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Is it ok to house two snakes together?
- Thread starter beethoven
- Start date
rolandslf
New member
Co-Habitation
I have 3 adult male corns who live together in a 50 gal. viv.
They have lived together for 3 years with no problems healthwise, appetitewise or anywise.
The only time I split them up is for the 2 weeks when they are paired with my females. After the deed is done I put them back together till next season.
Ciao
I have 3 adult male corns who live together in a 50 gal. viv.
They have lived together for 3 years with no problems healthwise, appetitewise or anywise.
The only time I split them up is for the 2 weeks when they are paired with my females. After the deed is done I put them back together till next season.
Ciao
JustineNYC
New member
Snakes are cannibals. I dont even know why this gets discussed.
Jimmy Johnson
Old Timer
well, since it has been bumped
why not re-post
I feel it is best to keep snakes separate.
I know a lot of people can and do keep multiple snakes together without problems. I just feel the possible drawbacks need to be expressed.
When a person gets the experience and knowledge of each individual snake in his care, and wants to try co-habitation, it is up to them. They just need to be careful and observant enough to see and understand the subtle signs of stress in their snakes.
There can be definite drawbacks in co-habitation.
If one snake becomes sick there is a very good likelihood the other/others will get sick as well.
It may also take a while (usually too long) to determine which one is the sick one.
If one regurgitates its food you won't know which one unless you happen to get lucky and see it.
If one has a problem stool you won't know which one. Once again one may have a problem and by the time you figure out which one the other/others could end up with the same problem.
Although this is only a slight possibility, it is still a possibility and has been know to happen... one snake could eat the other. Cannibalism can and does occur with corn snakes. The smell of a prey item could trigger one snake to eat the other. Or simple hunger accompanied by a ready food source could do the same. Although uncommon, it has happened and is a possibility.
Another possibility is unwanted pregnancy. A female may become gravid and you may not have the knowledge, desire or ability to incubate the eggs, care for the hatchlings and find homes for them. With hatchlings comes added responsibility.
A lot of people rationalize by saying, "I will just put two males or two females together". That can work but mistakes can be made, especially with hatchlings. You could easily end up with a male and female.
There is also a chance of a female breeding too young or too small and becoming egg-bound. Although uncommon, it is a possibility and can happen.
With multiple snakes in the same enclosure you could easily loose them all if there happens to be an avenue of escape. Instead of losing one you could loose two or more depending on how many you decide to place together.
With multiple snakes in an enclosure, one or all of them could be stressed by the presence of the others. Stress can cause a drop in appetite and other health problems as well.
People will put multiple snakes in an enclosure and ask why one isn't eating.
When they are told it is probably due to stress caused by the other snake, the response is almost always the same "they like each other, they are always under the same hide together". Well this probably just means "that" hide or area of the tank has the optimum conditions they are looking for.
Snakes do not LIKE each other or ENJOY each other’s company.
There is no capacity for snakes to "like" or "enjoy".
I have kept multiple snakes together, without problems, but have made a choice to keep them separate. There are NO good arguments as to why you SHOULD keep them together but there ARE several good arguments as to why you SHOULD NOT.
So, in my opinion, although people do it successfully I just don't think it is worth the risk.
If you decide to keep multiple snakes together, watch closely for any signs of appetite loss, shedding problems, regurgitation or “personality” changes. These could all be signs of stress.
You would also want to feed them in separate containers and give them an hour or so before putting them back together.
My 2 cents
why not re-post
I feel it is best to keep snakes separate.
I know a lot of people can and do keep multiple snakes together without problems. I just feel the possible drawbacks need to be expressed.
When a person gets the experience and knowledge of each individual snake in his care, and wants to try co-habitation, it is up to them. They just need to be careful and observant enough to see and understand the subtle signs of stress in their snakes.
There can be definite drawbacks in co-habitation.
If one snake becomes sick there is a very good likelihood the other/others will get sick as well.
It may also take a while (usually too long) to determine which one is the sick one.
If one regurgitates its food you won't know which one unless you happen to get lucky and see it.
