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I just put 3 pinkies in the freezer *cries*

JustineNYC said:
What situation is that, the apocalypse?

We're not pretending finding yourself in an extreme situation (survival of the fittest) where you are unable to purchase food is the same as voluntarily owning snakes and voluntarily choosing to purchase pre killed are we?
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could be the apocalypse or it could be something as simple as getting stranded in the woods or lost at sea

the point is that just because someone else killed your food for you doesn't mean you don't have blood on your hands

do you people cry when you squash an ant or swat a mosquito?
:sobstory:
 
JustineNYC said:
With that rational everyone in the world who enters a supermarket and ventures down the meat aisle is a hypocrite then.

IMO, Id rather be a hypocrite then a murderer......not taking away from anyone else who chooses to take that road, raise their own feed.....thats fine....its not for me though. Call me sensitive....I can sleep at night being a hypocrite.
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So you're calling people who breed mice murderers who shouldn't sleep good at night?

If it was easier going out, finding a cow, killing it and then making dinner I'm sure alot of people would do that rather then going to the supermarket. It's not hypocritical going to the market to buy meat, it's easiest and cheapest.
 
A few things...

1. I think you guys are super spoilt to be able to get frozens! Buying frozen food and having it dropped off doesn't exist hear, as a matter of fact, I have only recently been able to get frozens at petstores here so been prekilling prey since I first got my snakes.

2. I agree with Janine, my mice are far healthier than any I have bought from petshops. I know exactly what they are fed and therefore exactly what goes into my snake. This is a huge advantage! :)

3. I get very annoyed when people moan about me (humanely) killing mice for my snakes or for the freezer and then sit down to a steak dinner that very same night or have a beef hamburger for lunch.
 
Velvet said:
A few things...

3. I get very annoyed when people moan about me (humanely) killing mice for my snakes or for the freezer and then sit down to a steak dinner that very same night or have a beef hamburger for lunch.
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I dont think anyone on here has criticized anyone for breeding and killing their own mice. I think the general comment has just been certain people (including myself) saying that 'its not for them'. Doesnt mean we think it is wrong, just that we have frozen mice readily and cheapily available, and we would prefer to purchase them in this way, than to raise them and kill them ourselves. I have full respect for people that do this as I think it is a good thing to know where you snake food has come from. But, its not something I would want to do.
With regards to the 'supermarket' comments, I myself am a keen 'meateater', but this doesnt mean I want to kill a chicken myself, and because of that, I wouldnt criticize the person that does kill it. Instead, we pay inflated prices that cover the cost of the 'chicken', its food, its upkeep, and any other costs incurred during its life, its the same when you buy anything, including frozen mice. I personally dont think you can call someone a hypocrite for doing this, and if we are getting that petty, you could say that 'you eat potatos, but you dont want to work on a potato farm', and thats just ridiculous, but its the exact same thing!!
As I step off my soap box, I would like to finish with - I think its great that people breed their own mice, and I also think its great that people who dont want to do this have an alternative option with frozen mice.

Sam

0.0.1 Ghost (Yet to be named)
 
I'm sorry, I wasn't referring to snake people or anyone on this forum, I was referring to non-snake, "outside" people. I am sorry, I should've made that clear in my post.
 
Velvet said:
I'm sorry, I wasn't referring to snake people or anyone on this forum, I was referring to non-snake, "outside" people. I am sorry, I should've made that clear in my post.
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You're cool Meg. I have absolutely NO problem with people raising their own food and humanely dispatching them.

I DO have a problem with people calling me a hypocrite because I won't do the same.

And I totally agree with you about being spoiled having frozen mice here. But then, I LOVE being spoiled :)
 
I posted early on in this thread, I believe I give my mice great conditions for living and look for ways to improve. After my first post I started observing the mice a little closer a realized what a complex society they form, moving bedding and building burrows... Because of this observation I have a real appreciation of my mice.
I was raised to respect all living things and I was also taught if you can't kill it you shouldn't eat it, you shouldn't kill it if you don't plan to eat it. Now I'm not saying everyone needs to go out and start a farm and slaughter their own meat, but if you had to, could you? Because otherwises you may sleep at night but what about the butcher (it was made mention by someone "I can sleep at night"). When we had a farm we named everything among others we had 'T-bone, pork chop,....
I don't think they are just mice, I don't play with them and walk around with one on my shoulder, but I do make sure they get good care and appreciate they are food for my snakes. JMHO susan
 
starsevol said:
I DO have a problem with people calling me a hypocrite because I won't do the same.
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Wrong. I called you a hypocrite for saying something that I translated to "I can sleep at night because I buy frozen. When buying frozen I'm not responsible for the mouse dying, because I couldn't bear killing it."

