wikkedkornman
demi-god
JTGoff69 said:
yes they do. so does DHL.
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Hypo Bloodreds and Hets
- Thread starter mike panic
- Start date
yes they do. so does DHL.
Neither UPS nor DHL will knowingly and openly accept live harmless snakes in shipments. You run the risk of having your package stopped in transit anywhere along the line if the contents is discovered, and your account cancelled immediately with them.
Secondly, raising hell with the ONLY door to door shipper that we can legally and openly ship live harmless snakes through is probably not in everyone's best interests. Wouldn't it be just ducky if FedEx decided to join UPS and DHL with their prohibition on live snakes? Gee, that sure would make things better, wouldn't it?
Thirdly, please do not use the photo gallery section as an alternate sales platform on this site.
Secondly, raising hell with the ONLY door to door shipper that we can legally and openly ship live harmless snakes through is probably not in everyone's best interests. Wouldn't it be just ducky if FedEx decided to join UPS and DHL with their prohibition on live snakes? Gee, that sure would make things better, wouldn't it?
Thirdly, please do not use the photo gallery section as an alternate sales platform on this site.
mike panic
Member
I didnt mean to use it that way but asI looked back I guess you can say I did. I will raise hell as I see fit. Period. Just because its the only legal shipper we can deal with does not mean they can do whatever they want. If you wnat to let them get away with that type of behavior thats your business. I will not.Rich Z said:
mike panic said:
Unfortunately, until we have more options, WE have to take the high road and act professional and courteous. It goes MUCH further, and doesn't wind up making enemies out of a company we all happen to need right now. WE have no other choices as far as door to door shipping is concerned. Maybe you are quite willing to cut your own nose off to spite your face, but some of us are not willing to join you and would appreciate your not inadvertently lopping off our noses at the same time.
mike panic said:
I believe there is a right way and a wrong way to go about getting things resolved when issues arise. Personally and professionally, I do not believe your method is in the best interests of this entire industry. But that's just me, I guess.
TBurkeIII
TBurkeIII
i will have to come to mike's defense hear and say that where are we supposed to draw the line as account holders with a company. if they are not living up to the business standards that they were hired to do...something should be said or done about it. i agree with you Rich in the fact that it is pretty much all we have but, that does not mean we cant hold our standards as high because we have a fear of losing them as a company. if we see this situation on a more regular basis what should we do if not complain about it. what if those snakes were $10,000 or $20,000? then what. most importantly though, i would expect the same amount from them weather it was a garter snake or a "solid gold" snake. and not have the crap shoot of a send out hoping my animals make it there.
mike panic
Member
Rich Z said:
You know what Rich, you're wrong. And I dont need to be told whats the right way to do things and the wrong way to do things. I have a lot of respect for you as a cornsnake breeder and if you want to give me advice about breeding cornsnakes fine, I'll accept that with open arms. But I certainly dont need to be told the way I handled a business transaction is wrong. And I definately dont need to be told on how to be courteous and professional, LOL. As a matter of fact, Im pretty sure that I deal and have dealt with more people than most. Anyway, you have to get on people now and then to wake them up. Maybe with your wealth you can afford to zip $800.00 in dead snakes to customers left and right but I cant. Raising hell means just that, it doenst mean I threw a fireball threw the front window. And after both incidents, I received several apologies in person via the phone and by letter. If I thought it was right I would disclose then name of the person I sent the snakes to and he would tell you how outragous FED EX's professionalisim was. My hope are that he reads this and tells his side of the story.
mike panic said:
Sorry Mike, but in my book, the above statement you made does not give me much indication that you acted in a professional manner. Maybe some people interpreted it otherwise, but I took it at face value. I don't know Mike, maybe you could have "made such a scene over there it wasnt even funny" and still acted professionally. I guess it is possible. But I'd be interested in seeing such a performance that could walk that line myself.
