for separate deep freezers, not freezers that are attached to refrigerators. If it is an attached freezer, the time is much shorter. The other thing that I have heard is that if you keep feeding mice that are too small for your snake for too long (and obviously this wouldn't apply if you were only feeding smaller than necessary for a month or so) is that the size of the snake's head remains small in proportion to its body because they don't have to stretch any muscles or whatever in their head to eat the mice. I don't know if it is true or not.

I guess if you want to come down to it, buy the sizes you think you will need and then if you have way too many pinkies left over, just buy another snake or two!

sue
 
great idea Sue!

That would solve everything! Just buy more snakes! It really is convenient to have an extra or two that is always hungry so you don't have to trash your uneaten thawed mice.
As for the head growth part, that sounds really unlikely to me. Although I have seen tribal people who stretch their necks with rings or lips with plates; I'd think a snake's head size would be determined almost entirely genetically.
 
Thanks for all your opinions! I really like Sue's idea about just buying more snakes... so I'll keep that in mind if I have left over mice. I suppose I could slip an extra pinkie in a meal with a hopper for my other corn if need be. Well, either way I should be alright.

Thanks Again,

IndianaCorn
 
Oh, one more thing... Does anyone have any sources to back up what they've heard about frozen mice losing nutritional value after six months? Do all frozen things lose nutritional value after being frozen too long? Maybe I shouldn't waste my time eating some of that meat I got in the freezer? lol Maybe I should just get like a 1000 of all the different sizes and can them all for future use.. i think canned stuff lasts pretty much forever... haha

IndianaCorn
 
I've heard...

that the mice will last longer than 6 months (up to a year, I think)if they are vaccuum sealed. Does anyone have any info on this? Is this correct?
 
An old wives snake tale ..

Head size is genetic, I would betcha a buck. maybe even two. ;)

Long term freezing ...

Quote from cajun mice's website
http://www.cajunmice.com/faq.html

" All of our rodents are vacuum-sealed for longer shelf life (as long as they remain frozen in unopened packages). To be more specific, we use Cryovac® Vacuum Sealing for all packaging. They are generally packaged in quantities of 3 to 50 depending on the size of the rodent in question. Until opened, these packages can have a very extended freezer life (up to 3 years). Once opened, we recommend that you store the opened packages in a resealable freezer bag."


And Quoting Mice On Ice FAQ;
http://www.miceonice.com/faq.html
"As long as you keep them frozen, you'll have a 2 to 3 year shelf life."

I think those would be optimistic ideal environment projections. Perhaps not.
I suppose its done all the time, maybe? A "Deep Freeze" @ 40 degrees below zero fahrenheit (brrr) thats probably true and not a problem.
Home freezers operate at 0 to 10 degrees fahrenheit, if your lucky, cranked all the way down.
Put a thermometer in there and check.

Vacuum packed Mice with fur store longer and fare better through long term storage than bare naked ones do, from what I understand.

If I was looking at a frozen mouse, and had to recall what year its from, people would think I had gotten carried away ordering bulk mice a.k.a. "my dads gone crazy".

The million mouse discount...
Some guy'll be posting " I feed F/T ten year old mice, bought em back in the day, boy were they cheap and by golly gee them snakes just a love em".
Call the world record people, perhaps they'd be interested.
Time to clean out the freezer possibly.

Ahh, 01', now THAT was a succulent year for micees.

Nutritional breakdown of mice "meat" in a "hard" frozen state in vacuum packed cryovac for a year or two would be almost nonexistent.
External tissue damage (freezer burn) is the main problem with the long term freezing of "fresh meat" and the vacuum packaging should prevent that, assuming the vacuum packing is done correctly using unpermeable Cryovac type materials.
imho.
:)

Keep them "loose" mousees Vacuum packed all the time
http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5488&highlight=vacuum;)
 
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