It's just corn snakes!

[Tula_Montage]

I 100% understand the concept of supply and demand, and I questioned the prices of lav bloods with that in mind. Lavenders and bloodreds are slowly starting to have "common" status, and we all know everyone and their dawg has lavender bloodred hets in some form... so why the silly price tag?

I don't like the word bored thats being thrown about. Thats really not how I feel or how I wanted others to think I felt. I don't think you can get bored of corns and their many variants, but you can begin to think that thier care and husbandry is predicatble, or non advanced.

 

[batwrangler]

IMO Being an experienced or advanced snake hobbyist means trying and failing with many different species. You cannot claim to be an expert if all you have kept are corns? This is what I do not understand.

Experienced/advanced/expert covers a lot of ground.

I agree that it would be foolish to call oneself an advanced herpetologist (professional or amateur) if all one ever worked with was corns, but many advanced/experienced/expert people pick a single narrow field and go deeply into it.

If I spent the next few years raising, reading about, and studying cornsnakes, breeding them successfully, coaxing non-feeders to eat, recognizing and solving health issues, and staying up to date on the progress of their husbandry and advanced cornsnake genetics, I'd have no problem calling myself (or anyone else who does the same) an advanced/experienced/expert keeper of cornsnakes.

I think the level of commitment is what distinguishes the advanced keeper, the amount of time involved distinguishes the experienced keeper, and the amount of knowledge garnered and exchanged distinguishes the expert keeper.

I don't think variety of species alone makes one a better keeper: a person could have a postage stamp collection of wide ranging species and keep them poorly, or an immense collection of one species and raise them well. I'd admire the specialist more in that situation.

That's a false dilemma, of course, but saying that a maintain general collection is more worthwhile than a maintaining a specialized collection is comparing apples to oranges. Each has its own goals and merits. Which you choose depends on where your passions lie.

 

[Spartan66]

Good topic. I don't really have anything to add that hasnt already been said by someone. but, I agree with both sides. I prefer colubrids ( only cause I don't have the guts to risk cobras and rattlesnakes ) but the main thing to me is that the reptile hobby continues...as long as you're keepin herps and enjoying whatever species you choose to have. It's all ok in my book. Do what you love....simple as that. just my two cents. :cheers:

 

[Duff]

One thing that pops into my head with this discussion. Keeping harder species (care-wise) is more exciting because there isn't as much info out there on them. To you, the thrill is to be able to figure out how to make them thrive without really knowing how to do that. It may just be me, but isn't that the same as people who get blasted for getting corns without really knowing what they need to thrive? Yes, I know corns can be researched much more thouroughly and completely, but the point I'm making is it's not much different getting a corn (or easy) snake without knowing all you should as getting a more "advanced" species without knowing all you should. If you aren't sure how to ensure it's best survival, isn't it irresponsible to get it, whether the info can be easily found or not? Personally, I don't have any desire to experiment on a living creature and hope I get it right. If not, it dies and I try again?? No thanks.

I have no interest in others thinking I'm more or less cool based on what snakes I have, which is kinda the tone this thread has to me. But I could be wrong.

 

[desertanimal]

Keeping a difficult species would be too time consuming and would ultimately lead to me not liking the animal.

Right now in my life, I have a lot going on with school. I just defended my dissertation proposal on Tuesday (and passed--hurray!) and Wednesday, I thought, "I wonder when the snakes last ate." For some of them it had been 2 and a half weeks. All I've done with them for the last two weeks is refill their water when needed. No eating, no pooping, so no cleaning was necessary. I like to spend lots of time with them when I have it, and I love that if I don't have it, I don't even have to remember to feed them and they'll be just fine. The latter part is one of the things that makes them SO enjoyable for me. They're not picky and I can give them as much or as little attention as I have time for. I DEFINITELY don't want a demanding reptile. When I get to a time in my life where I want a demanding pet again, I'll go back to keeping seahorses before getting a difficult snake anyday (captive bred only, of course).

You've said that people don't want to leave their comfort zone. Why would they? It's a hobby, not a career, not a personal improvement venture. I don't keep corns to do anything my best. I keep my corns for the same reason that people watch TV--to relax after devoting my time and energy to learning, expanding my horizons, and pushing myself to be better at and know more about what I do as an academic. No one thinks about leaving their comfort zone when watching TV unless they are a film or TV critic, or a director, or an actor, or a sociocultural anthropologist. Most people watch TV solely because it's fun and relaxing.

I've been thinking about this a lot lately. I've been thinking about how much I like what I do for a job and how intense some people get about their hobbies, and how I just never get intense about my hobbies in that way. For some people the hobby is home improvement, for some, model aircraft flying, for some, being Dolly Parton fans, and for others, finding and figuring out how to meet herpetelogical husbandry challenges. And I think that's because most people need to direct their passion and intensity somewhere, and some people can't do that with their jobs, so they do it with their hobbies instead. And for SOME of those people, their hobby eventually becomes their job and they jump thereby into the other category! I pour myself completely into my job/career, and if I lived somewhere where I could go to the beach every day for relaxation, I probably wouldn't have any hobbies at all, because I wouldn't need 'em.