Maybe it does give you some short term satisfaction acting in such a manner and getting some gratification from it, but we have to look at the long haul in this. We start getting a bunch of people "making a scene" about their live animal shipments, because they believe that this is the correct manner to get things accomplished, that percolates up to FedEx corporate and they may just decide that they don't need to have to deal with the "scene makers" for such an insignificant portion of their business. And don't even try to tell me that this couldn't happen. If you have one percent of your business giving you eighty percent of the complaints and headaches, just what do you think may be the outcome of that?
No, sorry, I just disagree. You can be effective and get things resolved and accomplished without making an "in your face" scene emotionally with the people you are having a discussion with. And I do believe I am well within my rights to suggest that someone act in a more responsible, farther thinking, manner when their actions can affect mine, and a lot of other people's, business. I am sorry you apparently cannot see this perspective.
And if anyone is thinking I am just a "turn your other cheek" kind of guy when it comes to screw ups, well you don't know me very well. But I do believe that "making a scene" at the FedEx facility is not the best way to resolve this sort of issue. Yeah, I have had some screwups here and there with shippers all down the line. But I have never had a problem getting things resolved satisfactorily by getting the people at the other end WANTING to help me because I treated them like human beings.
mike panic
Member
No?..... then what do you do? Write a well mannered, tounge in cheek type of letter that magically gets your point across and your lost money refunded as well? Come on give me a break. You're right we dont agree. Again, you may think you're right but I think you're wrong. And I guess as I said, you can take the hit. I refuse to do so under those circumstances. If it were simply a late delivery or something understandable fine, but it wasnt. Anyway as I said earlier, I will argue my case and /or raise hell as I see fit. If you dont like it , I hear ya. I'll make a note.Rich Z said:
mike panic said:
Actually, I guess you would be surprised at how effective that can be, Mike. I have just found that it is much easier and more effective, not to mention good diplomacy all around, to get people to WANT to help you, rather then FORCING them to help you just to shut you the hell up.
mike panic
Member
Again with the mother goose stuff, LOL. This is what I find insulting Rich. Pure and simple. The deal Im trying to tell you is, you do it your way, I do it my way. It doesnt make you right, just different. I happen to think your way doesnt work or hasnt at least for me but I WOULD NEVER EVER EVEN CONSIDER doing what you did in this thread. Never! But when your Rich Zuchowski, I guess you do as you please. So we are full circle again, you feel Im wrong, I feel you're wrong...yadayadayadayada. Again, perhaps you think I was recently hatched out and I am looking at the big blue world for the first time. Although I'm sure you'll never admit it, if you read some of your own statments, you'll see(if you can tuck that ego away for a few moments) that you come across as being the great wise man up in the sky. Listen Rich, you know a great deal about snakes, no doubt about it, hands down. I only wish I knew what you know(if I did I would be far more humble about it thats for sure) but when it comes to other topics, it may do you good to remember that you're not any different then anyone else. Lets keep it at that. I am aware that you will have last word and I respectfully hand you the stage but remember what I said because there are an increasing number of people out there who feel the same way. They may never tell you but believe me when I tell you, your slipping brother.Rich Z said:
wikkedkornman
demi-god
sometimes "niceness" gets you nowhere. it is possible to "make a scene" and still be respectful. mike had every right to be pissed. it sounds to me like he tried being nice, but when the delivery guy refused to deliver, mike "snapped". understandably so. sometimes you have to be firm so people know you mean business.
i'm not too sure what DHL's actual guidelines are,all i know is my local DHL has shipped snakes for me, and known that it was snakes they were shipping.
i'm not too sure what DHL's actual guidelines are,all i know is my local DHL has shipped snakes for me, and known that it was snakes they were shipping.
Just a wild guess on my part, but just from the statements Mike has made within this one thread, I seriously doubt he made a "scene" and still remained respectful. He is obviously still not got his blood pressure under control, so I can only imagine what his "scene" was like with FedEx. My statements were in the hopes that people corresponding with a company that basically holds nearly all the cards, as far as we are concerned, with us being able to ship door to door with a common carrier would be a bit circumspect about their attitudes. I am sorry that it has apparently fallen on deaf ears, and Mr. Panichi chooses to broaden his attack attitude to include attacking me personally as well as FedEx in this discussion.