If one has a problem stool you won't know which one. Once again one may have a problem and by the time you figure out which one the other/others could end up with the same problem.
Although this is only a slight possibility, it is still a possibility and has been know to happen... one snake could eat the other. Cannibalism can and does occur with corn snakes. The smell of a prey item could trigger one snake to eat the other. Or simple hunger accompanied by a ready food source could do the same. Although uncommon, it has happened and is a possibility.
Another possibility is unwanted pregnancy. A female may become gravid and you may not have the knowledge, desire or ability to incubate the eggs, care for the hatchlings and find homes for them. With hatchlings comes added responsibility.
A lot of people rationalize by saying, "I will just put two males or two females together". That can work but mistakes can be made, especially with hatchlings. You could easily end up with a male and female.
There is also a chance of a female breeding too young or too small and becoming egg-bound. Although uncommon, it is a possibility and can happen.
With multiple snakes in the same enclosure you could easily loose them all if there happens to be an avenue of escape. Instead of losing one you could loose two or more depending on how many you decide to place together.
With multiple snakes in an enclosure, one or all of them could be stressed by the presence of the others. Stress can cause a drop in appetite and other health problems as well.
People will put multiple snakes in an enclosure and ask why one isn't eating.
When they are told it is probably due to stress caused by the other snake, the response is almost always the same "they like each other, they are always under the same hide together". Well this probably just means "that" hide or area of the tank has the optimum conditions they are looking for.
Snakes do not LIKE each other or ENJOY each other’s company.
There is no capacity for snakes to "like" or "enjoy".
I have kept multiple snakes together, without problems, but have made a choice to keep them separate. There are NO good arguments as to why you SHOULD keep them together but there ARE several good arguments as to why you SHOULD NOT.
So, in my opinion, although people do it successfully I just don't think it is worth the risk.
If you decide to keep multiple snakes together, watch closely for any signs of appetite loss, shedding problems, regurgitation or “personality” changes. These could all be signs of stress.
You would also want to feed them in separate containers and give them an hour or so before putting them back together.
My 2 cents
zeeboismysnake
Rain rain go away...
I agree with Flagg. For me it's more of a "No, I'm not ignorant enough to try it" then a "No, I've had problems" vote. Yes, I know my sig says I only have one corn, but I am getting two more very soon and am definetly not housing them together.
we have 1 female amel and 1 female snow that we house together, the only problem Ive had so far is that they were nervous when first put togther and now they seem to have grown attached to each other.
I personally think houseing seprate is a good idea for all the feeding/health problems, but on the other hand snakes are animals, and I believe all animals (even loners) get lonely.
Its a personall choice and you have to be ready to suffer the consiquences and/or seperate them at the first sign of a problem. I voted for if they have the right attitude.
I personally think houseing seprate is a good idea for all the feeding/health problems, but on the other hand snakes are animals, and I believe all animals (even loners) get lonely.
Its a personall choice and you have to be ready to suffer the consiquences and/or seperate them at the first sign of a problem. I voted for if they have the right attitude.
Roy Munson
New member
Snakes don't form emotional attachments.LeeC said:
You may believe it, but it's not true. Snakes are solitary creatures. There are only two situations where a snake would seek other snakes. 1) Breeding (of course). 2)Wintering (to conserve heat and limit dehydration).
Roy Munson said:
how can you know for sure? do your snakes talk to you? I think just because for the most part they're solitary creatures, doesnt mean that they dont get lonely. We as humans will never know. I like to think that they do get lonely, so I house my 2 together, and If they start not getting along ill seperate them.
zeeboismysnake
Rain rain go away...
You're right, we don't understand what our snakes are thinking. Which is probably why it's so easy to anthopomorphize them. Corn snakes don't form an emotional attatchment to each other because they don't experience emotions like we do, if at all. At the very most the snakes might get used to each other and be stressed if their environment is changed. Corn snakes are solitary creatures and their brains aren't wired to want or even like the presence of another snake (the exceptions, as Dean said, being during breeding and hibernation).
I'm just wondering, but what would you consider not getting along?