Even when buying frozen you are directly responsible for it dying, by supporting the industry, thereby it's no "better" buying them that way. If you don't want to kill the mouse yourself, then that's fine. Just don't act like people who breed their own do so without a heart, all while putting yourself up on a pedestal for buying frozen.
 
azzagoth said:
Wrong. I called you a hypocrite for saying something that I translated to "I can sleep at night because I buy frozen. When buying frozen I'm not responsible for the mouse dying, because I couldn't bear killing it."

Even when buying frozen you are directly responsible for it dying, by supporting the industry, thereby it's no "better" buying them that way. If you don't want to kill the mouse yourself, then that's fine. Just don't act like people who breed their own do so without a heart, all while putting yourself up on a pedestal for buying frozen.
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I'm not the one who made the comment about "sleeping at night". I also NEVER said that people who breed their own have no heart (where are you getting this stuff anyway? Guilty conscience maybe?). Basically I said that I will NEVER take a live animal and made it dead and that people who INTENTIONALLY mistreat animals and do NOT care if their euthanation methods are humane deserve a special place in hell. And please show me where I put myself up on a pedestal, anyway?

Of COURSE I support "the industry". DUH. But the mice I buy are dead before I buy them. They would have died whether I bought them or not. Their lives were not snuffed out especially for me, on my orders or by my hand. For some of us, that's just easier. Deal with it.
Like I said before, Supermarkets and the Gourmet Rodent are there for a reason.
 
starsevol said:
...But the mice I buy are dead before I buy them. They would have died whether I bought them or not. Their lives were not snuffed out especially for me, on my orders or by my hand. ...
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lol
this part sounds an awful lot like the meth dealers that say "well if they didn't get it from me they would just get it from someone else"

if that sort of attitude clears your conscience and allows you to sleep at night then more power to you
 
Alien Zulu said:
lol
this part sounds an awful lot like the meth dealers that say "well if they didn't get it from me they would just get it from someone else"

if that sort of attitude clears your conscience and allows you to sleep at night then more power to you
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I know nothing of meth dealers, tyvm. This analogy would make alot more sense if buying frozen mice was illegal and ruined the lives of others.
We all do what we are capable of. We do what we can live with. I have kept snakes for over 12 years now and never would have gotten my first if frozen mice were not available to me. I have a boatload of respect for people who raise their own and humanely do what they have to do. They are made of stronger stuff than I am.
That said I despise the type of person who doesn't care one way or another if the death they orchestrate is humane because "itsjusta". And you know full well the kind of person I am talking about.
I shouldn't even have to explain this, but apparently I do.
 
starsevol said:
I shouldn't even have to explain this, but apparently I do.
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I agree with you, you shouldn't have to explain, no one should. We all operate on different levels (not the word i like, but can't think of a dif word) some have no problem with raising food and killing it to feed, some do.
I guess I need to explain as it wasn't you, but someone did make the remark about "sleeping at night," which implies people who do raise animals for food shouldn't sleep well because they kill animals.
My belief and my belief alone is if I can't kill it I shouldn't eat it, I repeat this is my belief. My opinion is many of us have multiple carnivorous animals dogs, cats, snakes... we can't all raise the food for these animals. If I can buy it in a can I will, if I can raise it I will. If all you can do is buy it in a can you have every right to without explanation, just please don't make me feel sleepless because I do (not aimed at starvesol). susan
 
susang said:
I agree with you, you shouldn't have to explain, no one should. We all operate on different levels (not the word i like, but can't think of a dif word) some have no problem with raising food and killing it to feed, some do.
I guess I need to explain as it wasn't you, but someone did make the remark about "sleeping at night," which implies people who do raise animals for food shouldn't sleep well because they kill animals.
My belief and my belief alone is if I can't kill it I shouldn't eat it, I repeat this is my belief. My opinion is many of us have multiple carnivorous animals dogs, cats, snakes... we can't all raise the food for these animals. If I can buy it in a can I will, if I can raise it I will. If all you can do is buy it in a can you have every right to without explanation, just please don't make me feel sleepless because I do (not aimed at starvesol). susan
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Thank you Susang :)

Humane people have no reason to be sleepless, and inhumane people have no conscience, so they sleep just fine.
 