With that being said, Mike, if you wish to continue with your personal attacks and snipes at me, please go elsewhere. I tried to have a professional discussion with you here, in this thread where you obviously were inviting comments about your shipping problem, but you obviously are not interested in that level of discussion. So in the future, if you feel you want to rant about ANYTHING at all, and then spit your venom at anyone who happens to disagree with you, don't do it here.
I'm sure that will piss you off as well, but that's life I guess.
With that being said, Mike, if you wish to continue with your personal attacks and snipes at me, please go elsewhere. I tried to have a professional discussion with you here, in this thread where you obviously were inviting comments about your shipping problem, but you obviously are not interested in that level of discussion. So in the future, if you feel you want to rant about ANYTHING at all, and then spit your venom at anyone who happens to disagree with you, don't do it here.
I'm sure that will piss you off as well, but that's life I guess.
SODERBERGD
Active member
Mike . . .
I know you're hurt about this, but I'm rather shocked you're taking this position. Actually, it's not that you're taking this position, but that you are being so rude to Rich for giving some sane advice AND otherwise ignoring good common sense about the consequences of your actions. His opinion in this situation parallels mine and anyone that cares about the future of this industry should also side with Rich's obviously good sense about this.
Me? I don't ship orders that expensive unless weather conditions are perfect. I use Delta Dash for orders in inclimate weather. That's neither here nor there, but wanted to first say that "perhaps" the weather was less than ideal for an order of that magnitude. Thousands of my customers will tell you I'm relatively fearless when it comes to shipping. I see today it's supposed to be 127 in Death Valley, CA so I'll turn down my Death Valley customers today, but I don't bat an eye at shipping to Arizona in August and Alaska in December. Like you, I pack for the weather, B U T we all know that won't help us if a package gets misdirected or delayed for any other reason. In short, one of my unofficial prerequisites for shipping is that if I can't live with the potential of delays negatively affecting the outcome of a shipment, I don't ship. OR I ship via Delta Dash if they don't have a heat or cold embargo in force. Fed Ex is so good, I am rarely disappointed.
The real crux of this is different from the statements above. The real meat and potatoes of this debate is that (unless I'm misinformed), you signed a contract with Fed Ex when you became a certified reptile shipper that you would NEVER file a claim. They make it crystal clear to me that if a package is late, damaged, destroyed or lost, they will do nothing to compensate me. IMO, it's morally wrong to do that, but the time to argue with them was before you signed the contract. Personally, I did just that. They told me if I didn't intend to comply with their requirements, not to sign the contract. In that case of course I couldn't ship reptiles through them. In a nutshell, I agreed at that time that I'd "lump it" if anything went horribly wrong on an order. I have had to swallow my pride more than once over this contract I have with them, but I signed it and being a man of my word, (like it or not), I live with the conditions of this agreement between Don Soderberg and Federal Express. Just as I'd be upset if they changed the rules after the game started, we cannot expect to make them change the rules to suit us.
DISCLAIMER HERE: If you signed a different contract than I, I might be incorrect with my comments, but the one I signed said I had NO claim or compensation rights for any reason whatsoever. I'm content with that ONLY BECAUSE Fed Ex is the only door to door shipper allowing the shipping of reptiles.
Conclusion:
I virtually guarantee that if people keep arguing over situations like this to Fed Ex, there is a likelihood they will stop allowing the shipping of reptiles altogether. I feel so fortunate that we're allowed to do this legally as it is. I wouldn't dream of causing any waves over a loss like yours. Especially when I understood the rules going into the game. Like any game, you either accept the rules or don't play. I know you're devastated over this loss. I would be too, but try as I might, I'd be hard pressed to argue that they didn't warn me there would be no claims allowed.