I'm just wondering, but what would you consider not getting along?
Fizzlefry22
what you really need is..
We can't. We can make this 'conclusion' based upon the countless hours of observation that herptologists have made of snakes in their 'natural' environments.LeeC said:
Do your snakes talk to you?
How can you be certain they aren't getting along? Do you have a degree in Snake-psychology?
:cheers:
not getting along for me is one snake getting scared of the other ones touch, or if they refuse meals and/or regurg. bad shedding, etc.
my snakes actually group together, like when we take them out to play on our bed, they crawl to each other and rest their heads on the other, like lovers... except they're both female lol. they share hides (when multiple are avalibe at the same temp) They share a 20 gallon viv, with aspen bedding, and when we take them out they're usually curled up together under the aspen.
I know people say they go to the same spot because it might be the best place in the viv for sunning, etc, but in our viv theirs plenty of hides and same temp under the aspen. So I think they just like each other...
or maybe im just optimistic.
my snakes actually group together, like when we take them out to play on our bed, they crawl to each other and rest their heads on the other, like lovers... except they're both female lol. they share hides (when multiple are avalibe at the same temp) They share a 20 gallon viv, with aspen bedding, and when we take them out they're usually curled up together under the aspen.
I know people say they go to the same spot because it might be the best place in the viv for sunning, etc, but in our viv theirs plenty of hides and same temp under the aspen. So I think they just like each other...
or maybe im just optimistic.
Jimmy Johnson
Old Timer
LeeC
well all I can say is do what you want.
Even if it means ignoring good sound advise given by people with more experience.
Even though this thread is a couple of years old, someone brought it back up so it seemed like a good time to remind new keepers of the possible drawbacks.
Do you use a temp gun and check every inch of your tank, even under the hides, to determine if the temps are exactly the same?
If they are the same, which I doubt, then you are already doing things wrong, there should be some kind of temperature gradient.
Have you checked the humidity thoughout the entire tank, even under the hides? I also doubt you have the capability to do this..
There could be a slight temperature and/or humidity difference under the particular hide they occupy.
As I stated earlier, snakes have no capacity to like or enjoy. They go to where conditions are optimum.
I see people make comments like "you don't know if they can like or love, how could you?"
well people have been studying the human brain and the brains of lesser animals for years and years. They CAN tell these things by brain size, brain structure and a number of other factors. It is simple science to the properly trained. The same as telling by the structure of an animals eyes wether or not they can see color or to how much of a degree they can discern different colors.
Like I said earlier, do what you want, they are yours, but without expressing the possible drawbacks a lot of us feel it is wrong to just simply recommend co-habitation, especially to new keepers.
Like I also said....and I challenge you to prove otherwise...there are good reasons as to why you SHOULD NOT house snakes together but there are NO good reasons as to why you SHOULD.
think about the beginner and what is best for them and their animals when offering advise. We want to help people start out under the best possible circumstances.
well all I can say is do what you want.
Even if it means ignoring good sound advise given by people with more experience.
Even though this thread is a couple of years old, someone brought it back up so it seemed like a good time to remind new keepers of the possible drawbacks.
Do you use a temp gun and check every inch of your tank, even under the hides, to determine if the temps are exactly the same?
If they are the same, which I doubt, then you are already doing things wrong, there should be some kind of temperature gradient.
Have you checked the humidity thoughout the entire tank, even under the hides? I also doubt you have the capability to do this..
There could be a slight temperature and/or humidity difference under the particular hide they occupy.
As I stated earlier, snakes have no capacity to like or enjoy. They go to where conditions are optimum.
I see people make comments like "you don't know if they can like or love, how could you?"
well people have been studying the human brain and the brains of lesser animals for years and years. They CAN tell these things by brain size, brain structure and a number of other factors. It is simple science to the properly trained. The same as telling by the structure of an animals eyes wether or not they can see color or to how much of a degree they can discern different colors.
Like I said earlier, do what you want, they are yours, but without expressing the possible drawbacks a lot of us feel it is wrong to just simply recommend co-habitation, especially to new keepers.