 

[toyah]

Would you not rather keep endangered species... something thats extremely difficult to keep and breed, and feel a complete sense of satisfaction just getting it to eat nevermind reproduce? You can own hundreds, even thousands of corns snakes in your lifetime and never gain any more experience in dealing with snakes other than knowing how to care for a corn snake. IMO you gain experience of keeping snakes through keeping different species and really challenging yourself. Whats your opinion?

Keeping pets isn't simply about a challenge. It's a hobby - it's fun. But yes, I believe keeping (and breeding) corns is a challenge in its own right. The range of pattern and colour morphs provides its own challenge too. Boelans, the example you give, are difficult to breed - but once it's been done, it's done. Now it's a case of simply following the instructions given, once the animals are in condition to breed. What's the challenge in that? There's more skill and challenge involved in selectively breeding a perfect Miami corn snake (for which there is no instruction leaflet provided) then there is in just churning out any species of snake that has been bred before.

People don't get a cat, then once they've managed to keep it alive for six months feel they should dump it off on someone and buy a Pallas Cat or something else more unusual and harder to keep. Why should it be expected with snakes?

 

[loxocemus]

Keeping pets isn't simply about a challenge. It's a hobby - it's fun. But yes, I believe keeping (and breeding) corns is a challenge in its own right. The range of pattern and colour morphs provides its own challenge too. Boelans, the example you give, are difficult to breed - but once it's been done, it's done. Now it's a case of simply following the instructions given, once the animals are in condition to breed. What's the challenge in that? There's more skill and challenge involved in selectively breeding a perfect Miami corn snake (for which there is no instruction leaflet provided) then there is in just churning out any species of snake that has been bred before.

People don't get a cat, then once they've managed to keep it alive for six months feel they should dump it off on someone and buy a Pallas Cat or something else more unusual and harder to keep. Why should it be expected with snakes?

theres no such thing as following instructions for boeleni, many many have tried and failed (mating but no ovulation bizarre ranges of cycling etc etc), same with drymarchon which i tried and tried and only suceeded once, corns are and always will be a beginners species in many wonderful colours but a starter none the less, there are many species that have no care guides no previous sucesses, corns are the reptile worlds sucess story hence thier global appeal to beginners and pros alike.

and why il always have at least one

rgds

Edward

 

[susang]

So many people already said corn snakes are challenging enough, I agree. I won a leopard gecko at a show a couple weeks ago I had never held or touched a gecko before. I embraced the challenge of the gecko, hate the meal worms though. Read a lot the first week asked a lot of questions, still have a lot of questions. I thrilled at seeing him eat yesterday. I'm in awe of my corn snakes and the gecko.
It is a challenge for me to keep rodents, hate rodents in fact I am afraid of them, will probably never own a rat. Someone recently said to me "everyone thinks breeding mice is easy but it isn't." It is a challenge.
Anyone who would meet me at a show, where ever would tell you I am afraid of getting bitten by anything let alone a snake. I am still over coming that challenge having been bitten a couple weeks ago.
At the show I fell in love with a beauty snake, would love to have one even if it gave me a little love bite when I held it. Maybe someday.
I guess what I'm saying I don't need a retic to be challenged, I want my passion to be the snakes, and gecko (maybe some girl geckos) I have.
:-offtopic I used to teach quilting and I would tell my students if all you learn to make is a log cabin block you will never be bored. I lost my passion for quilting, because I was trying more and doing more. The stress was to much, now I'm planning a log cabin quilt.
I guess corn snakes are like roots they are a solid foundation, a challenge to breed and yet not stressful. This is just me everyone needs different challenges in their life. You are so young Elle, maybe if I had really started to have herps at your age I would want more, but I'm happy now with what I have. susan

 

[Tula_Montage]

I completely understand Susan, and your right, I am young, and mychildlike excitable mentality shows through. I adore getting new snakes and facing new challenges and keeping things nobody else really wants to keep. I know that will change, in fact I have already chosen the path I wish to follow in regards to my snakes. I know in a few years from now... perhaps as much as a decade I will be settled with my chosen species or should I say genus, but until then its all about discovering what else is out there

 

[loxocemus]

I completely understand Susan, and your right, I am young, and mychildlike excitable mentality shows through. I adore getting new snakes and facing new challenges and keeping things nobody else really wants to keep. I know that will change, in fact I have already chosen the path I wish to follow in regards to my snakes. I know in a few years from now... perhaps as much as a decade I will be settled with my chosen species or should I say genus, but until then its all about discovering what else is out there

childlike and excitable no comment....still wont touch a tarantula though, and no we cant have one.

e.