I hope I haven't missed any important points in this thread, but if you're a certified reptile shipper with them and you signed the same agreement I did, this is not debatable. There is no claim to be made and therefore no arguments over the outcome. I see others siding with you that what happened was wrong. It shouldn't have happened and everyone wishes it hadn't, but it's a little late to be debating the agreement that said they would not be responsible for such losses.
Sometimes in life we have to make compromises whether we like it or not. Some feel it is unfair to have the restrictions and disclaimers Fed Ex does, but I'll take regulations and restrictions anyday over prohibition. If you are successful in your fight for compensation, Fed Ex knows they'll have to do the same thing for other certified shippers. This could eventually cause them to alter or altogether abandon their reptile shipping policy. Then, we're back to only being able to sell snakes at shows, sales and expos. I for one would have to consider folding up shop if that happened. Most of my customers will not pay $75.00 per box and drive to their airport to pick up one $50.00 snake. I'm getting too old to travel all over the country selling my snakes. That kind of expense would eventually drive the cost of corns up to unaffordable levels. OR the only way we'll be able to afford corns someday is to by them at the only place you'll be able to get them. Pet shops. Most of those places don't know the lineage of the ones they sell, don't know the sexes of the ones they sell and some don't even know what kind they are. I hope it never comes to that.
For the good of the entire industry, please, consider the consequences of your actions in this matter.
I know you're hurt about this, but I'm rather shocked you're taking this position. Actually, it's not that you're taking this position, but that you are being so rude to Rich for giving some sane advice AND otherwise ignoring good common sense about the consequences of your actions. His opinion in this situation parallels mine and anyone that cares about the future of this industry should also side with Rich's obviously good sense about this.
Me? I don't ship orders that expensive unless weather conditions are perfect. I use Delta Dash for orders in inclimate weather. That's neither here nor there, but wanted to first say that "perhaps" the weather was less than ideal for an order of that magnitude. Thousands of my customers will tell you I'm relatively fearless when it comes to shipping. I see today it's supposed to be 127 in Death Valley, CA so I'll turn down my Death Valley customers today, but I don't bat an eye at shipping to Arizona in August and Alaska in December. Like you, I pack for the weather, B U T we all know that won't help us if a package gets misdirected or delayed for any other reason. In short, one of my unofficial prerequisites for shipping is that if I can't live with the potential of delays negatively affecting the outcome of a shipment, I don't ship. OR I ship via Delta Dash if they don't have a heat or cold embargo in force. Fed Ex is so good, I am rarely disappointed.
The real crux of this is different from the statements above. The real meat and potatoes of this debate is that (unless I'm misinformed), you signed a contract with Fed Ex when you became a certified reptile shipper that you would NEVER file a claim. They make it crystal clear to me that if a package is late, damaged, destroyed or lost, they will do nothing to compensate me. IMO, it's morally wrong to do that, but the time to argue with them was before you signed the contract. Personally, I did just that. They told me if I didn't intend to comply with their requirements, not to sign the contract. In that case of course I couldn't ship reptiles through them. In a nutshell, I agreed at that time that I'd "lump it" if anything went horribly wrong on an order. I have had to swallow my pride more than once over this contract I have with them, but I signed it and being a man of my word, (like it or not), I live with the conditions of this agreement between Don Soderberg and Federal Express. Just as I'd be upset if they changed the rules after the game started, we cannot expect to make them change the rules to suit us.
DISCLAIMER HERE: If you signed a different contract than I, I might be incorrect with my comments, but the one I signed said I had NO claim or compensation rights for any reason whatsoever. I'm content with that ONLY BECAUSE Fed Ex is the only door to door shipper allowing the shipping of reptiles.
Conclusion:
I virtually guarantee that if people keep arguing over situations like this to Fed Ex, there is a likelihood they will stop allowing the shipping of reptiles altogether. I feel so fortunate that we're allowed to do this legally as it is. I wouldn't dream of causing any waves over a loss like yours. Especially when I understood the rules going into the game. Like any game, you either accept the rules or don't play. I know you're devastated over this loss. I would be too, but try as I might, I'd be hard pressed to argue that they didn't warn me there would be no claims allowed.
