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Lavender/Ghost

A

andys999

New member
Has anyone bred the above cross - lavender/ghost?

I will be looking to breed a male lavender to female ghost next season.
Obviously the F1 generation will be all hets

and breeding the F2 generation brother to sister will give a 1:64 chance of a Lavender /ghost

I am curious if this combination has been achieved yet?

If so, does anyone have a pic?

Cheers

Andy
 
You'ld have the best luck checking Rich's site (SerpenCo). I know he's produced amel lavenders and hypo lavenders. I'll bet he's tried for an aneryth/ghost lavender, but perhaps those combinations don't "mix" to produce a new morph.
 
Close...

Rich posted a pic of a cornsnake that is both Anery and Lavender. Based on that picture, they do look quite different than either morph.

I see no reason to believe that hypo would not have an effect, since it obviously takes effect in the presence of lavender and anery genes.

---

You'll have a heck of a time busting through that 1 in 64 barrier. The way you're going now, keeping any F2s to continue breeding will not prove very helpful, as they will only be possible hets...

If you really really want to produce that triple-combination, breed a hypo lav to a ghost instead. The F1 would be Hypos, double-het for Anery and Lavender, reducing your odds to a more manageable 1 in 16. :)
 
That's an interesting thought about using the hypo-lav instead

Re the f2s only being possible hets - I'm not arguing with you cos you're the main man on genetics
But
When I use corn prog and key in lavender male x ghost female it shows the offspring as definite hets for both lavender and ghost.
Perhaps I'm missing something :confused:

But I still prefer the idea of using hypo lav x ghost and having a 1 in 16 chance

Andy
 
I think you're doing something wrong in the program, or I didn't explain it clearly enough. ;)

Look at what comes out of a het by het cross: you get two types of offspring: mutants and 66% possible hets. With me so far?

When doing triple hets, you get the same thing with the 3 independent genes... everything that isn't showing a given mutation is 66% possible het for that mutation.

For example, say you breed your triple hets together and in your F2, you get a hypo lavender and a ghost. Just realize that the hypo lavender is only 66% POSSIBLE het for anery... both of his parents were only het for Anery, thus since he is not showing Anery, he is 66% poss het.

By the same token, the ghost is only 66% POSSIBLE het for lavender.

(If you're lost, don't proceed till you've figured out the above...) ;)

---

Now, say you breed those two above together... if either one--or both of them--is not het for its "possible" trait, you will get Hypos, Hypo Lavs, and/or Ghosts, but you will never get that triple combo. How many years will you breed the two together before you figure out that it's not just bad luck, but one of them is not het? ;)

Eventually, you would be able to get a pair of 2-mutant snakes het for the third thing, but you then have to spend 2-3 years raising them up before you can even find out if that's the one you can breed for your "triple" outcome.

Assuming you go the "possible het" route, you would be best off breeding the F2s to a known mutant or het for that other "possible" trait so you would know for sure what you are dealing with. (This adds another year to the time it's going to take you to get there... UGH!)

Meanwhile, you have the F2s that can still produce the triple morph for you, although that's a longshot, too.

But I still prefer the idea of using hypo lav x ghost and having a 1 in 16 chance

Exactly. It's not only better odds, it's a lot easier to figure out what the heck is going on. ;)
 
I see where andy could get confused. Going by the corn progeny predictor it clearly shows that an f1 generation cross of a lavender & ghost would result in 100% normals triple het for the above traits. Possible hets arent even a viable offspring with that software.

Unless Im also using it wrong.

-Kev
 
Thanks Kev

At least I know now that it's not just me that's cracking up

But at the end of the day I'm convinced now that using serpwidgets route of using Hypo lavender and crossing that to a ghost is not only a quicker way of reaching the end result, it's also a little easier to follow :rolleyes:

I just hope the end result is worth it - he he

Andy
 
For the record

This is the result that my cornsnake progeny predictor gives

Male is, Lavender
Female is, Ghost

Offspring are predicted to be...
100.00%, Het for Ghost, Het for Lavender

Andy
 
Ghost, Lavender

Correct me, Serpwidgets, if I'm wrong, but another--and cheaper, if you cannot afford a Hypo-Lavender--way of getting a Ghost, Lavender in the F2 generation would be to cross a Normal, het for ghost/het for lavender to a Ghost. The F1 generation, according to "Mick's Cornsnake Progeny Predictor," would have a 1:8 chance for one or more of the off-spring being a ghost, het for lavender. IF one was successful in getting a male and female off-spring to raise and breed together, then, theoretically, your Ghost, het for lavender x Ghost, het for lavender would produce a 1:4 chance of getting a Ghost, lavender.

Of course, the F1 generation would also include a Ghost, het for ziltch, zero, nada. If you pick the wrong two ghost off-spring, or make a good pick on one and a bad pick on the other, then you may spend a few years chasing your tail before a Ghost, lavender appears, if at all.

In the long run, it would be cheaper to find someone--like Rich or Kathy--who might have a Ghost, Lavender to sell and buy it, or a pair.

Good luck.
 
Sounds good to me

hmmmm anyone hapen to have a couple of spare normals, het for ghost/lavender that they don't want?

I wonder if such a mythical beast exists, especially on this side of the Atlantic?

Andy
 
I wouldn't say "wrong."

cross a Normal, het for ghost/het for lavender to a Ghost.
Click to expand...
You are starting with an F1 at that point. Isn't that cheating? ;)

The first problem IMO is that you're (probably) not going to find that triple het.