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I'm so sorry but I have a question, not aimed at anyone. Has anyone seen how mice are commercially raised, I haven't. I have however worked on dairy farm, where pigs and veal calves were also raised. I have been to stockyards, slaughter houses, commercial egg farms, and chicken farms. These animals are not treated well are crowded in, forced to lay more eggs in a day then they would on their own. I don't drink milk and don't eat eggs anymore. I eat meat but if I think about it I start to gag. So I don't eat much meat anymore, because I don't farm anymore. I guess I know my answer about the way commercial mice are raised also, I'm glad I raise my own mice, susan
 
The guy I get my frozen mice from gets his frozens from NY, and also has his own. I can tell that my frozens are humanely killed with gas but I don't know how they are raised.

The guy I get them from uses pine (which is not a great bedding) for his live mice, and they are a bit crowded. But they ALWAYS have fresh food and water and the cages are cleaned regularly.
 
well, I am sure you Can guess the answer... because the one I seen makes me real hesitant to buy frozen online... I really prefer to raise my own.
 
Alien Zulu said:
could be the apocalypse or it could be something as simple as getting stranded in the woods or lost at sea

the point is that just because someone else killed your food for you doesn't mean you don't have blood on your hands

do you people cry when you squash an ant or swat a mosquito?
:sobstory:
Click to expand...


And just because someone chooses to kill their own food does not make them better then I.
 
susang said:
I agree with you, you shouldn't have to explain, no one should. We all operate on different levels (not the word i like, but can't think of a dif word) some have no problem with raising food and killing it to feed, some do.
I guess I need to explain as it wasn't you, but someone did make the remark about "sleeping at night," which implies people who do raise animals for food shouldn't sleep well because they kill animals.
My belief and my belief alone is if I can't kill it I shouldn't eat it, I repeat this is my belief. My opinion is many of us have multiple carnivorous animals dogs, cats, snakes... we can't all raise the food for these animals. If I can buy it in a can I will, if I can raise it I will. If all you can do is buy it in a can you have every right to without explanation, just please don't make me feel sleepless because I do (not aimed at starvesol). susan
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I am the one who made the comment about "Sleeping at night" As to that "IMPLYING" people who do raise animals for food shouldn't sleep well because they kill animals.....I dont know where the heck youd get that, in fact I specified

.not taking away from anyone else who chooses to take that road, raise their own feed.....thats fine....its not for me though
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If you read what I said, I said "I can sleep being a hypocrite"

I thought it was really crappy that hypocrite word was being thrown around....like someone is better then the rest of us who choose not to kill our own feed. Someone even went as far to throw a situation out there where "there are no supermarkets" a tad bit extreme from voluntarily owning snakes no?


For future reference, i dont imply things, if I feel people who kill their own feed shouldnt be able to sleep at night, Ill say it.
 
Ok you are correct about your quote Justine, you also said you'ld rather be a hypocrite than a murderer. Which could perhaps be lumped into one phrase "people who raise animlas are murderers and shouldn't sleep at night". I'm just taking a step back and looking at this whole thing. I don't feel any of us is better than the other for our views on raising our own food. I don't want you to feel bad because you can't kill an animal. Before I raised my own mice I had to get a feeder rat hopper, I couldn't kill it asked the guy at the pet shop so do it, not because I couldn't kill it, I hate rats, can't stand to touch them, they scare me to near death. The final straw to me raising my own feeders.
After this thread started I really did sit back and start watching my mice. They are cute and funny and very good parents. I won't buy anymore feeders because of all the reasons I stated before, so I am left with the problem kill mice or get rid of snakes, I like both. For me and just for me it would be hypocritical to ask someone else to kill mice for me, again this is only me. You have to do what you have to for your snakes. We both sleep at night and so does the butcher.
 
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