I hope I haven't missed any important points in this thread, but if you're a certified reptile shipper with them and you signed the same agreement I did, this is not debatable. There is no claim to be made and therefore no arguments over the outcome. I see others siding with you that what happened was wrong. It shouldn't have happened and everyone wishes it hadn't, but it's a little late to be debating the agreement that said they would not be responsible for such losses.
Sometimes in life we have to make compromises whether we like it or not. Some feel it is unfair to have the restrictions and disclaimers Fed Ex does, but I'll take regulations and restrictions anyday over prohibition. If you are successful in your fight for compensation, Fed Ex knows they'll have to do the same thing for other certified shippers. This could eventually cause them to alter or altogether abandon their reptile shipping policy. Then, we're back to only being able to sell snakes at shows, sales and expos. I for one would have to consider folding up shop if that happened. Most of my customers will not pay $75.00 per box and drive to their airport to pick up one $50.00 snake. I'm getting too old to travel all over the country selling my snakes. That kind of expense would eventually drive the cost of corns up to unaffordable levels. OR the only way we'll be able to afford corns someday is to by them at the only place you'll be able to get them. Pet shops. Most of those places don't know the lineage of the ones they sell, don't know the sexes of the ones they sell and some don't even know what kind they are. I hope it never comes to that.
For the good of the entire industry, please, consider the consequences of your actions in this matter.
TBurkeIII
TBurkeIII
i agree with you don and it was well written...i think mike doesn't really have a problem with the contract nor the agreement. but the complete negligence on the part of the newly aquired driver by FedEx. he was downright TOLD by his home base to deliver the package at the proper time and decided not to do so. when he was finally good and ready he decided he was behind in his deliveries and wanted the reciever of the package to actually meet him in a freekin parking lot. ***that is what i believe to be unacceptable no matter how you twist or turn it. that would agrivate anyone escpecially when you are on the phone with them all day trying to get the package there, but ultimately have your hands tied because the guy behind the wheel is calling all the shots. although you did bring up good pionts Don i believe in this situation it goes way beyond the simple agreement with FedEx and its contract. i have done shipments WAY over that amount of money and have never had a problem, even overseas. the amount of money should not detemine if a package should be shipped or not but, if a driver who is that incompitant is behind the wheel i will definately worry a bit more now.
Joejr14
Grand Bubble Burster
Tom-
The problem is that since a contract was signed stating that you would not file a claim against Fed Ex due to a loss of snakes, it's irrelevant what the driver did, or did not do. He could have simply thrown them into the trash can and it wouldn't matter, since it's all covered under the no claim clause in the contract.
Now, if the contract had said something like, "You shall make no claim against Fed Ex unless due to company negligence" then Mike would have a big gripe. Clearly parading around in the truck all day ignoring what your boss is telling you to do is negligent, but there's simply no recourse in this situation.
I do agree with Don that if it was me in the situation I would have shipped via Delta Dash---especially with those temps. If I was the one recieving, I'd pony the extra $30 or whatever the cost and insist that they be shipped that way, even if conditions were perfect. The order was expensive enough that as a buyer I would have insisted, but that's just me.
Btw, your next post is #500. Congrats.
The problem is that since a contract was signed stating that you would not file a claim against Fed Ex due to a loss of snakes, it's irrelevant what the driver did, or did not do. He could have simply thrown them into the trash can and it wouldn't matter, since it's all covered under the no claim clause in the contract.
Now, if the contract had said something like, "You shall make no claim against Fed Ex unless due to company negligence" then Mike would have a big gripe. Clearly parading around in the truck all day ignoring what your boss is telling you to do is negligent, but there's simply no recourse in this situation.
I do agree with Don that if it was me in the situation I would have shipped via Delta Dash---especially with those temps. If I was the one recieving, I'd pony the extra $30 or whatever the cost and insist that they be shipped that way, even if conditions were perfect. The order was expensive enough that as a buyer I would have insisted, but that's just me.
Btw, your next post is #500. Congrats.
