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live mice ok?

I don't think "It goes to the same place" really jives with this discussion, Sergeant (I mean that with respect since you outrank me.. :grin01: Please don't make me push- I've been a civilian for nearly a year..) The point is what's best for the snake. As I said before, I disagree with feeding live for the reasons stated.
I wouldn't even call the process you describe as feeding live. If you thump a mouse and don't feed it to your snake, do you really think he'd pull through? I would call that prekilled. As for saying some snakes won't take dead mice, that's another story as well, but by saying that you're kind of implying that you'd prefer they did. If so, I completely agree with you.
 
sargeoif said:
Is it really that obvious attackturlte, I was talking to you it all depends on the owner, who cares if someone wants to feed their snakes live animals, its either the snake kills and eats the food or it comes already kill and all you do is thaw it out. It all goes to the same place so... who cares people.

My first sentence took into account that there are snakes that will only eat live. This is a corn snake forum. The majority of snakes on this forum are captive bred and a strong portion of members try their hand at breeding. Most of the cornsnakes on this forum will eat f/t.

Bri posted a question and people are responding. If you dont care if people feed live then why did you post on this thread? If you dont care if people feed live, why do you care if people dont like to feed live? I told Bri in the end of my post it is his choice. Most of the others who responded to Bri had something constructive to say.

"Lol, dude face it some snakes will ONLY eat live animals, its just their preferance."
 
Yeah I'm with attack turtle. None of us said they'll only eat F/T in fact most of us DID say that some of them would only eat live.

But hey sargeiof if you want us to stop caring about other people snakes then we should just shut down the board.
And I expect to see nary a "help me" topic from you ever again since you think we shouldn't care.

;)
 
live mice

i think i will just stick to dead mice but will if there is an occasion will a captive bred snake that has never seen a live mouse befour even know how to constrict? or at least do it sucsessfully but i guess it doesnt matter cause im probobly too squeemish too ever feed a snake live mice and dead miceare just as good as alive mice and better cause they never bite
 
Hehe, but if that was the case then people would read the faq and we wouldn't need to discuss this now would we? ;)
 
sargeoif said:
That would be sweet is clouds was made of cotton candy though lol.
what are you talking about and i have read the faqsand it just says like stuff about the cornsnakes.com and nothing about corn snakes
 
bri123 said:
i think i will just stick to dead mice but will if there is an occasion will a captive bred snake that has never seen a live mouse befour even know how to constrict? or at least do it sucsessfully but i guess it doesnt matter cause im probobly too squeemish too ever feed a snake live mice and dead miceare just as good as alive mice and better cause they never bite
There probably is no occasion where a snake will not know what to do with a live mouse. They never learn to constrict, it's just something they do because it's instinct. There are some snakes with special needs (being blind or even missing their tongue or whatever else) who may find it difficult (depending on their disability) to find the mouse, in which case it would be even more dangerous. But even though that is the case, your better off to feed FT if your snake will take it. Your better off to condition it to eating FT if it won't now also. Should you need help with how to get him to eat it, let us know. My bet is that he won't hesitate in the least when hungry though, snakes know a mouse when they smell one, and most corn snakes are pigs! :grin01:
 
bri123 said:
what are you talking about and i have read the faqsand it just says like stuff about the cornsnakes.com and nothing about corn snakes

I will risk anwering you again, but here goes. Most people would have put this under "health and feeding problems" where you would have found a stickie with most of your answers. You put this in the "feeders' thread which pertains to mice. Also towards the begining of this thread, someone did ask you about shedding schedule. :shrugs:
 
It is to my understanding (and I could be wrong), but over time, if snakes are captive bred long enough and don't constrict, won't they eventually lose that instinct and no longer be able to or know how to constrict?
 
Skazzle said:
It is to my understanding (and I could be wrong), but over time, if snakes are captive bred long enough and don't constrict, won't they eventually lose that instinct and no longer be able to or know how to constrict?


I don't know about that... I feed F/T and a few of my snakes still constrict the heck out of the already dead mouse. :shrugs:
 
I have never heard of anything like this. Somebody correct me if Im wrong but I haven't. Instinct is instinct though and although you may find the odd snake that will never constrict, Im sure most would even if they have never had to before. You can clip a bird's flight feathers from when it breaks the egg till when it's 10 years old and the month you let that thing grow out those primary's, I bet it will fly. (be it clumsy or not)

Dont take this rant as a blast if you feed live. I dont care if you do, whatever your reason. I 100% understand there are snakes that wont eat unless it's live. If your reading this though and your snake will take f/t and your feeding live, just ask youself why.

My thinking is if you have a snake that will be on f/t for it's entire life, what does it matter if it can grab a live mouse and constrict it to death? I think that there is a stigma with a snake. That you should keep it's ability to be wild intact. Like it has to be able to survive on its own if it escapes your house or something. My cat is declawed and spad. She would never be able to live outside of my apartment. Fixing her drastically changed her behavior. Had we left that alone and we let her go in the wild, it would be much easier for her to go feral. Declawing her front was the last straw on any real chance she would ever have at catching prey. Even if I didnt fix her and declaw her though, I wouldnt expect her to take down small songbirds just to make sure she can do it, just in case she will forget. I wouldn't test her killing ability with small rodents, just checking if she can. I think a lot of live feeding in our hobby is brought on by this. By this want to keep your snake able to eat live. I see it with people i work with. I work in a business, 100% white collar and Im the only one with a snake.. I tell them I have this snake and that she is just so nice. I never saw myself with a snake and I have had a lot of pets before and this is the first one that has never ever bit me or shown aggression. She is nicer then my cat! Then they find out I give it f/t food or I prekill my snake's mice if I am out of frozens and my coworkers say my snake is sissy. They call her pansy. We joke about it but there is this aura that seems to follow snakes that I feel we who actually have snakes need to do the best we can to break. I don't see how it can help this hobby. This association with an animal that can always take its own food and is independent. I think it frightens a lot of people who could be snake owners off. I recently read that somewhere, I think on this board, that 10 years ago, f/t feeding was common, and that now it is the norm. I really hope this is true and that it becomes almost unheard of to feed a snake a live mouse. I think snake keeping could really explode if this assumption that a snake should be able to hold its own is no longer associated with snakes, mainly corns and balls. I have been having these thoughts for a while and meant to start a thread but it just felt appropriate to put here. Sorry for hijacking this thread.
 