Like I also said....and I challenge you to prove otherwise...there are good reasons as to why you SHOULD NOT house snakes together but there are NO good reasons as to why you SHOULD.
think about the beginner and what is best for them and their animals when offering advise. We want to help people start out under the best possible circumstances.
JustineNYC
New member
Flagg said:
How bout 'No, not even going to endanger my snakes to try it'
I work in a local pet store, and I wasnt working there long before I realized they were housing their corns together. It broke my heart.....they were also practicing other no no's like feeding them in their units on aspen. It didnt matter though because their was pinkies lying there because no one was eating.
They have other snakes but the wall unit they house them in isnt large enough to co-house. I was there about a week before I got friendly with the "snake girl"....I went out and bought tupperware sets in the 99 cent store and showed them to the girl working in the reptile section. Basically this is a store run by 22 year olds, our boss is never in and he wouldnt notice the snakes thats for sure. I made holes in the lids, and small holes in the sides and took one corn from every unit and put it into the container. And then the container was put back into the housing unit......but at least they couldnt have contact that way. Now the 22 yr old who never had any knowledge on snakes doesnt let them come into contact with each other. And now, when customers come in and ask about corns, they also asked why they are separated by containers. IMO, thats where the problem lies. At the source of selling corns. Most people dont get snakes from breeders, they get them from pet stores. And most people do not come online and research, they ask the teenager in the pet store how to care for the animal. I can only affect what goes on in this particular store for the time I work there, but its something. Our corns are eating again, except now its my job. Everyone else is not so crazy about slicing mice open lol.
Snakes are cannibals, thats a fact. Anyone who knows this and houses them together, in my opinion ..if your going to endanger them like so you probably dont belong owning them altogether.
I would never chance the horrible feeling Id have if I came home and found a snake missing and the other snake with a big bulge in its belly.
Its not worth it........really. 10 gallon tanks are 12$.......
Now I'm not even going to attempt to fully slip into this topic, it's been discussed a lot lately which is a bit of a shock. My snakes are all in their own separate little houses, with separate water dishes and separate hides. Basically? They're all kept in the same room, the same general area, and you can tell which snake has what personality just watching them. I see my snakes with personalities yes. There's that group over here that I call the 'tail rattlers' that if you open the cage, you're asking to get tagged. Then there's the more sociable ones just because they've been handled more and have come to accept that if the lid comes off the cage and I'm not too busy, they're going to end up drug out of their hides and out into the open to either show off, or just let them explore a bit while I do whatever else I'm doing at the time.
So yes, I think each corn has their own personality, to a point. Now they aren't as developed as humans (thankfully, I'd hate to know what they'd say about how 'boring' their houses are or something :grin01: ), but I don't exactly believe that anything on our planet discovered thus far is as 'developed' as humans.
Snakes breed, they eat, they poop, they drink, and hide, and they sleep. That's the basic life of a snake. Survival is the key, in the wild they're afraid of being consumed by whatever that comes along (which could mean another snake). I've housed young corns together for awhile yes, but once they start getting bigger they get their own houses, just for the fact that its easier to monitor them that way. It's easier to see who shed when, which regurged, who soaked in the water dish...that sort of thing.
...Just my 2 cents. :shrugs:
So yes, I think each corn has their own personality, to a point. Now they aren't as developed as humans (thankfully, I'd hate to know what they'd say about how 'boring' their houses are or something :grin01: ), but I don't exactly believe that anything on our planet discovered thus far is as 'developed' as humans.
Snakes breed, they eat, they poop, they drink, and hide, and they sleep. That's the basic life of a snake. Survival is the key, in the wild they're afraid of being consumed by whatever that comes along (which could mean another snake). I've housed young corns together for awhile yes, but once they start getting bigger they get their own houses, just for the fact that its easier to monitor them that way. It's easier to see who shed when, which regurged, who soaked in the water dish...that sort of thing.
...Just my 2 cents. :shrugs:
Jimmy Johnson
I understand about the cons of houseing together, and thank everyone whos giving good advice on this subject, that was just my opintion.