SODERBERGD
Active member
Well . . .
Acceptable losses. Nobody likes to see animals die. Nobody likes to lose money, but the loss of this shipment is not worth losing our rights to ship. While it is easy for me to say this fight with Fed Ex should be dropped, I prefer to look at the big picture. The health of the industry demands that from time to time, sacrifices have to be made. It's not right that if a package of flashlights arrives five minutes late, Fed Ex will refund the shipping cost, BUT if a package of snakes gets lost, they do nothing. I don't like that nor do I think it's fair, but it's "acceptable losses" to be able to legally ship reptiles door to door. The more ruckus, debating and publicity this gets, the more likely it is that Fed Ex will stop allowing this. Then, we're done. DHL and UPS don't allow reptiles and neither does USPS. How do we ship our reptiles then? Do we take the stance that "they can't get away with this" even if it stops them from allowing reptiles to be shipped by their company? If an army quits a battle just because one soldier is killed, they lose the war. We have to look at the big picture and that dictates that as unfair as this situation is/was, it's not worth losing our privaleges to ship reptiles.
After all the shippers have prohibited the shipping of reptiles, are we going to say, "at least Mike got an apology and refund. Now what am I going to do with all these baby corns I just produced?"?
Acceptable losses. Nobody likes to see animals die. Nobody likes to lose money, but the loss of this shipment is not worth losing our rights to ship. While it is easy for me to say this fight with Fed Ex should be dropped, I prefer to look at the big picture. The health of the industry demands that from time to time, sacrifices have to be made. It's not right that if a package of flashlights arrives five minutes late, Fed Ex will refund the shipping cost, BUT if a package of snakes gets lost, they do nothing. I don't like that nor do I think it's fair, but it's "acceptable losses" to be able to legally ship reptiles door to door. The more ruckus, debating and publicity this gets, the more likely it is that Fed Ex will stop allowing this. Then, we're done. DHL and UPS don't allow reptiles and neither does USPS. How do we ship our reptiles then? Do we take the stance that "they can't get away with this" even if it stops them from allowing reptiles to be shipped by their company? If an army quits a battle just because one soldier is killed, they lose the war. We have to look at the big picture and that dictates that as unfair as this situation is/was, it's not worth losing our privaleges to ship reptiles.
After all the shippers have prohibited the shipping of reptiles, are we going to say, "at least Mike got an apology and refund. Now what am I going to do with all these baby corns I just produced?"?
mike panic
Member
Don I agree with you
and I am fully aware of what I signed it and thats it. You're right It stinks, but its a fact of life and a nasty part of our hobby. You should all know this though(in case you go through the same thing)....Fed Ex did refund me $100.00 not including shipping because that is their refund limit of undeclared goods. Had I declared it, I had a good chance at receiving a full refund. I now declare the value on every shipment. That indicates that they acknowlege liability in this case. In fact they states it was their fault over the phone(even though we all know unless its on paper its nothing)and I received a personal apology from the manager in the Arizona office after we spoke at length via telephone. I assure you this would not have happened had I not made a stink. Everyones approach is different. For me or against me, I really appreciate everyones input here, two bad shipments in a row did in fact upset me and I made it known to FED EX. I will never back down from that no matter what! I said I made a scene and I did and I would absolutely do it again. I feel as though it was warranted. In the same way Rich refuses to allow someone to tell him he's wrong, I refuse to be instructed on how to talk to people or how to conduct myself. I have bent over backwards to make people happy. And I surely know how to speak to people. The difference is, I am humble. Why is it ok for Rich to tell me that I dont know how to speak to people or I dont conduct myself professionally but when I turn around and say(as one adult to another) I dont think your humble and you have a huge ego, and I think your take on this is wrong........then I'm attacking him. Why? Why is it ok for Rich to tell me that in life you get more flys with honey....but I cannot turn around and tell him that he needs to be grounded again. Why? Because he owns the website? Is that fair? Sorry, thats not me. I call it as I see it.