Hi attackturtle,

I am the one who said that f/t food was common 10 years ago and now is the norm.
I am a soft hearted idiot and never would have gotten my first snake in 1995 if I could not find frozen food. Back then there were 2 places that sold frozen in town so finding it was easy. I belonged to a herp club and most of the members used f/t food as well.
 
hmm

There were several mentions of watching closely and making sure nothing bad happens when feeding live. Well...You are not fast enough...simple as that.
Place a mouse in front of your snake.
When the snake strikes, pull the mouse out of the way before it can grab it. Oh yeah, you must also somehow do this while standing there watching the animals with your hands outside the container. Obviously this just isn't going to happen.

The reason I mention this should be obvious but I will explain it anyway...That is exactly how quick the rodent can bite. In the same instant the snake bites the rodent, the rodent can bite the snake.
Sure, you might be able to stop a rodent from chewing your snake like the ones pictured, but that's not the point. It can only take ONE bite.
A quick bite can take out an eye...some of you don't think that's a problem but I sure as hell don't want a $40.00, $50.00, $70.00, $100.00 dollar snake maimed by a damn rodent.
Just as easily as that eye was put out, the tooth could have easily entered the brain or maybe the spine. And anyone who thinks a mouse or rat can't penetrate a snake's skin, with a bite, has never had a mouse bite through a fingernail or seen concrete and sheet metal chewed through by mice.
Yes, there are some instances where snakes won't take frozen/thawed and live needs to be used. In most of these instances a stunned or freshly killed rodent will work sufficiently.

Then of course, you hear the "well, they do it in the wild" argument...
As mentioned several times, above, the life expectancy of a snake in the wild is very low indeed.
I would be truly surprised if one out of every five hundred made it to adulthood.
It is only logical to surmise that some of these die due to bites from prey.

So, to repeat what has been said quite a few times...why risk it.
Is it really worth risking your snake just to watch it kill.
All of my snakes eat frozen/thawed and they have no problems constricting. Just wriggle a frozen/thawed mouse in front of them. They will constrict exactly the same as if it was live. You can't tell the difference. They bite, wrap their coils, search for the head and eat. Exactly the same.
and NO they do not loose the instinct to constrict. They are constrictors.
That would be like birds losing their instinct to fly because we keep them caged. They haven't yet now have they? And think about how long man has been keeping birds. Take your typical parrot...hand feed it as a baby it grows to love and trust you but you keep it's wings clipped for it's own safety and to keep it from ....flying away.
Guess what...when that parrot is twenty years old and you fail to clip it's wings it will fly. Might not be the prettiest flight but it will fly. It will not have "forgotten" how. It's muscles may need strengthening but it will know how to fly. It's a bird it will fly. How many generations have birds been kept in captivity?
A constrictor will know how to constrict. That's what they do.

look at it another way...you bought your snake, you may have even paid to have it shipped to you, you bought it's enclosure, heat pad, light, water bowl, hides, substrate, decorations, possibly even a few books and when it's time to feed you buy prey.
WHY would you want to risk that investment?
What if you had plans to breed the snake to help fund this great hobby.
WHY would you want to risk those investments AND any possible future income?

Now, there was a mention of pinkies and fuzzies which obviously can't do any damage but in keeping with my "why risk it" philosophy, wouldn't it make more sense to get them on frozen/thawed as soon as possible.

Oh yeah, to touch on one more thing...Snakes can't/don't get mites from mice.
Two different kinds of mites.
Simply coincidence that people have mice and snakes with mites at the same time.
 
Wow, when I got too busy with other forums and life situations and hadn't been back here for awhile I always thought of this site and the calm, docile one!!! LOL!

Everyone does realize they are arguing over comments from a 14year old right? No offense Bri, I see you as a valid hobbiest as someone who has been doing it for 40 years, you just have some maturing to do when it comes to facing something that is different from what you wanted to hear. It's life, it's growing up...take advice from those who have been in the hobby alot longer and search it out. True anyone can be wrong, but there is alot of wisdom in taking the time to learn where others went wrong so you don't have to end up learning the hard way.

Overall, I feel that you should fed f/t or at least prekilled. Not only the bite risk (a quick one to the eye and the eye can be done for, etc) but also for the parasite problems. 28 days frozen is going to kill off most if not all of those nasty things. And this is IMO, while there are some snakes that won't take dead prey, the number is small. I have seen WC corns, ratsnakes, and hognose take them the first time they were offered without a problem. Think about it, in the wild snakes are opportunistic eaters, if they find something dead, they will eat it...yes, they like to hunt, but mainly they like to have a full belly. IMO, most people who feed live, have never taken the time to switch the snake over to f/t. However, it is dependant upon the snake...I have two Saharan Sand Boas who haven't eaten since March; I got one to eat but the other two won't and they were all WC. So I will be trying live next week. See if that makes a difference...

However, with feeding live, I would only ever feed mice, never rats..the difference in damage that can be done between the two is astounding!

so the short of it is, feed live only if you must (actual must, depends on the snake, not on your time; you feed live because you don't have the time to thaw out a rat, you have too many snakes!), but feeding F/T is the way you should go.
 
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