And about the temps, I have a tempature reader with a small round end on a cord that I move around the tank, such as under dif spots of aspen, under the light, and in the air. Theres a cool side @ about 75 and a warm side at about 85.
I understand about the cons of houseing together, and thank everyone whos giving good advice on this subject, that was just my opintion.
And about the temps, I have a tempature reader with a small round end on a cord that I move around the tank, such as under dif spots of aspen, under the light, and in the air. Theres a cool side @ about 75 and a warm side at about 85.
GillyMonster
Mouse killer
All the reading I did none of them said not to have two snakes together,I guess I have to buy another tank. :shrugs:
Jimmy Johnson
Old Timer
hmmm
I wasn't going to respond because I thought you would think this is just an attack on you. it really isn't.
Just trying to point out the problems to new keepers.
If you understand the cons of housing together why would you ever recommend it?
Which is it?
is there a temperature gradient as stated in the top quote or are the temps the same as stated in the bottom quote.
Like I said before..just because you think things are great for your snakes and you haven't had problems, yet, it just isn't a good idea to recommend co-habitation, especially to new keepers. And of course it's the new keepers who ask.
I wasn't going to respond because I thought you would think this is just an attack on you. it really isn't.
Just trying to point out the problems to new keepers.
LeeC said:
If you understand the cons of housing together why would you ever recommend it?
Which is it?
is there a temperature gradient as stated in the top quote or are the temps the same as stated in the bottom quote.
Like I said before..just because you think things are great for your snakes and you haven't had problems, yet, it just isn't a good idea to recommend co-habitation, especially to new keepers. And of course it's the new keepers who ask.
Annihilation-
New member
i think you may be, in a manner of speaking, short changing snakes, along with other animals. saying that a snake cannot feel a liking toward a person or another animal is very rash...if you think about it all animals that have a self contious mind of their own have a compasity to trust and individual or another animal...and if they can trust, than they are not far from liking...think of your best friend, your wife or a close family memeber. do you trust them? i would hope you do. take this example... Mike gets a one week old hatchling cornsnake...he hold is two to three times a week and each time he holds is for several hours, just letting the snake roam around his room with him watching, or just going all over himself...at this point in time the snake is young and is going to be a tad stressed by the whole situation...after all...its suroundings are several hundred, if not thousand times larger than it, including mike himself. if the snake starts to get scared by something mike picks the snake up and holds it in its hands and calms it down. this may not seem like much but it makes a major differance further down the road. brain size does matter, but keep in mind a snakes brain grows with them...larger brain allows for more ability to think, not so much reason, but to think and learn. years go by with mike and his snake. by now the snake is only relaxed and comfortable when mike is holding it or when it is in its viv. if someone else trys to hold the snake it usualy stresses out and trys to escape and return to mike. this is because over the years, starting from its childhood, the snake has learned everything about mike...his smell, his feel, the vibrations his vocal cords make, the way he looks and how he holds him...the snake has learned to trust mike, it knows that it over all of the time that the snake has been with the snake that mike has not harmed or tried to harm it and has took good care of it and reassured the snake in times where it was not to sure of its saftey. this trust can be looked at many ways. the way i see it. is that its almost like a friendship. alot of your friends will do the same thing for you, as mike does for his snake. and that leads to a trust. this trust is not limited to just owner/pet, it has been well documented thoughout the animal kingdom with odd matched animals...cats and dogs living in the same home who spend most of their time together...there is no reason why they should, its a large house with plenty of room but they still stay together...there is an old couple who have a cat that is friends with a crow...the cat goes out in the back yard and the crow will come over and they will play fight eachother and such, the crow could easily just fly away, and the cat could just kill the crow...but they both have a trust in one another that neither will harm the other. so what is there to say that two snakes cannot become trusting in one another if they have been together for a long time, im not saying that it is wise to house them together, and im am also not saying it is wrong...it is up to your personal choise for that. what i am saying though is dont see these animals as one track, simple minded animals, they are not much unlike ourselfs, just we are cursed with reasoning and higher though process, which have their advantages and downfalls, but thats a whole different topic.