and I am fully aware of what I signed it and thats it. You're right It stinks, but its a fact of life and a nasty part of our hobby. You should all know this though(in case you go through the same thing)....Fed Ex did refund me $100.00 not including shipping because that is their refund limit of undeclared goods. Had I declared it, I had a good chance at receiving a full refund. I now declare the value on every shipment. That indicates that they acknowlege liability in this case. In fact they states it was their fault over the phone(even though we all know unless its on paper its nothing)and I received a personal apology from the manager in the Arizona office after we spoke at length via telephone. I assure you this would not have happened had I not made a stink. Everyones approach is different. For me or against me, I really appreciate everyones input here, two bad shipments in a row did in fact upset me and I made it known to FED EX. I will never back down from that no matter what! I said I made a scene and I did and I would absolutely do it again. I feel as though it was warranted. In the same way Rich refuses to allow someone to tell him he's wrong, I refuse to be instructed on how to talk to people or how to conduct myself. I have bent over backwards to make people happy. And I surely know how to speak to people. The difference is, I am humble. Why is it ok for Rich to tell me that I dont know how to speak to people or I dont conduct myself professionally but when I turn around and say(as one adult to another) I dont think your humble and you have a huge ego, and I think your take on this is wrong........then I'm attacking him. Why? Why is it ok for Rich to tell me that in life you get more flys with honey....but I cannot turn around and tell him that he needs to be grounded again. Why? Because he owns the website? Is that fair? Sorry, thats not me. I call it as I see it.
mike panic
Member
Or maybe they will say, we were wrong on this one. Lets get it right next time. I dont need to tell you Don, Money talks. These people only see dollar signs. I know how much I spend on shipping in a year and I'm sure you and Rich and others spend triple that amount. Restassured, they know it too. Not because its snakes in the box but because Mr. Panichi or Mr Soderberg spent $10,000.00 with us this summer and we dont want to lose his business. Pure and simple. The squeaky wheel gets the oil. There is no exception here. It gets applied to anything in business and this is a business.SODERBERGD said:
Mike, read the entire thread again and tell me who exactly it is with the chip on their shoulder here.
Are you seriously suggesting that you have some right to speak to anyone in any manner you care to and I do not have the right to disagree with you in a discussion on this forum? Who wrote those rules, please?
And who exactly is it in this discussion who is REFUSING to admit the possibility that he may be wrong? You are coming across such that you believe that your opinion is unassailable and cannot be debated. I just disagree, and pointed out to you that there is a different perspective of this that would be wise to consider. You know, the "bigger picture" thing that we do sometimes have to consider beyond our own personal concerns.
Did you or did you not start this discussion (inappropriately in the photo gallery, no less) with the expectation of comments? Did you seriously believe that your point of view was the only one possible for everyone to take? I think you need to take an objective view of this thread and see who exactly it is that needs to be "grounded" with reality. I pointed out to you that I disagree with your actions, and you came at me with quite a bit of an attitude attached to your replies. I guess you have your reasons, but quite frankly, I don't see where such an attitude is really necessary in a conversation like this.
Are you seriously suggesting that you have some right to speak to anyone in any manner you care to and I do not have the right to disagree with you in a discussion on this forum? Who wrote those rules, please?
And who exactly is it in this discussion who is REFUSING to admit the possibility that he may be wrong? You are coming across such that you believe that your opinion is unassailable and cannot be debated. I just disagree, and pointed out to you that there is a different perspective of this that would be wise to consider. You know, the "bigger picture" thing that we do sometimes have to consider beyond our own personal concerns.
Did you or did you not start this discussion (inappropriately in the photo gallery, no less) with the expectation of comments? Did you seriously believe that your point of view was the only one possible for everyone to take? I think you need to take an objective view of this thread and see who exactly it is that needs to be "grounded" with reality. I pointed out to you that I disagree with your actions, and you came at me with quite a bit of an attitude attached to your replies. I guess you have your reasons, but quite frankly, I don't see where such an attitude is really necessary in a conversation like this.