 

[Hawkin']

To each his own.I think it's cool that she wants to be challenged with breeding "harder" species.Thankfully,someone had that same idea with cornsnakes years ago and now we all have them.Just about everything has been learned about keeping them in captivity successfully,just keep to the basic plan and you'll do fine with them.Their care requirements are so well known that you get newbie posts"HELP,my hot side temp dropped to 79 degrees,will my snake be dead tomorrow"( not that bad,but you know what I mean!)Breeding them is another story.Some of these guys are coming out with some crazy morphs,with more and better to come.Myself I think the only corn better looking than an Okeetee is a banded Okeetee!All the blood red-butter-stripe-lavender-cinder-Orville Redenbaker corns don't do anything for me,but alot of people goes nuts over them.That's cool with me and I respect all the time and money they put into them,it's what they like.My corns are just a hobby for me.My hawks and the sport of falconry are more of a "lifestyle".I work extra hours to get money for it and plan my vacations around hunting my birds.If I had one word to describe myself,I'd say "falconer".I'm sure some people on here would choose "herper" or "snake breeder" for themselves.I forgot who started this thread,but I don't think she was trying to belittle or put anyone down for keeping corns,but I bet if you asked her she would say "snake breeder" or something close to that.

 

[Tinycritters]

!All the blood red-butter-stripe-lavender-cinder-Orville Redenbaker corns

that just gave me an image of a popcorn bag full of little hatchlings for some reason!

 

[Hawkin']

that just gave me an image of a popcorn bag full of little hatchlings for some reason!

Don't leave 'em in the microwave to long,nothing worse than burnt hatchlings! :crazy02:

 

[toyah]

corns are and always will be a beginners species in many wonderful colours but a starter none the less

I don't think referring to them as a starter is quite doing them justice. They're an animal that has been kept and bred extensively enough that they have a large following, a lot of information available, and they're distinctly suitable enough captives that they can be kept alive quite happily even in very unsuitable conditions. But look how difficult GTPs were considered to keep - and especially to breed - a few years back. And now there's enough information that really, if someone wanted one as a first snake, it would be quite possible to keep them and even maybe breed them if they tried.

The information on other species won't come as quickly as it has for some (such as GTPs and corns) because they're simply not as interesting to such a lot of people, and so not many people really care on the best way to keep them. But it will come, and right now Elle knows the temperatures that Boelens have to be dropped to in order to get them to mate despite never owning one, so some information is out there - the rest will follow. Once one person has results, then the information follows through quickly enough, that's the nature of things.

 

[Lennycorn]

My question is, would you be happy owning only corn snakes? I know it would drive me insane only keeping corns. The same humdrum day in day out. Predictable feeding routines, insanely easy breeding methods (to the point where even the most novice keeper can "accidentally" breed corns).........

I didn't read the whole thread and I believe the above is the root of your post.
That being said. I only have two corn. If I could (space, time and money being an issue) I would like at least two more but... with my life style as it is now and being the person that I am, I am contented with what I have. I have other things that challenges me for now and do not need the exotic for now.

 

[loxocemus]

I don't think referring to them as a starter is quite doing them justice. They're an animal that has been kept and bred extensively enough that they have a large following, a lot of information available, and they're distinctly suitable enough captives that they can be kept alive quite happily even in very unsuitable conditions. But look how difficult GTPs were considered to keep - and especially to breed - a few years back. And now there's enough information that really, if someone wanted one as a first snake, it would be quite possible to keep them and even maybe breed them if they tried.

The information on other species won't come as quickly as it has for some (such as GTPs and corns) because they're simply not as interesting to such a lot of people, and so not many people really care on the best way to keep them. But it will come, and right now Elle knows the temperatures that Boelens have to be dropped to in order to get them to mate despite never owning one, so some information is out there - the rest will follow. Once one person has results, then the information follows through quickly enough, that's the nature of things.

#

re the low boeleni low temp. elle knows this because of the internet (where a lot of people become "experts" iv found) not due to widespread boeleni success (last i that i heard there were 2 true captive breedings, 1 in the usa and 1 in idonesia/duncan i believe, ross/marzec claimed success to i believe but no info to back it up, chiras has a group and may crack them soon, bushmaster also has a group, a group was cooled at 8c this year but no success though mating was observed.

re chondro as a possible first snake due thier widespread breeding by other keepers, i dont think is true as people breeding these are using thier experience, often decades worth to produce them, id be very surprised to find a complete beginner produced chondros just because others post thier accumulated knowledge online. i think its a mistake to rely on information as a replacement for experience, reading a care sheet doesnt give u the authors skill. just less likely to kill the thing, and that is the beauty of corns practically anyone can care for a corn, thier very forgiving and make the ideal starters and are easy way to gain skill and experience. i think the fact theyve been herpers first snakes for 30 years+ shows that they do make an ideal starter and should be recommended as such.

i looked up those pallas/manul cats u mentioned, very cool, very bobcat like.

Rgds

Edward