B, I don't like the idea of possible hets, too many holdbacks and breeding trials... how many would you need to hold back to be "sure" that you have the right one? ;)

And 3, you still have to wait till the F2 to produce what you want, you've just transferred the "problems" to the F1 instead.

That's just my personal preference, but I think you'd end up taking as long to go that route as you would to produce the "1 in 16" offspring in the F2.

However, as an alternative, if you cannot afford a Hypo Lavender, a Lavender het hypo would also do the same job. This would make 50% of your F1s Hypos, which would be known het for Anery/Lav. :)
 
Mythical Beasts....

Well, I've done a lot of studying of mythical beasts in my day, but that's beside the point.

As for a Normal corn, het for ghost and lavender, I just happen to have one here in my collection, thank you very much. His daddy was a lavender and his momma was a ghost from ghost parents.

I also have a ghost female from ghost parents. Perhaps I should try to put them together sometime and see what would happen five or six years down the road? I have wondered if a ghost, lavender would even be recognizable? Surely there's one lurking on Rich's "Lavender Corns" photo page somewhere and we just don't recognize it.


Gregg
 
I hope you get to see that pic...

IMO they should be obvious. That's based only on the one pic I've seen, but it's a shade of light rootbeer/cream soda color that I've never seen in any other Anery. And it doesn't look like any Lavender pics I've seen.

I just happen to have one here in my collection, thank you very much.
Click to expand...
Heh heh, figures someone would have one and actually know about it. ;) IMO it's still not something that's easy to find.

If you can find a ghost het for lavender, or a hypo lav het anery, you could be in business a lot faster. :)
 
Ghost, lavender?

Hi Serpwidgets,

Yeah, I guess it should be obvious, but...

I'm not sure I would be able to spot a ghost, lavender, unless it was pointed out to me.

Why?

Because: I believe that there has been so much cross breeding going on that one would be hard pressed to guess the genetic make-up of any given cornsnake, unless a breeder kept very tight records.

I picked up a little Silver Queen Ghost from Serpenco this year and what a beauty he is now. When I got him he had a greyish ground color with sort of brown saddles. At first I thought, "Dang, this is just another ghost (kind of a light brownish on silver, like you see in most pictures). What's so special 'bout these?"

After a couple of sheds his background color has lightened to a more silver, or very light grey, almost white, and the saddles--I swear--are purple. I had my son look at him outside in the sunshine, since my son's eyes are younger and better than mine, and I asked him, "What color would you say these spots are?" He said, "They look purple to me."

Well, If I had to pick out which one(s) was/were the ghost, lavenders that Rich has on his Lavender Corns site, I would be hard pressed. They are all purplish, as if they were photographed through a blue filter. Lavenders on any other photos I've seen seem to be a very light anerythristic. I see very little 'lavender' color, if any.

If you haven't guessed yet, I have never seen a live lavender, adult or neonate. One thing I can be somewhat sure of is that Rich has done a lot of playing around with genetics since he began. Who's to say my little silver queen hasn't got some purple hidden away in him somewhere, but Rich? Do I have a ghost, lavender? No, I don't think so. I don't think so because Rich sold him to me as a Silver Queen Ghost, not as a Ghost, lavender. So, I wouldn't know a ghost, lavender unless you showed one to me.

For the same reason, I have a male Normal, het for ghost/het for lavender. I believe it is what it is because I got it from Kathy. Is it what it is said to be? Kathy says so.

This is why one wants to buy from respectable breeders and not from just anyone without checking first.

Now, what was my point?

Dang, it's left me. I haven't got a clue. Too many brain cells burned, I guess.

Well, it's been fun talking to you Serpwidgets. Keep up the good work.


Gregg

:D :cool:


Oh, and 1:64 can best be seen with a pair of dice. Any particular combination of numbers on a pair of dice is a 1:64 probability, isn't it? It's been twenty years since I had my statistics class. So, squeeze me while I go practice my craps-shooting.:confused:
 
I'm not sure I would be able to spot a ghost, lavender, unless it was pointed out to me.
Click to expand...
Same here, if I were at a show or something. But if I knew one might be hatching, I'd know more/less what to look for, and I'd look a lot more closely. ;)

I guess a lot depends on what the F1s are... if they're both hypos then you don't have to play guessing games with the hypo gene. Likewise, if the parents are Anery/Lav het for Hypo, it should be pretty easy to see the differences. But then the closest I've been to that situation is sorting out anery, amel, and snow (as far as I know, anyway, hehe)

After a couple of sheds his background color has lightened to a more silver, or very light grey, almost white, and the saddles--I swear--are purple.
Click to expand...
Sounds kinda like my Charcoal Ghost, except it's his background instead of the saddles. IMO it's probably blood under the skin providing the purple tones. Whatever it is, it's pretty. :)

Heh, since you mentioned mythical beasts, I figure you might be familiar with D&D dice, which include 8-sided. But with 6-sided dice, 2 and 12 are each 1:36 against. :)
 
andy, i have this project going on.
i used an anery het hypo lav female, to a male hypo lav het anery.
i only got 6 eggs, these are 2007s, i sold the pair after the breeding.
i got, 3 normals, 1 anery and then at WORST a pair of ghost that will be het lavender. i still feel that the male could be a lavender ghost, but wont knopw until i breed them in 2010. he has lavender eyes, he is much much lighter than she is, lighter than any ghost i have ever seen. she is a much darker kind, so i'm pretty sure she is a ghost.
its a long old project, but i'll get there soon.
and the funny thing is, i live 70-80 miles from you lol,
(no, they are not for sale lol)
 
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